please help!!!

[brew2you]

Hello again, I have just had two more batches of beer go bad. I assumed the first two were due to something unsannitary, probably the bottles. I am very meticulus on my cleansing practices but this was the only thing I could figure. 3 of us guys have brewed a little over 40 batches of beer, all kits, and different kinds. 9 batches have gone bad, and they have all been from the same homebrew supply shop. They all have a weird sour smell and taste horrible. Sorry I can't describe it any better but if this has ever happened to you you'll know what I'm talking about. They all go bad after 30 days. The only thing different from these kits and Brewer's Best, Midwest, and Austin seem to be the bottle caps. Is this my problem??? or is it something else and it's just a coincidence that they all came from the same shop? That's 45 gallons of wasted beer, very upsetting! Any help would be great. Thanks

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

I could be a few things, we can offer some ideas and maybe something will click. I hope you are using sanitizer to clean and not bleach. If you use bleach, that could be the problem. If you use a plastic fermenter and it has a scratch inside it, that will harbor bacteria and cause an infection. It can be hard to spot a small scratch, sanitizer helps them show up. I thought I had a pristine fermenter, then I cleaned it with Starsan and a bunch of scratches showed up. No idea how they got there. You could order a new fermenter or use a glass carboy. See what else others come up with as well.

 

[brew2you]

I use glass fermenters. I do use bleach on the bottles and carboys but rinse with water a bunch of times then use One Step sannitizer on each, and a bottle washer. I wash again with the One Step the day I'm bottling.

 

[jescholler]

I think this is a long shot, but One Step is no longer considered a sanitizer by the FDA (see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/vs-pro-con-analysis-109318/).

Having said that, I'm going to use the rest of mine and then switch to Star San. It's probably not your problem, but it might be a good idea to switch.

 

[Homercidal]

I would recommend you switch to starsan. Not necessarily because of your problems, but it's pretty cheap and does a great job. You can use it everywhere and it requires minimal contact time.

Be careful about starting a siphon with your mouth. Also, be aware that there could be floating bacteria that is getting in there. Maybe wipe the cans and bags of extract when you use them and clean all equipment and surfaces with sanitizer to help prevent infection. Dip your hands in sanitizer before touching any cooled wort. Dip bottle caps in starsan and just shake out excess before capping. Starsan will not harm your beer at the recommended dilution.

 

[brew2you]

I wanted to add that I started using the bleach after my first two batches went bad. I thought it would help clean everything. Also, the beers that are bad are flat when poured from the bottles. Not sure sure if this will help define my problem.

 

[Weezknight]

In your original post you said that they all go bad after 30 days. Is that 30 days in the bottles or 30 days from when you brewed the batch?

 

[brew2you]

30 days in the bottle. 3 weeks in fermenter.

 

[Powchekny]

I have experienced the often mentioned extract "twang" when buying extract kits from my local homebrew store. It could be characterized as sourness, I suppose. Are you using extract kits (especially with LME)?

 

[brew2you]

yes they are extract kits with LME. They are just like the ones from Brewer's Best, except I have never had this problem with the BB kits. The styles have all been different, nut brown ale, a red ale, a double wheat bock, and a european bock.

 

[histo320]

I think it is your sanitation practices. I do not use StarSan but instead use C-Brite. Before brewing, I place all of my brewing instruments in the fermenter filled with the sanitizing solution and let it soak while I prepare everything else. This sanitizes both the fermenter and other utinsels.

I am less miticilous about my bottles which will one day come back and bite me in the ass I'm sure, but I simply rinse out the excess yeast, and place them in the bucket as I did with other brewing instruments, then place them upside down and let them drain before placing them in the box until bottling day.

I have 9 batches and no infections so far. I would suggest that you make a list and label everything you need to sanitize. A good rule people use is, "If it touches the beer, sanitize it." I prefer, "If it gets within 10 feet of your beer, Sanitize it."

 

[Beau815]

Man... how does one take up brewing 9 batches at once anyway? Unless your a pro, and this means you KNOW how to make them come out okay at least. I feel bad but I think one brew at a time if your having that issue.

 

[viking999]

I doubt it's an issue with sanitation. Your methods sound fine so there's no way a full 1/4 of your batches are going bad because of sanitation. Also, why would only the batches from this one store be going bad because of sanitation?

It seems very unlikely that it would be the bottle caps. Unless the bottle caps don't seal properly, then there shouldn't be a problem. Even if they don't seal properly, though, I doubt any buggies would be able to squeeze into the bottles. And it would be a bizarre coincidence that every single bottle gets infected.

I bet it's something to do with your ingredients. If you're using liquid malt extract, then the storage conditions are very important. Particularly damaging is excess heat. If the store isn't being careful and/or they don't have a high turnover on product, then all of their extract is going to be bad. I've never experienced hops that have gone bad, so I don't know what that would taste like, but maybe that could be the problem too.

Solution? Don't buy ingredients from that store anymore or at least start using their dry extract instead of the liquid.

 

[histo320]

Man... how does one take up brewing 9 batches at once anyway? Unless your a pro, and this means you KNOW how to make them come out okay at least. I feel bad but I think one brew at a time if your having that issue.

I only brew one at a time, I guess I should have said "9 batches under my belt."

9 at once, does anybody here do that? That would be like a 72 hour marathon. Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[CiscoKid]

I bet it's something to do with your ingredients. If you're using liquid malt extract, then the storage conditions are very important. Particularly damaging is excess heat. If the store isn't being careful and/or they don't have a high turnover on product, then all of their extract is going to be bad.

Solution? Don't buy ingredients from that store anymore or at least start using their dry extract instead of the liquid.

Agreed. If I kept having a problem only with the products I purchased from store x, I think I'd stop using store x.

 

[Munsoned]

Lots of variables to consider, but as they say, sometimes the most obvious thing is the first thing you should start with. You mentioned at the outset that all of the kits come from one source. So, if it were me, I'd change the source (the kit type OR the store OR both), and see what happens. I'd also be extra-careful with the sanitation, but I bet you already are after having so many turn bad...

 

[Munsoned]

I could be a few things, we can offer some ideas and maybe something will click. I hope you are using sanitizer to clean and not bleach. If you use bleach, that could be the problem. If you use a plastic fermenter and it has a scratch inside it, that will harbor bacteria and cause an infection. It can be hard to spot a small scratch, sanitizer helps them show up. I thought I had a pristine fermenter, then I cleaned it with Starsan and a bunch of scratches showed up. No idea how they got there. You could order a new fermenter or use a glass carboy. See what else others come up with as well.

I've never noticed this before. Can you describe more how the sanitizer helps to show scratches? What do you look for?

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

Sorry I have been out for a while. After using starsan, I noticed scratches on the bottom and one on the side. It looks like I took a knife and gently cut into the plastic. All I can think is that maybe I used it to carry some equipment down to the basement and it slid around inside the bucket causing scratches.

Brew2you- Double check how much you dilute the sanitizer, maybe you aren't actually getting the fermenter sanitized. After that, switch to dry malt extract as others have suggested. Why not try your own recipe instead of a kit? Look up some of the extract recipes here, then order the ingredients individually. Some places use the lowest quality ingredients for the kits. Alot of the fun for me is creating, twisting and tweaking recipes of mine or others. Once you bag the kits, you'll never go back!

 

[gointomexico]

How are you capping your bottles? Do you have crown caps, or flip-top bottles? How do you sanatize your caps? If none of your bottles have foam, are you boiling the crown caps, or just soaking them in sanatizer? I think that a 15 min simmer not only sanatizes the caps, but also helps them seal.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Lots of variables to consider, but as they say, sometimes the most obvious thing is the first thing you should start with. You mentioned at the outset that all of the kits come from one source. So, if it were me, I'd change the source (the kit type OR the store OR both), and see what happens. I'd also be extra-careful with the sanitation, but I bet you already are after having so many turn bad...

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