Pliny the Middle Child

[fidjit]

Adding this one to the brew list!

 

[user 22118]

Glad people are liking this. The higher mash temp is akin to Lagunitas IPA where it gets a very solid malty backbone, but it is also higher in alcohol. I really enjoy how "soft" it is for being so big and bold. Delicious for sure! So much response, I just moved this up to the top of my list of things to brew again! Just did up a lighter summer beer, then maybe a quick pale ale to fill the void, and then this guy again just in time for harvest...woo hoo!

 

[user 22118]

I just bought the ingredients to do this fellow up again. Maybe I will throw it together while I do my Barleywine this Friday. Busy brewday. Start early morning with this and then onto the Barleywine for a long ass day full of debauchery. I will try to take some pictures along the day, though I need to have a smaller glass than my last brewday :cross:

I am going to go with Columbus at 60min as I have that on hand and the rest will be the same

Hey Baja Brewer, how did yours turn out in the end? Did it dry out too much for it or did it retain the malty profile?

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I just bought the ingredients to do this fellow up again. Maybe I will throw it together while I do my Barleywine this Friday. Busy brewday. Start early morning with this and then onto the Barleywine for a long ass day full of debauchery. I will try to take some pictures along the day, though I need to have a smaller glass than my last brewday :cross:

I am going to go with Columbus at 60min as I have that on hand and the rest will be the same

Hey Baja Brewer, how did yours turn out in the end? Did it dry out too much for it or did it retain the malty profile?

Yah! Go for it!

Mine turned out really well actually, not as dry as I was worried about... I should really get a few different thermometers and compare them, but was slightly malty and very drinkable. I think I have a keg left of this at home (did a 10 gallon batch) but I'm not sure. I need to get a minifridge and throw together another kegerator for myself so I can tap it!

What recipe are you using for a barleywine? I have a very long "to brew" list at this point, and a barleywine is right up there with my double chocolate stout, need to get those suckers aging! I'm going to be picking up a 55# bag of light DME and I think I'll be using that to up my gravity when it comes barleywine time.... I've been stuck in my apartment for the past few months and havent been able to brew

 

[user 22118]

I am thinking of just throwing some malts together and making a really high alcohol beer. Probably like 30lbs two row, a little six row, some chocolate, some wheat and some crystal. Maybe even some victory, munich or vienna for a little something different. Aiming for at least 1.100.

You better get on that IPA otherwise you are going to lose all of the hop aromatics.

 

[Brewinator]

This recipe looks interesting. I should point out that RR makes a great IPA, sold only on tap, that is like a Pliny light, much less harsh than Blind Pig. Perhaps this is closer to that?

 

[user 22118]

Negative there Ghost Rider. They have the Russian River IPA which is still a pretty hearty IPA. Then coming up in a month is the Pliny the Younger, which is a 10% IIPA that is really tasty. This Pliny the Middle child is a bit more body than Pliny the Elder because of the higher mash temp and higher final gravity. However, I really find Pliny the Elder to have a bit crisper hop flavor most likely due to the extracts that they are using and the lower FG. I get a bit more of a leafy hop flavor (like the flavor of cooked herbs, where you taste the actual leaf and not just the high flavors) in this IPA since it uses hops and not the oils only.

 

[Brewinator]

However, I really find Pliny the Elder to have a bit crisper hop flavor most likely due to the extracts that they are using and the lower FG. I get a bit more of a leafy hop flavor (like the flavor of cooked herbs, where you taste the actual leaf and not just the high flavors) in this IPA since it uses hops and not the oils only.

But the extracts are acids, only for bittering, per Vinnie. Flavor comes from the oils. Does this make sense with what you are saying?

I'm not sure what evil magic Vinnie is doing to dry hop in such amounts without getting gassy notes. I'd sure like to follow him around for a day though, PtY in hand. :cross:

 

[user 22118]

Yeah, that is what I am saying. You get all of the high notes and acids when using the extracts. When using the hops you can taste the character of the hop leaf/pellet, which is a different kind of flavor. In the end though, this still is a little higher FG and so is technically a different beer in many many ways. I really wanted a highly hopped beer that was absolutely screaming hops in its aroma in the way that Pliny the Elder does. I was quite happy with how this turned out in that manor.

 

[brewmasterjjfad]

Vinnie is always willing to talk to us homebrewers and answer questions. One time we sat down and he talked the whole process of Pliny from start to finish. From what I remember he uses 2 row and Carapils with very light crystal 15L and quite a bit of sugar. He prefers to mash low as he likes it to dry out. CZT hops are a must. He also dry hops warm and cold because they contribute different flavors at different temps.

 

[Brewinator]

Yeah, gotta love Vinnie, arguably the best DIPA on earth, and he has an open-source recipe for it.

Interesting about the cold and hot dry hops. But that still doesn't explain how he avoids grassiness.

One thing I do believe, is there are 5 or 10 bad IPAs out there for every good one. And only Longhammer () is in grocery stores ATM. So I see IPAs as a real growth area for breweries. If/when the mass market starts getting a taste for hops, we should see a lot more varieties hit the shelves.

For now, since I can't afford to wantonly chug Pliny at $5/17oz, I need to BYO!

Vinnie is always willing to talk to us homebrewers and answer questions. One time we sat down and he talked the whole process of Pliny from start to finish. From what I remember he uses 2 row and Carapils with very light crystal 15L and quite a bit of sugar. He prefers to mash low as he likes it to dry out. CZT hops are a must. He also dry hops warm and cold because they contribute different flavors at different temps.

 

[brewmasterjjfad]

I happen to like some grassiness in my beer of course too much can be unpleasant. Hop choice is important. From my experience grassiness will mellow with time...

 

[user 22118]

Just remember that this beer is Pliny inspired and not Pliny copied. The idea is that Pliny is awesome and I wanted to make a beer that emulated that idea of super aromatic and balanced beer. This beer comes out quite malty in comparison and as mentioned before, has a higher FG. Really good for those who are trying to make an IPA that has a lot of malt flavor and yet still is very hop driven.

 

[Brewinator]

Well that's definitely more Stone or Sierra Nevada than Pliny. I was thinking of doing a Bigfoot Ale clone at some point.

Just remember that this beer is Pliny inspired and not Pliny copied. The idea is that Pliny is awesome and I wanted to make a beer that emulated that idea of super aromatic and balanced beer. This beer comes out quite malty in comparison and as mentioned before, has a higher FG. Really good for those who are trying to make an IPA that has a lot of malt flavor and yet still is very hop driven.

 

[user 22118]

Well that's definitely more Stone or Sierra Nevada than Pliny. I was thinking of doing a Bigfoot Ale clone at some point.

Check out this recipe and attempt this if you get a chance. This is big, hoppy, dry and amazing flavor.

 

[brewmasterjjfad]

Vinnie said that he uses hop extract for bitterness which lowers the vegetal and grassiness.

 

[user 22118]

Right. My point exactly. I think this is going to be my next brew so that I can have it ready for a party in a month.

 

[Brewinator]

Vinnie said that he uses hop extract for bitterness which lowers the vegetal and grassiness.

What really lowers the veggie/grassiness is crashing the temps, which Vinnie does for at least a week, maybe two. 24 hours in the fridge, and grassiness will go away. Most of it is gone in 6 hours at 35F.

 

[Brewinator]

I wanted to point something out. After trying several hop-pellet-in-beer experiments (I will spare no efforts for research), I am now quite convinced that Pliny's flavor and aroma is most dominated by...Columbus. I think this is the world's most underrated hop. And if you look at the generally accepted Pliny recipes out there, Columbus is the largest component of the hop bill.

For those who don't believe me, try this experiment. Put 3-5 Columbus pellets in a tea ball and drop it in a beer (I use Stone IPA, YMMV), and let it sit for a few minutes. Then remove it and sir it up gently (Leave it too long, once the pellets start to come part, and it will become vegetal).

And tell me that doesn't taste and smell like Pliny.

 

[user 22118]

Though I can understand what you mean, I think it might also be the freshness of the hop. I am not saying Stone isn't fresh in your area, but I am saying that the extreme amount of aroma in Pliny (from the extract) is something that is very much its calling card. Have you on the flipside ever had an older Pliny? It is foul and malty with zero hop aroma. I had one that was a year old and I dumped it because it tasted like anus.

Again though, this recipe isn't for Pliny. It is a Pliny inspired beer that I came up with to enjoy and find out if something with the hop aroma could be made at home.

It can...

 

[Brewinator]

Matt, my understanding from various sources is that Vinnie of RR actaully "wet" hops his beer. Supposedly he gets a fresh crop and vacuum freezes it so he can wet hop all year.

This thread seems to make that point and more.

One thing for sure, dry (or wet) hopping is where aroma comes from.

Though I can understand what you mean, I think it might also be the freshness of the hop. I am not saying Stone isn't fresh in your area, but I am saying that the extreme amount of aroma in Pliny (from the extract) is something that is very much its calling card. Have you on the flipside ever had an older Pliny? It is foul and malty with zero hop aroma. I had one that was a year old and I dumped it because it tasted like anus.

Again though, this recipe isn't for Pliny. It is a Pliny inspired beer that I came up with to enjoy and find out if something with the hop aroma could be made at home.

It can...