Plate chillers

[brick_haus]

OK, i,ve been using a Blichmann 40plate chiller since my first batch 4 years ago, and I brew often.
My question is: does one plate chiller have less propensity to plug than another? Tired of waiting for this stupid wort to chill due to the Blichmann chiller being almost completely plugged after the first 2 gallons! I brew 15g batches and chilling takes FOREVER due to SLOW FLOW!!!
ps. Im using a March 815 pump.

 

[jekeane]

What are you using to pre filter before the chiller?

 

[bschot]

We have a Blichmann Therminator and use a hop basket and have stainless steel scrubby on the dip tube to prevent clogging. We've used gravity and now have a Chugger pump. We've began recirculating since the pump so we are pumping multiple times the volume and have no issues. If you don't have a hop basket we used to use a paint strainer bag.

 

[brick_haus]

I haven't recently been pre-filtering. I have tried the Brewershardware filter, but it plugs too so no net benefit. I'll give the scrubby a shot.
But to go back to my question, are all plate chillers equally susceptible to plugging?
Any other methods of pre-filtering that you all are successfully using?

 

[bschot]

Other than keeping the hops from going through the chiller I really don't have any ideas. I think that all plate chillers have the potential problem of clogging. My brew buddies and I are thinking about switching to something like the Chillus Convolutus or the JaDeD CFC, I like that it can be taken apart. By the way, how do you clean your CFC after brew day? We use PBW and I don't know if it makes a difference but it helps me sleep at night.

 

[SanPancho]

But to go back to my question, are all plate chillers equally susceptible to plugging?

read bottom half of this. https://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php

not sure if it fully answers your question, but not only do different manufacturers have differences in their designs (spacing between plates, bend radii on fittings, weld material/quality, etc), but the actual size/shape of the HX you own will have its own effects. so yes, some plug easier than others.

maybe another thing to try is working on gettting a good dense cone of trub in your whirlpool. if you keep it away from the drain port then that should help alot. there's all kinds of science behind it, but im sure you can read some info online and improve your game there.

or just use some sort of strainer- stainless/brass wool or scrubbys, bazooka, hop bags, trub trapper, kettle false bottom with drain port?

 

[jammin]

Threads like this make me happy I chose a CFC

 

[brick_haus]

read bottom half of this. https://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php



not sure if it fully answers your question, but not only do different manufacturers have differences in their designs (spacing between plates, bend radii on fittings, weld material/quality, etc), but the actual size/shape of the HX you own will have its own effects. so yes, some plug easier than others.



maybe another thing to try is working on gettting a good dense cone of trub in your whirlpool. if you keep it away from the drain port then that should help alot. there's all kinds of science behind it, but im sure you can read some info online and improve your game there.



or just use some sort of strainer- stainless/brass wool or scrubbys, bazooka, hop bags, trub trapper, kettle false bottom with drain port?

Good info. I do whirlpool vigorously bypassing the HX first to cone the trub, then direct flow through the HX. I believe the blockage to be protein, or hot/cold break not hop material. The break material seems to be much more fluid than the hop material and does not stay in the cone, thus entering the suction tube.

 

[TWAL]

I use a (duda diesel) 30 plate chiller and have a false bottom in my kettle and have never had a clog in the 3 years I've been using this setup.

 

[schematix]

My therminator never failed to clog unless i used a hop spider, but then my beers never had hop punch.

It's now a $200 paper weight. I switched to the Hydra immersion chiller and see similar performance with a LOT less hassle and A LOT less clean-up. A lot less clean-up. It's a rinse vs 10 back flushes, boiling, etc. Scrap it.

 

[smoa]

We have been using a duda diesel plate chiller and a bazooka screen on our dip tube for 5 years and have not any clogs (knock on wood). We use almost only whole leaf hops and when they settle, they create a nice filter bed. I think this bed goes along way towards preventing clogs and also helping to clear up our beer.

 

[stevehaun]

I have been using a therminator for over 5 years. Prior to that I used a chillzilla. I never had a clog with either. The therminator chills much more rapidly than a chillzilla. I can chill 35 gallons of wort to 60F in under 30 min. My well water is about 55F. I only use whole hops and I use a SS hose braid to filter in the BK. I am fairly certain the OP is getting clogs from pellet hop material as well as protein. As pointed out by SMOA, whole hops function as a filter bed. YMMV.

 

[brick_haus]

Yes, I use pellet hops exclusively. I also use either hop bags(paint strainers) or a 300 mesh screen spider. Still nearly plugging the PC completely. I'm thinking a higher pressure pump may help.

 

[schematix]

Yes, I use pellet hops exclusively. I also use either hop bags(paint strainers) or a 300 mesh screen spider. Still nearly plugging the PC completely. I'm thinking a higher pressure pump may help.

I used my 2 March pump in series with the Therminator and it definitely helped, but it still always clogged. Just delayed the inevitable.

 

[SanPancho]

Good info. I do whirlpool vigorously bypassing the HX first to cone the trub, then direct flow through the HX. I believe the blockage to be protein, or hot/cold break not hop material. The break material seems to be much more fluid than the hop material and does not stay in the cone, thus entering the suction tube.

i mentioned whirlpool because most folks think faster/harder means tighter trub cone, but thats not actually the case. the science of it is nuts- kettle geometry, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, etc. so unless you can visually see your nice tight cone when you get to the bottom of the kettle, you might not be getting as much of a cone as you think you are. i speak from experience.

if it is in fact just protein matter, are you using whirlfloc or moss or any of those? do they have enough time to work after you add them?

could it maybe just be related to a specific grain you use? lots of wheat/rye/oats? would a protein rest in your mash help? hot break denatures the proteins, but they're still gonna wind up at the bottom of your kettle.

other than just a very fine screen, i really dont know how you'd handle keeping it out of your HX.

very interesting question.

 

[jwelch1103]

I use a 300 mesh stainless hop spider for all non dissolvable solids like hops, or orange peel and ground coriander for Wit beer. I replaced my CFC with a used plate chiller a while back and have put about 15 batches through it with no reduction in flow rate. I do 12-13 gallon batches. I'd suggest you get a fine mesh stainless hop spider, it works for me.

 

[brick_haus]

i mentioned whirlpool because most folks think faster/harder means tighter trub cone, but thats not actually the case. the science of it is nuts- kettle geometry, fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, etc. so unless you can visually see your nice tight cone when you get to the bottom of the kettle, you might not be getting as much of a cone as you think you are. i speak from experience.

if it is in fact just protein matter, are you using whirlfloc or moss or any of those? do they have enough time to work after you add them?

could it maybe just be related to a specific grain you use? lots of wheat/rye/oats? would a protein rest in your mash help? hot break denatures the proteins, but they're still gonna wind up at the bottom of your kettle.

other than just a very fine screen, i really dont know how you'd handle keeping it out of your HX.

very interesting question.

I get a pretty tight hop cone that stays in place when the kettle empties. Tried using a bazooka screen but it just plugs up. Brewershardware 3" filter completely fills with trub then plugs. Blichmann hopblocker doesn't help much. My system is HERMS so clear wort going into BK.
Does anyone have luck using pellet hops and plate chiller? Again, I use either hop sacks or
300 mesh spider for all hops.

 

[breckenridge]

Stainless mesh spider (previously cloth), pellet hops, Therminator, whirlfloc, no scrubby or other filter on my dip tube, and the only clog I ever had was when I used whole cone hops w/o the spider (d'oh -- don't ask). No whirlpool either - I get a bunch of hot break going into the carboys, and sometimes even tip the BK to get more wort (along w/ more trub - side effect) into the fermenters. I pump wort through as quick as I can to have it chilled - never recirculate. Now in the cooler weather, that means about 0.5 gpm or even faster, but never had problems with warmer groundwater/slower rates.

Maybe your water + your trub = way stickier han mine for some reason?

 

[Yeastieboy]

After 5 years of brewing and going from a homemade counterflow to a plate chiller, I am buying a Hydra IC. Tire of the plate chiller PITA.

 

[sillbeer]

I've been using a duda diesel 30 plate chiller for a couple years now and have had complete blockage on one occasion while transferring. I bought a Utah Diesel 400 micron hop basket and haven't had a problem since. I recently moved to a CFC and can't wait for the reduced cleanup once I get it setup. After every brew I would use an air compressor to blow the trub out the opposite direction then I would boil water and flow the opposite direction for several minutes. I think a CFC will eliminate that time spent plus I won't have to deal with the possibilities of stoppage when transferring.

 

[augiedoggy]

Good info. I do whirlpool vigorously bypassing the HX first to cone the trub, then direct flow through the HX. I believe the blockage to be protein, or hot/cold break not hop material. The break material seems to be much more fluid than the hop material and does not stay in the cone, thus entering the suction tube.

I don't think it's break material alone... I have never had an issue with break material in my duda plate chiller. I do use a hop spider and a stainless braided line attached to my diptube. I go from boiling to the fermenter in one pass so...my chiller stays clean after 3 years of this.

That said the blichmann chiller is not a good design.... it's an $80 chiller with a $120 nameplate /sticker...longer plates are always more efficient and less likely to contribute to plugging than more layers and 180 degree path bends.

 

[schematix]

The blichmann is amazing when doing a beer that has like 1-2oz of hops. It can handle that no problem. I've had some lagers recirculate 12G go from boil to 100 in about 5 minutes using winter tap water, then turn around and have it at 50F in the fermenter 10 minutes lager.

But go up to 4oz and it works better as a filter than a chiller. I jokingly refer to it as my hop filter.

Anyone want to buy one? I'll sell it cheap.

 

[brick_haus]

Well, as mentioned, I brew 15g batches and usually IIPAs. As an example, my current batch has 18oz of pellet hops in the boil/WP alone. 9.9oz reserved for the DH!

 

[brick_haus]

I don't think it's break material alone... I have never had an issue with break material in my duda plate chiller. I do use a hop spider and a stainless braided line attached to my diptube. I go from boiling to the fermenter in one pass so...my chiller stays clean after 3 years of this.



That said the blichmann chiller is not a good design.... it's an $80 chiller with a $120 nameplate /sticker...longer plates are always more efficient and less likely to contribute to plugging than more layers and 180 degree path bends.

Another post with useful information. I have read the information on Duda website, but never considered that less turns would reduce the chillers propensity to plug. [emoji106]

 

[IslandLizard]

Another post with useful information. I have read the information on Duda website,
But never considered that less turns
Would reduce the chillers propensity to plug. [emoji106]

From what I understand, the plates form parallel chambers, so the liquid only takes two 90° turns. One into a chamber and one out.

The problem is when chambers start to (partially) clog with hop matter, the open ones will take on the task, thus limiting flow through, while not helping to unplug the other ones. When cleaning, even using back flushes, you may not be successful unclogging all or any of those (partially) plugged chambers, as the open ones deroute most of the flow.

Solution:
You need to adequately filter hop sludge to prevent it from entering your plate chiller.

After flushing back and forth several times after each brew, every 2-4 brews I bake my 30-plate DudaDiesel chiller in a 450°F oven with the pizza or bread. Then after cooling, flush/back-flush again until the black flakes stop coming out. In addition, every 4-6 months I recirculate a (near) boiling concentrated PBW solution through the whole chilling/tubing system for a few hours.

Even after 5 years of pretty tight filtering and cleaning, I feel it's still shedding some larger ashed flakes from the early days when filtering was not as thorough. Although I don't have any noticeable flow restricted issues, I'm sure some chambers are still having some build-ups, that slowly flush out.

 

[brick_haus]

From what I understand, the plates form parallel chambers, so the liquid only takes two 90° turns. One into a chamber and one out.

The problem is when chambers start to (partially) clog with hop matter, the open ones will take on the task, thus limiting flow through, while not helping to unplug the other ones. When cleaning, even using back flushes, you may not be successful unclogging all or any of those (partially) plugged chambers, as the open ones deroute most of the flow.

Solution:
You need to adequately filter hop sludge.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you filter?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you don't mind me asking, how do you filter?

At the moment, for the time being, the main hop filtering is done using multiple weighted down fine mesh hop bags, ~200-300 micron openings, submerged in the wort. I agitate them well during the boil using a squeezing action with the stir paddle.

The second filter is a ~600 micron homemade "hop sausage" over the side pick-up diptube. Like a "hop taco" but instead of a pancake shaped, double sided filter lying on the bottom, it's sausage shaped and on the side.

Very fine hop dust still makes it out of the hop bags and settles with the break matter during the whirlpool on the bottom. However, during recirculation some of that fine sludge goes through the pump and plate chiller, but it's fine enough to prevent clogging or built-up anywhere.

To eliminate the hop bags, I'm either going to use a 6" hop basket or build a 300 micron hop taco-like filter.

Since I use induction as a heating source, I fear a hop taco lying on the bottom may cause scorching underneath the filter, hence fabricating some adapted shape seems necessary, leaving the 6-8" center of the bottom exposed.

 

[beermanpete]

I just orderd a Duda Diesel heat exchanger (B3-36A 30 plates) and a strainer from Brewers Hardware (https://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html). While figuring out what to buy I talked with Jason at Duda Diesel and he sent me report from some heat exchanger software he uses to detemine a suitable size for the heat exchanger. In this report there was a comment that the fluids flowing through the heat exchanger should be filtered with a screen in the 40 mesh to 20 mesh range to keep particles and debris out of the passages. The strainer from Brewer Hardware has an opening size that falls in the middle of the recommended range. Hopefully this will prevent blockages and keep the wort flowing freely.

 

[brick_haus]

I just orderd a Duda Diesel heat exchanger (B3-36A 30 plates) and a strainer from Brewers Hardware (https://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html).

Thats the filter that I have. It has plugged everytime that I have used it. I hope you have better luck than I do.

 

[mikescooling]

You asked about plate chillers. I don't tip the pot and leave the sludge in the bottom. I pressure can my plate chiller every now and then to break up the stuff inside it. And I back flush--> flush--> back flush again and again until I feel it's clean. My friends that use a tube in a tube CF chiller say they have less clogging problems.