Preferred water treatment calculator

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Throw into that equation the fact that if you're brewing at home, and you buy an RO, you can stop buying bottled drinking water.

Russ

 

[MagicMatt]

Throw into that equation the fact that if you're brewing at home, and you buy an RO, you can stop buying bottled drinking water.

This assumes 2 things:

1) You currently buy bottled drinking water
2) You want to drink RO water


I don't buy drinking water, I use the filtered water from my refrigerator. So I wouldn't be saving any money there.

And regularly drinking RO water is not something I would recommend to anyone. The health risks greatly outweigh the advantages. Drinking any type of demineralized water is not healthy over the long run.

 

[ajdelange]

The health risks greatly outweigh the advantages. Drinking any type of demineralized water is not healthy over the long run.

What are the health risks? I would assume that people who live in the Pacific Northwest, where the water is similar to RO, are subject to the same risks. Have the authorities warned them of these?

 

[MagicMatt]

What are the health risks? I would assume that people who live in the Pacific Northwest, where the water is similar to RO, are subject to the same risks. Have the authorities warned them of these?

Well first let me preface by saying that I know where I stand compared to you in regards to knowledge of water chemistry (IOW: I'm an idiot, you're a genius). I greatly look up to you (as well as Kai, Martin, et al) for the plethora of information y'all bring to the game. So please don't take my posts as anything more than face value, as I'm sure you can point out some fallacies in my arguments.


However, even though you may find some contradictory information online about the health risks/benefits of reverse osmosis water (as you can find contradictory information on any subject on the interent), it would seem that a great deal of information points to long term negative effects with consuming only demineralized water as a sole water source.

I've seen a World Health Organization study that revealed some of the health risks associated with drinking demineralized water. It included gastrointestinal problems, bone density issues, joint conditions, and cardiovascular disease. Removing the naturally occurring minerals also leaves the water nearly tasteless.

Also, according to the report RO systems leave the water acidic. This is apparently one of the primary reasons RO water is unhealthy, because removing the minerals often makes the water well below 7.0 pH. Drinking acidic water will not help maintain a healthy pH balance in the blood, which should be slightly alkaline from my understanding.

I've seen instances (depending on the source water and the specific RO system) with the pH ranging from about 3.0 to 7.0.

And I'm no doctor, but I've read that acidosis in the body is considered an underlying cause of most degenerative diseases, including cancer.

According to the WHO study, low mineral water increased diuresis (the production of urine by the kidneys) 20% on average and markedly increased the elimination of sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium and magnesium ions from the body.

Also, while reverse osmosis is effective for removing a variety of contaminants in water, the reverse osmosis membrane alone does not remove volatile organic chemicals, chlorine and chloramines, pharmaceuticals, and other synthetic chemicals found in municipal water. You'd need a multi-stage filtration media (activated carbon, etc) in order to remove the chlorine and certain pesticides. I understand this is a common addtional component of modern RO systems though.

So, while I'm sure many people drink RO water without much issue, it is still a cause for concern with me. I drink a lot of water daily (>100oz), so with increased intake comes increased risk.

Again, I'm sure I'm blowing all of this out of proportion in terms of other things I do that impart a greater health risk, and I realize that a normal diet should supplement most of the minerals lost from drinking RO water, but to each their own I suppose. To me, it isn't worth the risk. And coupled with the cost and waste of RO systems, it's just not something that fits my lifestyle. If I got one, I wouldn't use it for drinking water, which would increase the cost per use (and thus a longer ROI) if I only used it for say brewing and cooking.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts AJ!

 

[GotPushrods]

Fortunately, RO is not demineralized. Greatly reduced, but not devoid. That last few percent is what makes DI so corrosive.

 

[MaxStout]

Interesting article by WHO. Potential health effects aside, I simply don't like the flat taste of RO/DI water. I only use it for two things: brewing beer and making coffee (less mineral buildup in the coffee maker).

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Interesting article by WHO. Potential health effects aside, I simply don't like the flat taste of RO/DI water. I only use it for two things: brewing beer and making coffee (less mineral buildup in the coffee maker).

But we're talking about RO here, not RODI. Two very different beasts.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

We have customers with municipal tap water @ ~20 ppm TDS.

 

[MaxStout]

But we're talking about RO here, not RODI. Two very different beasts.

The WHO article didn't make that distinction, referring instead to "demineralized water," as an umbrella term to include both, and also distilled.

My point was more about taste, which applies to both RO and DI.

But thanks for the update!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Hmm. We rarely have anyone dislike the taste of RO. RODI water on the other hand, definitely is flat/odd tasting.

Very very easy to add minerals back into either - the amount added back in is typically controlled by a needle valve in the systems we deal with most frequently. We do this commonly for our commercial coffee-making customers.

 

[mabrungard]

RO water is not a health risk as long as the individual is also ingesting a healthy diet which replaces that ionic content. In the US, that is not typically a serious problem. However, if you are a milk and cheese product avoider, there is a better chance that you may not meet your calcium RDA. It can still be obtained in other forms.

As AJ mentions, there are plenty of people in the world that drink water that is equally or less mineralized than RO. I don't recall mass die-offs from this.

With regard to WHO concerns, getting safe drinking water to more people is a goal. RO is a wasteful treatment option and it is not in anyone's interest to advocate drinking pure RO. In fact, most municipal water systems that treat via RO, include a portion of their raw water in the water delivered to customers to protect the municipality's pipes, reduce treatment costs, and leave a little of the ionic content for the recipients.

While not ideal, there is no hazard to drinking RO.

 

[MagicMatt]

Thanks for the clarification Martin.

I guess my initial response a few posts back (where Buckeye regarded the additional savings by using RO systems for drinking water) was to that effect - namely that (as you pointed out) while it may not necessarily be hazardous to one's health, it's certainly not ideal. Especially when coupled with the water wasted IMO (both in cost and eco-mindedness).

But by all means, if one's tap water was so bad that drinking RO exclusively is the best option, I concur that with regular diet it is unlikely to pose a severe health risk. Sorry, not trying to fear monger!

We have customers with municipal tap water @ ~20 ppm TDS.

I don't own or operate a RO system, but I was under the impression that a quality RO system would get the TDS <5ppm? I could likely be very wrong, but to me that seems like a significant difference at trace levels (compared to say 805ppm vs 820ppm).

 

[MaxStout]

RO has its uses, such as brewing water, aquariums, etc. But it is not a one-size-fits-all solution for every use. Those who are in the business of selling RO systems will differ on this, because they have a pecuniary interest in promoting them for more uses. But RO for drinking water seems like overkill.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

But RO for drinking water seems like overkill.

Yeow - don't tell the gazillions of people with home drinking water systems!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I don't own or operate a RO system, but I was under the impression that a quality RO system would get the TDS <5ppm?

RO membranes remove a percentage of the feedwater contaminants - for purposes of discussion, this is usually represented by TDS. So the purity of the permeate ("RO water") depends in part upon how pure the feedwater is. We have customers with feedwater ranging from about 20 ppm to >2500 ppm TDS.

If you feed the permeate to an atmospheric (unpressurized) tank, and depending upon lots of variables, it might be reasonable to expect a 90% to 99% reduction in TDS. But if you send the permeate to a pressurized tank, as is typically the case for drinking water systems, the rejection (reduction in TDS) is significantly lower.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

pecuniary

Nice - I expanded my vocabulary today!

 

[philipCT]

Uh huh, huuuuh, huh. He said pecuniary. Uh huh.