Poor attenuation?

[michaelbevilacqua]

I just bottled and received a FG of 1.010. The beer is hoppy as it should be but the strength just isn't there. The OG at boil (chilled to 60F) was 1.045.

I'm on my second batch of all grain. This time around I used 10lbs plain Breis, 10lbs pale Breis and 2lbs Crystal. Held a 158F for 1 hour, sparged with 3 gallons of 170F water, recirculated, did my boil, cooled with a chillzilla wort chiller to 60F in under 10 minutes into my primary, waited 1 hour for the trub to settle, siphoned into my glass carboy and pitched my started which consisted of 2 packages of Wyeast American Ale in a starter solution of 1 quart water, 1 cup malt extract that was happily fermenting for 2 days.

Everything seemed fine until the fermentation seemed to stop suddenly in the 4th day. There was a good amount more of trub on the bottom by this time as well. I would say at least one inch worth.

Where am I going wrong? Should I let the trub settle for longer in my primary? Does this risk contamination if I do? I'm going for high strenght dry pale ale.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[zoebisch01]

I am a new brewer, but I believe you are almost %78 attenuated. This is mainly a function of yeast strain, but can be affected by temperature (which is an input to the yeast equation) and also mashing at 158, I believe, will reduce the amount of fermentables adding to a fuller bodied maltier beer. Anybody feel free to correct me if I am off. I am fairly new at this


Whoa, wait a minute. I just re-read your post. 22 lbs of grain, I hope this is a 10 gallon batch. Are you asking about your efficiency perhaps?

 

[zoebisch01]

I just looked up Wyeast American Ale at BYO.com. The top cited attenuation with that strain is %77. So you are doing nothing wrong it seems.

 

[zoebisch01]

Now if you are talking extraction efficiency, you are quite low for a 10 gallon batch. At %85 you should be hitting 1.063ish (off the cuff here). How are you crushing your grains?

 

[michaelbevilacqua]

I'm sorry. I think I meant to say efficiency, not attenuation. It's a 5 gallon batch.

 

[ajf]

With 22 lbs malt, you need a lot more than 3g sparge water to extract the sugars from the mash. For your next brew, I would suggest reducing your malt to about 11 - 12 lbs, and sparging with enough water to collect about 6.5 - 7g, then boil down to about 5.5g. This should increase your efficiency considerably. If you really want strong beers, you could increase the malt after you have got a bit of experience.
Also, if you make a starter, a single smack pack of wyeast should be adequate for a 5g batch.

-a.

 

[chillHayze]

Do you mill your own grain, or does it come milled?

 

[michaelbevilacqua]

Do you mill your own grain, or does it come milled?

I have the clerks at the Home Brew Supply shop mill my grains.

 

[michaelbevilacqua]

With 22 lbs malt, you need a lot more than 3g sparge water to extract the sugars from the mash.
-a.

Even if I recirculate?

For your next brew, I would suggest reducing your malt to about 11 - 12 lbs, and sparging with enough water to collect about 6.5 - 7g, then boil down to about 5.5g. This should increase your efficiency considerably.
-a.

I tried that with my first batch which came out very weak.

 

[david_42]

Recirculation tends to form channels, unless you stir the mash. You still need to sparge more. As the gravity of the wort increases it's ability to dissolve more sugars declines. You've obviously hit the limit and left MOST of the sugars behind. 22 pounds for a 5 gallon batch should have given you over 1.110

An efficient mash & sparge is the first thing you need to develop. Tossing more grain in the tun just lowers your efficiency even further.

 

[michaelbevilacqua]

An efficient mash & sparge is the first thing you need to develop. Tossing more grain in the tun just lowers your efficiency even further.

Can you recommend me some reading for better mashing? Obviously the Papazian methods decsribed in 'the new complete joy of homebrewing' are inadequate.

 

[ajf]

As far as I know (and I could be wrong), recirculation will not significantly affect efficiency, but it will reduce unwanted substances (tannins) being passed into the wort prior to boiling.

From your data, you do have very poor efficiency, but to help us find the cause, you need to give more information.

Can you describe how you mash?
How much water do you use per pound of grain during the mash?
How do you determine the mash temperature (I guess with a thermometer)?
Is the thermometer accurate?
How much do you stir the mash before taking the temperature?
Do you do a starch conversion test to verify that the mash is complete?

Can you describe the crush of the grain you got from the HBS?
Are there a lot of grains that are still whole? By whole, I mean that the grain is completely intact, not that it looks intact, but has actually been cracked and is loosely being held together by the husk.

Finally, how do you sparge?
Can you describe your equipment and technique?
How long does the sparge take?
Have you measured the temperature of the grain being sparged?
Have you measured the gravity of the final sparge runnings? (They should be close to 1.010)

-a.

 

[michaelbevilacqua]

From your data, you do have very poor efficiency, but to help us find the cause, you need to give more information.

Can you describe how you mash?
How much water do you use per pound of grain during the mash?
How do you determine the mash temperature (I guess with a thermometer)?

1.3 quarts water to 1 pound of cracked grain. Heat the water to 175F in brewpot. Stir in the cracked grain. Take temp (should be 158F). Wrap brewpot with old sleeping bag. Let steep for 1 hour.

Is the thermometer accurate?

Yes. It is a 12" Large Dial Thermometer. Fast and acurate.

How much do you stir the mash before taking the temperature?

Continously as I am adding the cracked grain.

Do you do a starch conversion test to verify that the mash is complete?

Yes, with a tincure of iodine on a white plate. Although, I never see any night and day results with this test.

Can you describe the crush of the grain you got from the HBS?

Cracked, with the husk removed and the inner portion of the grain exposed.

Are there a lot of grains that are still whole? By whole, I mean that the grain is completely intact, not that it looks intact, but has actually been cracked and is loosely being held together by the husk.

Not that I noticed.

Finally, how do you sparge?

I put 3 gallons of water at 170F into 6 gallon racking bucket. I put that bucket on top of a heavy duty ladder. Then I use the hose to spray the hot water onto the grain bed while slowly draining through the false bottom of the brewpot into a third container on the floor.

Pictures speak louder than words if you are interested, I have journaled some of this.

http://www.bevilacqua.us/?p=248

Can you describe your equipment and technique?

1 10 gallon Polarware Brew pot with false bottom
1 4 gallon stainless steel water pot
2 7 gallon food grade plastic buckets, one with a spigot used as both a sparge water resivoir and racking bucket, the other used to catch the sparge and act as a primary fermenter
1 5 gallon glass carboy

How long does the sparge take?

I didn't actually time it. I would guess 30 minutes total with recirculation.

Have you measured the temperature of the grain being sparged?

Yes. The temperature increased to 168F. Is that correct?

Have you measured the gravity of the final sparge runnings? (They should be close to 1.010)

No I did not measure the gravity until half way through the boil.

 

[ajf]

Thanks for the explanations, and the link.
1.3 quarts water to 1 pound of cracked grain. Heat the water to 175F in brewpot. Stir in the cracked grain. Take temp (should be 158F). Wrap brewpot with old sleeping bag. Let steep for 1 hour.

The ratio of water to grain looks good.

I guess the mash temp was actually 158. (You said it should be, but was it?)

Do you do a startch conversion test?
Yes, with a tincure of iodine on a white plate. Although, I never see any night and day results with this test.

Sounds good. If you do as test at the beginning of the mash, you should see what effect starch has on the iodine. Sounds like your mash was good.

The grain crush sounds OK.

How do you sparge?
I put 3 gallons of water at 170F into 6 gallon racking bucket. I put that bucket on top of a heavy duty ladder. Then I use the hose to spray the hot water onto the grain bed while slowly draining through the false bottom of the brewpot into a third container on the floor.

Pictures speak louder than words if you are interested, I have journaled some of this.

http://www.bevilacqua.us/?p=248

Major problem here.

As I said previously, 3g water cannot possibly sparge 22 lbs grain.

In your link, you said "It was recommended that I use 1/2 gallon sparge water per 1 pound of grain. 11 gallons of water didn’t seem necessary and I wanted to be sure to hit a gravity of about 1.040 or higher."

Wrong. It is very necessary, and if you don't use approximately 1/2 gallon water per pound of grain, you will not get good efficiency.
Of course, if you cut the grain down to a more reasonable 12 lbs, you would only need 6 gallons of sparge water, which is typical for a 5 gallon batch.

Have you measured the temperature of the grain being sparged?
Yes. The temperature increased to 168F. Is that correct?

This doesn't make any sense at all.
You started with 22 lbs grain and 56 lbs water (7 gallons) which (according to you) were at 158 degrees. You then add 24 lbs water at 170 degrees and say the temperature increased to 168. The temperature wouldn't get over 162 with those volumes and temperatures.

If you cut the grain down to 12 lbs, and use 6 gallons of sparge water heated to about 180 degrees (or possibly warmer), then stir well and let it rest for 10 minutes before draining, then I think your efficiency will increase considerably.

-a.