Poppets not flush with posts

[Razorback_Jack]

Subject says it all. I replaced old poppets with “universal” ones, and now the poppet sticks up a little above the post, maybe 1mm. Concerned that this may cause a Co2 leak. Aren’t the poppets supposed to be flush with the post? I’ve heard some people clip off the last coil of the spring, but not sure... should I try it?

 

[McKnuckle]

Gas is blocked off under the poppet with an O-ring, not on top, so protrusion above the post should not affect your seal. Clipping the spring will only affect the tension, not the poppet's position, because the O-ring hasn't moved: The poppet still needs to rise up to the same level in order to seal against the inside of the post.

The only thing I'd think might be a problem is QD attachment, which could be overly stiff with the tight clearances involved.

 

[Razorback_Jack]

Subject says it all. I replaced old poppets with “universal” ones, and now the poppet sticks up a little above the post, maybe 1mm. Concerned that this may cause a Co2 leak. Aren’t the poppets supposed to be flush with the post? I’ve heard some people clip off the last coil of the spring, but not sure... should I try it?

Sorry for typo in subject... fixed it

 

[Razorback_Jack]

Gas is blocked off under the poppet with an O-ring, not on top, so protrusion above the post should not affect your seal. Clipping the spring will only affect the tension, not the poppet's position, because the O-ring hasn't moved: The poppet still needs to rise up to the same level in order to seal against the inside of the post.

The only thing I'd think might be a problem is QD attachment, which could be overly stiff with the tight clearances involved.

Thanks for pointing that out. I haven’t even connected any QDs yet, and hadn’t thought of this issue.

 

[passedpawn]

Some of my posts have the universal poppet assy (separate spring and plunger). Yes, they do stick up a bit above the face of the post. Has not been an issue.

I think I still prefer the standard poppets, but my LHBS doesn't carry those any more. Argh. The spring in the universals is pretty strong, and I think it makes the disconnect a little more difficult to get on there. On the other hand, perhaps it seals better. The disconnects, when on, always properly depress the universal spring, so that is not a problem.

 

[cubalz]

Most of mine are like that too after replacing them with universals. It has never posed any issues.

 

[Deadalus]

Same here with the universals. I did have an issue with one were the o-ring was visible and it leaked beer slowly as it was on the liquid side. I have been slowly replacing my universals with the correct poppets. I have a number of kegs from various manufacturers so it can be kind of challenging to identify the correct poppets. They are also more expensive, most places they are at least $4 a poppet. I think I have most of them changed currently except I have a few converted pin lock kegs that the adapter keg posts came with.

 

[day_trippr]

Third here with universal poppets, it's common for the tip of the metal slug to sit proud of the post top...

Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

Gas is blocked off under the poppet with an O-ring, not on top, so protrusion above the post should not affect your seal. Clipping the spring will only affect the tension, not the poppet's position, because the O-ring hasn't moved: The poppet still needs to rise up to the same level in order to seal against the inside of the post.

The only thing I'd think might be a problem is QD attachment, which could be overly stiff with the tight clearances involved.

I've had the same problem before on a couple of keg fittings. They aren't as 'universal' as you'd hope. They're sometimes a little stiff to hook up and take off, but nothing more than an annoyance. They work fine at shutting off the flow of beer or CO2.

Brooo Brother

 

[jcav]

I know what you mean about how much harder you have to depress the disconnects on the replacement springs. The new kegs come with the springs that are smaller and require less tension. You would think you could just order more of these springs but they are no where to be found. Anyone have a link to the OEM springs please post. It would be nice to replace when needed with the original type springs.

John

 

[day_trippr]

If by "original springs" you mean "oem poppets" they can be obtained from places like chicompany.net
Check out this page: https://www.chicompany.net/poppet-valves-c-376_1_492/

Oem poppets were never rebuildable...

Cheers!

 

[jcav]

Hey Trippr, actually I was meaning the springs that the poppets are attached to when you buy a new keg like the ones here linked below. The ones I am looking for are like the universal poppet springs but the OEM spring is shorter and not as hard to compress.


https://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-5-Gallon-Corny-Keg-Ball-Lock_p_5100.html?AffId=95

Thanks for chiming in,

John

 

[day_trippr]

Wait - are you saying brand new kegs are coming with "universal" style (short) christmas tree springs and posts with tiny O-rings?
That'd be different. I bought a 2.5g and a 3g keg recently, both brand new, and they both used classic style poppets.

btw I do like the welded tab under the lid for hanging hop bags. Nice of them to do that...

Cheers!

 

[jcav]

Wait - are you saying brand new kegs are coming with "universal" style (short) christmas tree springs and posts with tiny O-rings?
That'd be different. I bought a 2.5g and a 3g keg recently, both brand new, and they both used classic style poppets.

btw I do like the welded tab under the lid for hanging hop bags. Nice of them to do that...

Cheers!

Yes that's how they sell some of the kegs now and that is why I am baffled that you can't buy that same spring as a spare part. Only can get the longer harder to compress spring. I tried compressing the longer universal spring in my bench vise to see if that would help but it didn't. Tried cutting a small amount off the spring but that just tore the O-ring on top of the post. I bought the universal springs, poppets and posts to replace two of my regular kegs standard posts, poppets and springs, to make them all the same size with the same parts. For now I will just keep the original posts with the poppets and springs on those two kegs. If they fail I can just use the standard permanent style poppets that they have on them now.

John

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I've bought universal poppets from different sources and have noticed the springs can be different sizes. Some springs are longer, which pushes on the poppet harder and some of them stick out like you're saying. Hasn't ever caused me an issue, except one time. I had an empty keg which had been sitting for a couple weeks. I think the poppet had kind of stuck to the inside of the post(maybe because it was being pushed on so hard? or maybe that had nothing to do with it) and when I attached a QD to purge it of sanizer the poppet actually popped halfway through the hole in the post. I reassembled and it worked fine after that.

 

[day_trippr]

I had that happen on a full keg of imperial stout - naturally, on the Out post. In the 2 seconds it took to pull the PRV it had already sprayed sticky stout all over me and half of a 5 foot diameter space, right to the ceiling

So, I don't use universal poppets on my kegs anymore...

Cheers!

 

[passedpawn]

I had that happen on a full keg of imperial stout - naturally, on the Out post. In the 2 seconds it took to pull the PRV it had already sprayed sticky stout all over me and half of a 5 foot diameter space, right to the ceiling

So, I don't use universal poppets on my kegs anymore...

Cheers!

Ayup. I have one hand on the PRV every time I pull the beer disconnect. Man that pizzes me off when I get a face (and ceiling) full of beer. I really should just pull it before, but I'm too cheap to waste that CO2.

 

[IslandLizard]

Tried cutting a small amount off the spring but that just tore the O-ring on top of the post.

From what I've read, you need to cut a turn off the bottom of the (too long) spring not the top. The bottom rests on the dip tube flare, it shouldn't cause a problem there. The top, where the short poppet drops in, should stay as it is.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Yeah I think trimming the bottom would solve the problem and wouldn't be difficult. My springs are various lengths(different suppliers) and the shorter ones don't seem to push the poppet slightly out of the post hole. If I consistently had issues I'd cut the longer ones down

 

[Deadalus]

Yes that's how they sell some of the kegs now and that is why I am baffled that you can't buy that same spring as a spare part. Only can get the longer harder to compress spring. I tried compressing the longer universal spring in my bench vise to see if that would help but it didn't. Tried cutting a small amount off the spring but that just tore the O-ring on top of the post. I bought the universal springs, poppets and posts to replace two of my regular kegs standard posts, poppets and springs, to make them all the same size with the same parts. For now I will just keep the original posts with the poppets and springs on those two kegs. If they fail I can just use the standard permanent style poppets that they have on them now.

John

Since you mentioned it, I wanted to mention that there are no universal posts. I've seen them advertised and in fact bought them but the first time I used them as a replacement, they didn't fit. This is because thread size can vary between manufacturers.

I personally managed to convert a number of pin locks to ball locks so that I have all ball locks but you still need to be mindful of the potential differences in thread sizes.

 

[IslandLizard]

I still have and use all the original poppets that came with my used kegs. Some have become a bit problematic sealing well all the time, seeping a tad. I put a note on those kegs. I always check them, the gas ones with a drop of Starsan, and re-set them with a nail set (or a screwdriver).
I've been lubing the rubber seal, which does seem to help. Also trying to get some lube between the plastic plunger and the rubber seal. I use needle nose pliers, which is still tricky to keep them open, not much grip. If one side was forked (if they exist) that would be really dandy.

We need a small poppet spring compressor...

 

[Robert65]

This guide identifies the particular thread and post type for any model of keg: https://www.kegoutlet.com/how-can-i-tell-what-type-of-posts-will-fit-on-my-corny-keg.html
Chi Company, Keg Outlet, and others have all the standard OEM parts. Forget the "universal" stuff.

 

[IslandLizard]

I wanted to mention that there are no universal posts.

That's accurate.
They make "universal poppets" those used with Christmas tree shaped springs.

I have the feeling the original poppets may not be all the same length, varying between the various keg manufacturers the same as the posts do. Some of those poppets seem to have somewhat wider heads too. There's a picture around showing a bunch of them lined up. They surely show their differences.

 

[day_trippr]

Oh, yes, just as oem posts vary in height, oem poppets are different in both length - and sometimes the diameter of the sealing bits.
There used to be a picture that showed the major keg manufacturer's poppets in a row but for the life of me I can't find the damned thing...

Cheers!

[edit] This pic shows many of the different oem poppets...

 

[Deadalus]

Some kegs have an extra piece too besides the post and poppets. I have kegs with a plastic bulging disc under the poppet. Best to always wash individually.

Buying used kegs too is an issue because you don't know what the former owner did to it. You can't replace the gasket/o-ring part so somebody replaces the whole poppet but chooses the wrong one. The poppets look different in the picture but remember they are about the size of a quarter. For the longest time I just thought the only differences were between ball and pin locks!

 

[tracer bullet]

Sorry, but let's bump an old post. I have been studying these a bit lately, and found a root cause, I think, to some frustrations I've been having. The "Universal" poppets are all over the place for their size and shape. All are similar of course, but vary in wire thickness, the # of coils, and their free height.

I began noticing recently, after buying a bunch of new keg posts, that some kegs: 1) Foamed a lot more coming out of the flow-control tap than did other kegs, and 2) Some kegs did a closed transfer rather smoothly, and some did not. I'm quite sure it comes down to these springs. Some are easily compressed, some I think "bottom out" and can not be compressed very far. In effect the amount of beer that can pass through them becomes limited, or darn close to being shut off altogether.

I know there's a balance with the springs in the plastic quick disconnect adapters too, and I'm not quite sure how that should work. If the post springs are too weak, then the springs inside the QD's will be the thing keeping that poppet from opening up.

Anyone looked into this and figured it out? I may just have to do some trial and error with different combos, paying attention, and then simply buying more of whatever it is that works. I'm hoping someone's already been down this road.

 

[tracer bullet]

No longer a theory for me. Figured out I could test this, with an empty keg, posts with the various springs under them, and a QD with a length of CO2 hose attached to it, filled with water.

The short spring on the left allows the hose to drain into the keg at what I'd call a fast speed. The spring on the right takes this down to "drops", 2 or 3 a second. Fast drops, but nowhere near the speed of the short spring.

So, I'll try finding more short springs, I've already emailed Bobby's store and one more as a backup plan. I could probably just cut the longer ones but I'd prefer them to have a flat ground surface where they hit the bottom of the poppet.

If folks have foaming issues, you might consider this as a cause. I might have to give my "picnic tap 2.0" another shot, giving it a smoother flow to start with might help.

 

[Deadalus]

No longer a theory for me. Figured out I could test this, with an empty keg, posts with the various springs under them, and a QD with a length of CO2 hose attached to it, filled with water.

The short spring on the left allows the hose to drain into the keg at what I'd call a fast speed. The spring on the right takes this down to "drops", 2 or 3 a second. Fast drops, but nowhere near the speed of the short spring.

So, I'll try finding more short springs, I've already emailed Bobby's store and one more as a backup plan. I could probably just cut the longer ones but I'd prefer them to have a flat ground surface where they hit the bottom of the poppet.

If folks have foaming issues, you might consider this as a cause. I might have to give my "picnic tap 2.0" another shot, giving it a smoother flow to start with might help.

View attachment 855307

Couldn't you just cut the other end of the spring?

 

[tracer bullet]

Couldn't you just cut the other end of the spring?

I mentioned it, I could probably just cut the longer ones but I'd prefer them to have a flat ground surface where they hit the bottom of the poppet.

Same for the other end on top of the dip tubes. My experiences with other things with cut coils is that things don't sit flat and the cut end of the coil tends to wander around and eventually get stuck in places.

 

[Deadalus]

It's a good picture but it didn't seem like the bottoms were ground on the bigger end at first look. I see it now. I have a number of these. I will look, I never looked close enough to see that they may be ground.