Plate Chiller Technique?

[bmbigda]

I have brewed 5 batches now with my plate chiller and although I've learned some things, I don't think I've quite mastered it yet.

Some specifics:
- 40 plate chiller from DudaDiesel
- 10 gallon batches
- March Pump with output ball valve
- Town well water that fluctuates with the seasons, but has been 58 degrees the last few times I brewed.

This is my cooling process as of my last brewday:
- Plate chiller stands up on its side, long way is vertical. Wort-in is on the bottom, Water-in is on the top.
- Start out by recirculating back into the kettle, with a whirlpool. I let it run for a minute or so to sanitize, then turn on cold water. Ball valve is 100% open during recirc. In about 6-7 minutes the wort is down to 120.
- Now I drain into ferment buckets. I would say I need the ball valve about 33% open to get the 68 degrees I'm looking for. This takes another 10-12 minutes to fill 2 buckets, for a total cooling time of 15-20min.

I'm happy with that cooling time for a 10 gallon batch, but I don't have any brewing buddies that use plate chillers, so I wanted to compare notes just in case. The only variable I'm really not sure about is hose water flowrate.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

What is the temperature of the wort coming out of the chiller?
If the temperature is already at pitching temperature, then recirculating is self defeating.
Why take cooled wort and warm it back up again?

 

[aquenne]

I dont own a plate chiller, but my thoughts would be similar to OneHoppyGuy's comment..

After your 1 minute of full throttle sanitizing, why not try throttling the wort to 33% or less, and see what the temp is exiting the plate chiller.. if its in the 70deg range, just go right into the fermenter..

I guess the key would be, look at the temp at the output of the plate chiller, and not the total volume temperature in the kettle.

 

[bmbigda]

What is the temperature of the wort coming out of the chiller?
If the temperature is already at pitching temperature, then recirculating is self defeating.
Why take cooled wort and warm it back up again?

I'm a little confused by your question. At flameout, I start recirculating. So the 212 degree wort is being pumped out of the kettle, thru the chiller, and back into the kettle. This is mainly to whirlpool, but it gives the plate chiller a head start for the final chill into the fermenter. I found that if I try to run near-boiling wort thru the chiller, and right into the fermenter, its very hard to control the final temperature, and it has to drain veeeeeery slow.

Again, I'd love to hear other techniques because I don't doubt I'm doing something wrong

 

[bmbigda]

I dont own a plate chiller, but my thoughts would be similar to OneHoppyGuy's comment..

After your 1 minute of full throttle sanitizing, why not try throttling the wort to 33% or less, and see what the temp is exiting the plate chiller.. if its in the 70deg range, just go right into the fermenter..

I guess the key would be, look at the temp at the output of the plate chiller, and not the total volume temperature in the kettle.

yes sorry, i left out that going from boiling to 70 wasn't working out for me...see above

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

We were experiencing a drop to 110 degrees with 60 degree water. That's why developed this system:

 

[bmbigda]

We were experiencing a drop to 110 degrees with 60 degree water. That's why developed this system:

so you're sensing output temp rather than batch temp and can dial it right in?

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

yup
Temp out is the only thing that matters. The goal is to drop the temperature as rapidly as possible.

 

[bmbigda]

yup
Temp out is the only thing that matters. The goal is to drop the temperature as rapidly as possible.

and you dont batch cool/recirculate at all? just go from boiling, thru chiller, into fermenters?

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Here is a direct quote from John Palmer's 'How to Brew'

7.4 Cooling the Wort

At the end of the boil, it is important to cool the wort quickly. While it is still hot, (above 140°F) bacteria and wild yeasts are inhibited. But it is very susceptible to oxidation damage as it cools. There are also the previously mentioned sulfur compounds that evolve from the wort while it is hot. If the wort is cooled slowly, dimethyl sulfide will continue to be produced in the wort without being boiled off; causing off-flavors in the finished beer. The objective is to rapidly cool the wort to below 80°F before oxidation or contamination can occur.

Rapid cooling also forms the Cold Break. This is composed of another group of proteins that need to be thermally shocked into precipitating out of the wort. Slow cooling will not affect them. Cold break, or rather the lack of it, is the cause of Chill Haze. When a beer is chilled for drinking, these proteins partially precipitate forming a haze. As the beer warms up, the proteins re-dissolve. Only by rapid chilling from near-boiling to room temperature will the Cold Break proteins permanently precipitate and not cause Chill Haze. Chill haze is usually regarded as a cosmetic problem. You cannot taste it. However, chill haze indicates that there is an appreciable level of cold-break-type protein in the beer, which has been linked to long-term stability problems. Hazy beer tends to become stale sooner than non-hazy beer. The following are a few preferred methods for cooling the wort.

 

[RoadKing]

One thing I do during clean up is, put about 2 gallons of water and some PBW in mlt
bring it to 120 degrees and let it recirculate through chiller and back into kettle for awhile. After I dump that I'll flush it with fresh water.
I learned the hard way about keeping 'em clean, I had to dump 11 gallons which got infected and I traced it back to my dirty chiller.

 

[Bert1097]

If your ground water isn't cold enough to drop the wort to pitching temperature the first time through, you can hook up a prechiller w/ an ice bath or put a regulator on your wort, post-pump, to slow the flow thereby increasing the amount of time the wort has contact w/ the plate chiller.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

I use an immersion chiller to cool my wort, first with hose water to get it down a hundred degrees or so, and then I put the boil pot in an ice bath and hook up an inexpensive submersible fountain pump in the bath. This works really well. Our ground water in Charleston can be in the 80s during the summer, so I quickly hit the upper limit of how quickly hose water will cool down the wort.

 

[ekjohns]

I would lay your chiller down with all inputs and outputs facing up. I have been looking into getting a chiller and have talked to several people including the manufacturers and they all have told me that, that is the best way. They way you have it now is second best but can lead to air pockets being trapped in the water paths. What I would do is set the chiller down as I first mentioned then as it runs give it a few shakes to work air pockets out and I bet you will have better results. Lets us know either way

 

[bmbigda]

I will def try changing the chiller orientation.

Can anyone comment on effect of hose water flowrate?

 

[rmullins]

If you have 58 degree hose water you should have no issue going into the fermenter in a single pass.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Wait, so most people dial back on the wort going into the plate chiller? I always ran it full blast and recirculated. I assumed it took so long because I have a small 10 plate chiller.

 

[rmullins]

I throttle the output of the chiller

 

[iijakii]

Well it might be because you have a small plate chiller, lol. But basically if you dial back the flow then the wort moves through the pipe slower = more contact time to transfer heat to the pipe.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

I throttled back my water thinking that would increase heat transfer. hrmmm.

 

[iijakii]

I may be mistaken, but I don't really see how water-flow would make much of a difference besides saving water. If you have it too fast then all it does is waste water. It's when you have the wort-flow too fast then it affects wort-cooling.

 

[ekjohns]

throttle the wort out. there should be no throttle of the wort in or water in or out

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Yea it was mostly to save water. (figured it was better a little warm water comes out then a ton of cold water)
I'll definitely have to try turning down input to my kettle =D I assumed wort flow didnt matter since the slightly cooled wort was going back into the warmer wort and cooling it.

 

[ekjohns]

if your recirculating i would not throttle at all until your getting close to target temp, assuming the water out isnt cold but hot

 

[iijakii]

Well basically heat transfer should occur fairly quick, but it's not instantaneous or anything. You should slow your wort output if it's not dropping that much. Your water-output should be quite warm. If it isn't, slow it so you aren't wasting water.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

How do you know your pitching temps if you aren't recirculating? Is it just a matter of dialing in the first pass? It seems rather hard to repeat with precision.
Could I throttle back on my pump output/kettle input with similar results using recirculation?

 

[ekjohns]

most people attach a dial thermometer to the output of the plate chiller and adjust the ball valve on the output of the chiller to hit proper temps. I wouldnt throttle anything before the output of the chiller that way the chiller stays full

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Bah, to think I just put a thermometer on my BK to monitor cooled temps.

 

[iijakii]

Yeah I'm just going to whirlpool, recirculate and measure my temps in the kettle. I'd assume your ground-water temperatures there in Georgia are hot-as-balls like here in Texas. You shouldn't have to worry about over-cooling by recirculating more than one pass, even in winter.

But if you want you can always buy a simple T and attach a thermometer to the wort-output.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Yea water is like 80*F already this year.