Plans for my first sour on the cheap

[timdillon36]

After doing a lot of research and planning I think I have a game plan to try to do a berliner weisse.

From my research I haven't found a set process for this style and came up with a game plan based on what I have on hand and when I can get to the LHBS to get the rest.

Fair warning now, this is going to get long winded.

I have about 1.5lb of uncrushed us 2 row in a zip lock. I plan on crushing 1lb and mashing that in 3qt of h2o at 150 and collecting about 2 qt of wort. After cooling to about 100 pour wort back into ziploc with remaining .5lb uncrushed grain and purge with co2 and seal up and keep warm, 90-100 for 3-4 days.
(Side note I'm away for work and will get home Tuesday night and plan on doing this part with what I have on hand)

Then get grain bill from LHBS during week and brew on Friday.
6G batch

4lb us 2 row
4lb wheat

Mash at 150, full volume no sparge. Heat to boil and chill to 100 and pitch lacto starter. Purge with co2 and keep covered and warm for a few days. (I have tested and over a few days I can maintain that temp in my oven using just the light for heat.)

Reserve 2qt of wort for yeast starter. Pick a yeast from yeast bank, I'm thinking 1084 but not sure yet.

3 daysh I will bring soured wort to a short boil and add some hops. (Probably what I have on hand, .5oz cascade @15 and .5oz centennia @fo ) chill to 65 and pitch yeast and let it ride for the next few weeks that I'm gone.

Please pick this apart and give me your input. I have about a week till I start this and will update with photos.

 

[Agate]

My honest opinion, you're over complicating it with the grain starter, purging with CO2, and maintaining heat.

The best sources for souring wort for this style of beer, in my experience, is omega labs' OYL-605, good belly probiotic juice, or Swanson lacto-p probiotic capsules. Good belly is cheap if you have it locally (it only takes 8 oz or so) and swanson's lacto-p is like $8 for 30 capsules, and it only takes 3 in a 1-liter starter for a few days to sour 5 gallons wort. And it'll do it in under 24 hours at room temperature.

My recommendation, make a 1-liter starter a couple days ahead of time, just like a yeast starter, with one of the above lacto sources. Make your wort per your recipe above (looks great, no hops pre souring!), short boil, chill to 90-100°F, drop your kettle pH to 4.5-4.8; and pitch your lacto starter in your kettle. Don't purge, don't insulate, just put the lid on tight to keep dust and bugs out and let her go.

I usually have pH of 3.2-3.3 at 18 hours, which is perfect for my taste. Boil your wort and hop if desired, cool to yeast pitching temps, aerate really well, and give it a large pitch of yeast. I usually turn around a Berliner weisse in about 10 days with this method.

Using grain for a souring culture can work, but there's a lot of risk involved and it would be a shame for it to spoil your first experience.

Good luck! Once you've done it once or twice, you'll realize how easy these beers can be!

 

[timdillon36]

Thanks for your quick and detailed reply. I have read about and looked into using probiotics for this and know it would be more controlled and easier but what I also didn't mention is in future batches I would like this to b an all local brew.

If it doesn't work I'm out my time and 10 bucks In grain and then I might try a cultured lacto.

It is wild brewing, right?

 

[Godot]

Keep us informed Timdillon36. I'm interested to see how your plan works out.

 

[Agate]

In that case, just keep in mind you're likely to have some wild yeast in your grain starter and will have some or a lot of attenuation. The couple of times I've used grain starters, the sugars were pretty much fermented out by the time it was sour enough. This may affect your decision to boil afterwords.

Instead of boiling, I've held the soured wort at 160-170°F for 20 minutes or so. This should be sufficient time to pasteurize and kill off any bacteria in your wort that can survive in a low ph alcoholic environment. It should also minimize ethanol evaporation. And it's the perfect temperature for a hop steep!

 

[kingwood-kid]

When I've used grain to sour, I used a small handful to sour the entire batch, and my gravity was at zero after 5 days without adding yeast. I was drinking bottle-conditioned beer 10 days after I brewed it. In my opinion, to brew a Berliner you just need to mash and add some grain when its under 120F. There's lots of other ways to do it, and they're not wrong, but what I've done has always worked fine for me. A 5-gallon batch for $8 worth of ingredients and no propane certainly meets the on the cheap criteria.

 

[timdillon36]

So I started this tonight. The idea of just adding grain to the mash was tempting in its simplicity but I wanted to make a starter like I do with any beer I make for the same reason, to harvest from that starter. I also made the wort for the starter from grain as a test of process for 1 gal batches.

I took plenty of pics but can't get them to load at this time but will try.

I used magic bullet to crush the grain in small batches while I was making dinner. After the grain was crushed I was ready to mash in but I forgot to heat my strike water but u did have a pot of hot water ready for some pasta. That hot water went in the MT that is usually used as a crock pot and then added grain and stirred. I checked temp and at 157 added 1 ice cube and hit 152. That will work.

My crock pot has a temp probe and a program able setting so I used that set at 150. (5° increments )

After dinner and dishes I checked and the temp was 151. I was ready to collect the wort but it was bath time for the kids is I decided to see how long it would take to raise to a mash out of 170. Hit a few buttons and ran some water.

Kids in bed and went back and it was at 170, 40 min later.

using a strainer I collected wort and cooled to 100 and poured back into the bag of grain and put in the oven with the light on.

Let the fun begin