Pliny The Elder - BeerSmith 2 Question

[kpheasey]

I'm attempting my first AG brew soon with the help of BeerSmith. It's going to be a Pliny The Elder clone. It's based on the following recipe, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/pliny-elder-recipe-questions-125517/index8.html#post1537060.

The recipe calls for gathering 8 gallons of runnings for a 5 gallon batch. I'm assuming this is to account for absorption from the whole hops. However, I'm using pellets and entered them as such. Does this mean that I need to adjust the amount of hops/grain because I will only need a 5.7 gallons pre-boil volume with my current setup?

I've attached a print out of the recipe. Thanks for any advice!

View attachment pliny_the_elder.pdf

 

[eastoak]

there is a button that says "water volumes" that lets you tinker with all of the water volumes. under equipment profile check out your kettle settings including the boil off rate.

 

[LexusChris]

Whenever I take a recipe off the internet, I just load the ingredients into Beersmith and let it compute all the steps & details of 'my brewing equipment'. Everybody's system is a bit different, so getting your system setup in Beersmith is the 1st big step. Then you can noodle ingredient lists and adjust as neccessary.

If you are new to Beersmith, I would use their defaults for your size system, and take notes of things like: water temp drop when added to cold mash tun, amount wort collected, amount wort into fermenter, deadspace volume, etc. Once you have a brew or two under your belt, you can fine tune your equipment details in beersmith for future batches.

In the end, you will make beer. So relax and all that.. Just take notes, and enjoy your 1st AG brewday! Your process & Beersmith profile will get tweeked a bit here and there as you go along and you'll get better & more repeatable results over time!

Big things I learned in my 1st few batches of AG & Beesmith?

+ use water and figure out your true deadspace, and put into your equipment profile

+ I turn off 'Adjust temp for equipment', so that tells me the temp my water needs to be in the tun, before I add the grains. (i.e. the temp drop for adding grains is better understood than the temp drop for adding water to your particular mash tun.) For my rubbermaid 10gal cooler, I found that I would lose 6F-8F in temp when adding my water. So if it was a cold day, I would just add 8F to the dough-in temp in Beersmith.

+ Collary: It is easier to cool down a mash than to heat it up. Aim a bit high, especially if you are targeting low mash step temp.

Anyways, have a great brewday!
--LexusChris

 

[bobbrews]

The recipe calls for gathering 8 gallons of runnings for a 5 gallon batch. I'm assuming this is to account for absorption from the whole hops. However, I'm using pellets and entered them as such. Does this mean that I need to adjust the amount of hops/grain because I will only need a 5.7 gallons pre-boil volume with my current setup?

No. Russian River uses pellet hops and the clone recipe is assuming you are also using pellets.

The typical boiloff for a reduced 60 minute boil would be 0.75 to 1.25 gallons. Pliny uses a 90 minute boil. 8 gallons vigorously boiled for 90 minutes will boiloff approx. 1.5 to 2 gallons.

This leaves you with 6.0 to 6.5 gallons after the boil. 0.25 to 0.50 gallons is probably lost to trub when racking to primary. Now, you're left with about 5.75 to 5.5 gallons pre-fermentation.

Post-fermentation, you drop the yeast, rack to secondary, and add the dryhops. After racking, another 0.25 to 0.50 gallons is lost and this leaves you at 5.5 to 5.25 gallons. After you bottle, and the dryhops sink, some beer is absorbed by them. This leaves you with about 5 gallons post-fermentation to bottle and drink.

 

[bobbrews]

Here is a more correct recipe... Though it was said RR may have been using a bit of Amarillo in the dryhop during the past few years.

 

[scottland]

Vinnie has said more than a few times that isn't the exact recipe. It's something close to Elder, and it makes a fantastic DIPA, but it isn't exactly Elder.

From my experience, drop the C40 malt to 2%. Increase the percentage of CTZ in the dry hop by decreasing the Centennial. Also use hop extract for bittering. Toss a .25oz of Amarillo in the second dry hop for good measure.

That should get you there. Definitely less C40 though, if you only make one change, make that one. Every single PTE clone i've ever seen is a couple SRM too dark.

 

[bobbrews]

Those sound like excellent tweaks, scott. I was going to say that using a lighter grade crystal, and slightly less of it wouldn't hurt.

 

[scottland]

I brewed a batch two-three months ago that had 2% C40, and used hop extract for bittering. Hops were similar to the recipe you posted, only I tossed Amarillo in the dry hop. Turned out very close. It just wasn't quite dank or piney enough. Color and malt character were spot on though. I'm going to give it another try in a couple months. I'll use a dry hop schedule that has a higher CTZ percentage (circa 2005 recipe), but using the split hop scheme like the current one. Shooting for 1.75oz CTZ, 1.25oz Simcoe, 1oz Centennial, .25oz Amarillo. Divided up across the two dry hops.

 

[kpheasey]

Thanks for all the information.

I was just confused as the 90 minute boil will only amount to about 1 gallon loss. That made me think that since there is less to boil, I should be using less hops, otherwise the IBUs are too high.

I don't know how to measure my trub loss or fermenter loss ahead of time time to adjust for it. Plus I only have an 8 gallon kettle, so, I can't boil 8 gallons at a time

Any suggestions?

 

[mooshimanx]

Vinnie has said more than a few times that isn't the exact recipe. It's something close to Elder, and it makes a fantastic DIPA, but it isn't exactly Elder.

From my experience, drop the C40 malt to 2%. Increase the percentage of CTZ in the dry hop by decreasing the Centennial. Also use hop extract for bittering. Toss a .25oz of Amarillo in the second dry hop for good measure.

That should get you there. Definitely less C40 though, if you only make one change, make that one. Every single PTE clone i've ever seen is a couple SRM too dark.

I personally think the recipe tastes practically identical to the commercial version. I'm sure the commercial version has a number of differences in process, but the end result is so similar I'm not sure what there is to change.

 

[scottland]

I personally think the recipe tastes practically identical to the commercial version. I'm sure the commercial version has a number of differences in process, but the end result is so similar I'm not sure what there is to change.

There could very well be a difference in the level of kettle caramelization you get, the level I get. I can tell you that on my system, 4% C40 yields a beer that's maybe 1-2SRM too dark; it's just slightly too orange.

That's one of the really interesting things about homebrewing, the same recipe can yield quite different results in the hands of different brewers.