Portable RO Water Filters

[d_striker]

I'm in the market for a portable, affordable RO water filter for my garage brewing setup. My 3-tier, vertical brew tree stand is almost done and I want to be able to build my water from scratch.

I know that RO water filters are slow and I'm fine filtering the water I need before hand. My top vessel/HLT is a keggle and I need around 8-9 gallons per batch. I envision collecting the RO water in this top vessel.

Are the ebay RO water filters like this one any good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Mini-Reverse-Osmosis-50GPD-Water-System-4stage-/280500949107#vi-content

 

[jetmac]

IMHO 50GPD is kind of low. I have good success with my 75GPD system.
I undestand you want to build water from scratch buy my advice is go 50/50.

An RO system should get you close to what you want.

Looks like that seller has a good rep and the system is cheap. Go for it.

Or get something like this from a reputable company. I know it's quite a bit more but you get to see your filter condition without opening it up.

 

[d_striker]

IMHO 50GPD is kind of low. I have good success with my 75GPD system.
I undestand you want to build water from scratch buy my advice is go 50/50.

An RO system should get you close to what you want.

Looks like that seller has a good rep and the system is cheap. Go for it.

How long does it take to yield 10 gallons on your system?

And what's with wastewater with RO systems?

 

[d_striker]

IMHO 50GPD is kind of low. I have good success with my 75GPD system.
I undestand you want to build water from scratch buy my advice is go 50/50.

An RO system should get you close to what you want.

Looks like that seller has a good rep and the system is cheap. Go for it.

Or get something like this from a reputable company. I know it's quite a bit more but you get to see your filter condition without opening it up.

Can I hook that filter in your link up to a garden hose?

And why do you recommend going 50/50? I'm a newb to using RO water for brewing but no stranger to water additions. Thanks in advance!

 

[jetmac]

Can I hook that filter in your link up to a garden hose?

I'm sure with the right adapters you could.

And why do you recommend going 50/50?

For one thing, when I stared, I attempted to control every aspect of my water. It was a bit of a hassle. Then it came to mind, most of the home brewers I know, just brew with straight tap water and make good beer. Why am I making the effort to try to control so much. Then after reading Gordon Strong's book, Brewing Better Beer I realized I really only needed to adjust 2 aspects of my water. And, If I want balanced beer I go 50/50 and if I need a sharper beer I will reduce that to 75 tap /50 RO.

Also, alot of the stuff you filter out, you have to add back.

 

[jetmac]

How long does it take to yield 10 gallons on your system?

If you do the calculation at optimum 75GPD/24=3.125 GPH so about 3-3.5 hours hours

50GP would take about 5 hours and no real improvement over a 75GPD membrane

And what's with wastewater with RO systems?

Not all of the water can get through the tiny holes in the membrane. It's about 3-4:1 for every 4 gallons you get about 1 gallon of RO water.

 

[d_striker]

If you do the calculation at optimum 75GPD/24=3.125 GPH so about 3-3.5 hours hours

50GP would take about 5 hours and no real improvement over a 75GPD membrane



Not all of the water can get through the tiny holes in the membrane. It's about 3-4:1 for every 4 gallons you get about 1 gallon of RO water.

Thanks for all the answers.

 

[d_striker]

What happens to all the wastewater...

 

[DRog00]

SpectraPure has a 90GPD system without tank for $128. I recently replaced my RO membrane with one of their 90GPD membranes (from 75), and the water analysis came out better than the "stock" one from AirWaterIce.

 

[d_striker]

SpectraPure has a 90GPD system without tank for $128. I recently replaced my RO membrane with one of their 90GPD membranes (from 75), and the water analysis came out better than the "stock" one from AirWaterIce.

I just ordered this one. It's a 100 GPD, 5 stage, RO/DI system. http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=489

 

[mpcluever]

What happens to all the wastewater...

Whatever happens to all other waste water that you generate.

The "problem" with RO waste water is that depending on the waste water ratio (mine's 1:1) you have a LOT of minerals in that water. I try to use waste water from my chiller to fill the wash machine, but with the RO waste being twice as hard as tap water, it would make really crappy wash water. If you can collect it, about the only thing it's good for is watering the garden.

 

[d_striker]

Whatever happens to all other waste water that you generate.

The "problem" with RO waste water is that depending on the waste water ratio (mine's 1:1) you have a LOT of minerals in that water. I try to use waste water from my chiller to fill the wash machine, but with the RO waste being twice as hard as tap water, it would make really crappy wash water. If you can collect it, about the only thing it's good for is watering the garden.

I mean, what actually happens to it...Such as, is there a separate hose that it discharges from?

 

[mpcluever]

Oh, yes. There's 3 hoses. One coming in, one for the purified water, and one for waste water.

 

[d_striker]

Oh, yes. There's 3 hoses. One coming in, one for the purified water, and one for waste water.

Got it...Thanks.

 

[jetmac]

What happens to all the wastewater...

Down the drain. They make a "tap" fitting that goes into your drain.

Watch some of these videos from , they explain quite a bit. I know it's focused on Aquariums but it's the same thing for brewing water, you just don't use the DI filter

 

[krazydave]

I use the 75GPD 4-stage system from bulkreefsupply. It works great, but it is slow (as they all are). And I'm notorious for forgetting about it and stepping into a puddle on my garage floor. I've actually started using that same system for all of the drinking\cooking water in our house as well, since our tap water is extremely high in sodium and hardness. Currently I try to keep 3-4 5gal sparkletts jugs filled and when it comes time to brew, I just use whats in the bottles and refill them as I'm brewing.

Since my washing machine is in my garage, I just run a tee off the cold water for the supply water, then run the waste tube into the washing machine drain.
I was at one time filling buckets to water the landscaping with but I kept over filling those also.

 

[d_striker]

I know it's focused on Aquariums but it's the same thing for brewing water, you just don't use the DI filter

I was planning on using the DI filter because I wanted my water completely stripped. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the DI filter?

 

[krazydave]

Oh by the way, in case you're curious like I was. You're not supposed to drain the RO unit between uses. BRS recommended that if I only use it occasionally, that I just dump the first gallon of RO water to make sure I don't have any stagnant water in there. Of course, I asked this when I was assuming I'd only be using it for brewing every few weeks. Now that I use it almost weekly, I don't bother with dumping any.

 

[krazydave]

No reason... other than having to replace the DI resin occasionally.

I was planning on using the DI filter because I wanted my water completely stripped. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the DI filter?

 

[jetmac]

I was planning on using the DI filter because I wanted my water completely stripped. Is there any reason I shouldn't use the DI filter?

Well, if you want to, go ahead. But you'll soon find how expensive it is to remove the ions and then put them right back. I've never had any but I would imagine it would not taste good by itself.


GL

 

[certaut]

The RO systems I have work well and the filter replacement is not costly. Before you purchase any system make sure that replacement filters are available and cost effective. They use a fair amount of water and as the filters get spent they can use allot, so if you are on city water in a place where water is costly, it is more cost effective to just get 5gal water cooler bottles. I have a friend that brews and gets the water delivered to his house for $7 a jug and uses the jugs for fermenters before returning them. his RO filter increased his water bill bu $38 when the filters were getting spent and it cost &110 to replace them. I buy filters for mine by the case and get the carbons for $14 each and the mebrans I get reconditioned for $20 so $48 a filter change. Don't save a buck and spend 10

 

[dover157]

Ok, I have not been on in a year or so but I have done some playing with RO systems. I have a 5 stage RO/DI system from Bulk Reef Supply, with the 150 GPD upgrade as I have a salt water tank and my tapwater is not drinkable. If you do decide to get an RO system consider a booster pump before the system to improve output and your waste ratio unless your water pressure is in the 50-70 psi range out of the tap. As far as where to get them I reccomend finding one thats intended for aquarium use as they usally produce more water and the replacement filters are cheaper. That being said my system puts out RO water in the 3-4 TDS (total disolved solids) range on the drinking water side. I made a batch of Irish Red Ale (extract partial boil) using the RO water and it had a funny metalic after taste when it was ready. After some reading about brewing and water I realized that there is a local brewery that makes a very drinkable ale using the local tap water and perhaps I was taking out to much with my filters. I then did a test batch using water that had been through the sediment filter and the two carbon blocks to take out any chlorine or nitrogen and what ever else may be in the water table but bypassed the RO membrane to leave the minerals. That batch came out much better. So my advice would be to get a good sediment filter and carbon block to get good filtered water without stripping out the minerals, but thats just my thought. Good luck.

 

[mpcluever]

I made a batch of Irish Red Ale (extract partial boil) using the RO water and it had a funny metalic after taste when it was ready.

OH NO! You don't use pure RO water to brew. You definitely need to add the correct minerals back to hit the correct Residual Alkalinity, Calcium level, etc for your malt bill. There's software and spreadsheets out there to tell you what to add given your water supply.

 

[mpcluever]

you'll soon find how expensive it is to remove the ions and then put them right back. I've never had any but I would imagine it would not taste good by itself.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but RO water by itself is NOT what you want to brew with. It WILL taste like crap. The minerals you need to add are very cheap. The purpose of using RO water and then adding minerals back is that you can design the water to exactly suit a recipe. Adjusting water is probably one of the last things you should be worried about. Long after perfecting all your other processes for sure. However, if done correctly, water conditioning can turn a good beer into a great beer.

Here's the spreadsheet my friends and I use.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[d_striker]

OH NO! You don't use pure RO water to brew. You definitely need to add the correct minerals back to hit the correct Residual Alkalinity, Calcium level, etc for your malt bill. There's software and spreadsheets out there to tell you what to add given your water supply.

He did a partial mash brew. The minerals are concentrated in the extract.

 

[mpcluever]

That is true. There is minerals in extract and if you're doing an all extract batch, you're most likely fine using RO water. However, if you do a mash with straight RO water, your PH will be completely wrong and it will turn out like crap.

 

[dover157]

OH NO! You don't use pure RO water to brew. You definitely need to add the correct minerals back to hit the correct Residual Alkalinity, Calcium level, etc for your malt bill. There's software and spreadsheets out there to tell you what to add given your water supply.

Ya I learned that the hard way, the second batch using water that just went through the carbon filters but not the RO membrane came out much better. Im not advanced enough to ad minearals to my RO water yet, perhaps someday.

 

[d_striker]

Ya I learned that the hard way, the second batch using water that just went through the carbon filters but not the RO membrane came out much better. Im not advanced enough to ad minearals to my RO water yet, perhaps someday.

Again, the minerals are concentrated in the extract. Many people use distilled water with NO minerals to do extract/partial mash brews (if we're talking about only using steeping grains for PM.)

 

[mpcluever]

I feel like we're hijacking the post, so sorry to the OP.

As soon as you use the word "mash", you simply do not want to use straight RO water whether it's a partial or full mash. RO is fine for all extract, but when it comes to mashing, RO water has zero alkaline buffering so your mash will be VERY acidic and you will not get good conversion and leach a bunch of tannins. When using RO water for mashing, you must either cut regular tap water back in or add the proper minerals back. Especially for all-grain, using RO/DI is really only for when you want to REALLY geek out on your recipes. If you're not ready/willing to do the calculations on what you need to add, you're WAY better off just using carbon filtered tap water.

 

[krazydave]

I feel like we're hijacking the post, so sorry to the OP.

As soon as you use the word "mash", you simply do not want to use straight RO water whether it's a partial or full mash. RO is fine for all extract, but when it comes to mashing, RO water has zero alkaline buffering so your mash will be VERY acidic and you will not get good conversion and leach a bunch of tannins. When using RO water for mashing, you must either cut regular tap water back in or add the proper minerals back. Especially for all-grain, using RO/DI is really only for when you want to REALLY geek out on your recipes. If you're not ready/willing to do the calculations on what you need to add, you're WAY better off just using carbon filtered tap water.

+1 if you're doing all grain, you should definitely start delving into water chemistry now. There's a good wiki here on it and some good spreadsheets out there that'll help you get the water profile you want via mineral and acid additions.