Plastic vs. Glass - A question to consider

[tnlandsailor]

I've long been a proponent of glass fermenters, but I've never dissed anyone who uses plastic with success. But I was thinking about plastic and wondered about something. Here is my question:

If you make a beer, ferment it in plastic, and later determine that the beer spoiled somehow - for any reason - can the plastic fermenter ever be trusted and/or effectively sanitized for subsequent batches of beer? Even if the plastic wasn't the root cause of the infection, the plastic was still exposed to spoiling bacteria. Can it be salvaged?

 

[Darth Konvel]

I'd guess that a good hot soak of bleach solution will get just about anything that could come in contact with your beer. If the bleach can't get to it, it probably can't get to your beer.

Then again, I'm not expert on plastics, and quite frankly, I'd be afraid of leaving a strong bleach solution in a plastic container for the amount of time most likely needed for it to be effective. Maybe a good long soak with some other cleaner that wouldn't adversely affect the plastic.

 

[Walker]

I think that soaking plastic with HOT bleach water might cause the bleach to settle into the plastic. It might kill any nasties, but you might have a bleach smell that you can't get to go away.

No proof of this, just a hunch..

-walker

 

[cowain]

I've been brewing for 2 and a half years now virtually always using plastics as my primary and I've never had a bad batch. Just don't scratch the crap out of it and be sure to sanitize everything.

 

[tnlandsailor]

I've been brewing for 2 and a half years now virtually always using plastics as my primary and I've never had a bad batch. Just don't scratch the crap out of it and be sure to sanitize everything.

That's not the question. If you DID have a bad batch, could you ever trust your plastic fermenter again?

 

[HomerT]

That's not the question. If you DID have a bad batch, could you ever trust your plastic fermenter again?

If you had a bad batch that was done in a glass primary, how would it be any different? You have no way of knowing the cause of the contamintation. Now, if you had two or three bad batches, and the only common link was your primary, then I would question it.

Take that all with a grain of salt, though...I am a newbie. My fisrt batch (plastic primary, glass secondary) was just bottled last weekend.

-Todd

 

[tnlandsailor]

Let's try again.

I'm not looking for the cause of the infection. Let's just say the beer spoiled somewhere along the line and came out of the plastic primary and tasted like pond water. Now that your plastic primary has contained spoiled beer, could it ever be effectively cleaned and sanitized again, even if it wasn't the original source of the infection? Plastic does hold on to odors and flavors, I was just curious if it would actually "hold on" to spoiling bacteria or wild yeast.

 

[Walker]

If you had a bad batch that was done in a glass primary, how would it be any different?

glass is hard and not porous and will not harbor things in tiny scratches. that's his concern with plastic. If something infected a batch in plastic, might it have taken up secret residence in the fermenter? COuld you trust that plastic to not infect the next batch?

-walker

 

[El Pistolero]

Let's try again.

I'm not looking for the cause of the infection. Let's just say the beer spoiled somewhere along the line and came out of the plastic primary and tasted like pond water. Now that your plastic primary has contained spoiled beer, could it ever be effectively cleaned and sanitized again, even if it wasn't the original source of the infection? Plastic does hold on to odors and flavors, I was just curious if it would actually "hold on" to spoiling bacteria or wild yeast.

I'm with you tn...I had a batch spoil, more the fault of a hurricane than anything else I think, and I'm sure I won't ever use that bucket again. In fact I'm not even sure if I want to use it as a cleaning bucket.

 

[cowain]

yep, I still think it'd be fine. The sanitizer would kill virtually all of the nasties that were present anywhere in the bucket and, personally, I don't think that the food grade plastic used in fermenting buckets is very porous and harbors much taste.

 

[Pimp Juice]

If theres a spoiled batch, the fermentor should be fine after the one-step cleaning. If that makes you feel uneasy theres the hot water, I think 160 degrees kills bacteria?

 

[Walker]

I thought it was 180, but you have a good point nonetheless.

Just heat that sucker up and anything hiding anywhere in it will croak.

Ok.. so to answer the original question: Yes, I would trust it again after filling it with just boiling water.

-walker

 

[Porter fan]

Yea I did it,Had a bach go bad and just cleaned the buckett with a bleach solution for 24hrs along with tubing,racking cane.Three since and all is good.

 

[Thor]

As I understand it, food-grade plastic is non-absorbant. If your fermenter is food-grade, as it would be for most brewing kits, a standard soaking in 1-2 tablespoons of unscented bleach will kill all the nasties.

What you need to check is the condition of the plastic. Sneaky little SOBs, bacteria hide in scratches in said plastic. If the container is scratched, you might scrap it, but if not, a long sterlizing soak will do the trick.

Think about it. If your batch was contaminated, it could have happened at any stage. If you decided to toss the bucket, why not toss the hose, the bottle filler, the cover, etc etc etc? Reading this board, a number of folks have had a batch go bad and, using the same equipment (sometimes plastic), been successful.

Good luck.

 

[ScottT]

yep, I still think it'd be fine. The sanitizer would kill virtually all of the nasties that were present anywhere in the bucket and, personally, I don't think that the food grade plastic used in fermenting buckets is very porous and harbors much taste.

This from someone who has worked as a commercial food processor for over 12 years.

We don't even re-use ingredient buckets for mixing or holding other products because of the flavors that are retained by the food grade plastic.

Even honey, lemon, ginger, raspberry, horseradish, soy sauce, worcestershire sauce, anchovey paste, ... the smells from each will will permeate the plastic and we clean with caustic chemicals.

Yes, you can pull some of the smell out but you won't get all of it even with bleach. You can sanatize it but smells and flavors will cary over.

 

[Cheesefood]

Yes, you can pull some of the smell out but you won't get all of it even with bleach. You can sanatize it but smells and flavors will cary over.

Ever try to clean a pickle jar? You can wash them over and over, but it'll still smell like pickles, unless you have a commercial glass cleaner designed to clean the pores in the glass. Yes, glass too is porous, just not AS porous.

I've washed pickle jars in the dishwasher, soaked them in soap, bleach, amonia, etc. They end up smelling like pickles.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ever try to clean a pickle jar?

You're not supposed to clean your pickle jars...save them for drinking moonshine out of.

 

[Dude]

They end up smelling like pickles.

Pickles ROCK!

 

[sudsmonkey]

Texas and moonshine.... Had a plastic water cooler jug when I was a kid. Put coffee in it once. After that, my water tasted like coffee forevermore. Beer is a different critter entirely. I'd bleach the crap out of the fermenter and keep on running with it. Damn the Nasties, full speed ahead !
Orrelse, where'd you get the Pickles Rock smiley ? How 'bout a dill pickle brew ? A Dill Dopplebock ? A Pickle Pilsner ? Is this the Drunken Ramblings column ? Sorry guys !

 

[God Emporer BillyBrew]

I've always thought that I was smelling the plastic in the lid on pickle jars.

 

[Brew Runner]

I've always thought that I was smelling the plastic in the lid on pickle jars.

You are. Glass truly does not hold residual flavors, but reusing the lid of a pickle jar can spoil your day. And yes, I would keep using a plastic fermenter even if a batch went south in it.