Pitching Sach and dregs only?

[SethMasterFlex]

I didn't try my first sour until earlier this year. I then read "Wild Brews" and brewed my first sour. Now I'm just back from the GABF, and man, I have certainly caught "the bug". I can't stop thinking about horsey, fruity, and deliciously sour beer.

I'm going to be making a few more sours in the near future, and most with conventional cultures from wyeast or white labs. While I was in Denver, though, I picked up some Supplication and Consecration (I also have access to Jolly Pumpkin in my area). It got me thinking, and in the spirit of wild beer, I'd like to brew a batch with just Sach and dregs as the only bugs if at all possible. Understandably, not all bacteria will have survived in the dregs and populations may be off.

Is it possible to brew a top notch sour beer with just Sach and dregs from a couple bottles? Or will the bacteria/Brett populations be way off and produce inconsistent results?

 

[1234]

Make sure to taste some of the beers before pitching the dregs. I do not like any of the Jolly Pumpkin stuff, haven't had them all, and I find that they have a really aggressive yeast strains that leaves my mouth thinking of pickles/vinegar.

I am not experienced enough yet to answer the other questions. I do have 2 five gallon batches of Flanders Red again right now, along with 5 gallons of Berliner Weiss that is ready to be kegged.

 

[SethMasterFlex]

I love Jolly Pumpkin! Just had a bunch at the GABF and was talking to one of the brewers and was told they open ferment, hence why they might be unbalanced or seem that way over time. To each his own, though .

I'm more interested in whether I can get suitable amounts of Brett, lacto, and pedio from dregs and if it will produce a nice beer if pitched with or after normal brewers yeast. I'd rather use the Russian River stuff to have something Russian River-esque of my own making in Chicago.

 

[annasdadhockey]

Just pitch the dregs into a starter and feed it for awhile to build the cell count. I did that with 2 bottles of Victory Wild Devil, and it worked great.

 

[ashmgee]

look at the thread "easy to make sours bottle dregs"

almighty seems to have experimented with these techniques with good success. I just started a batch and definitely have fermentation now.

can't say that there is any consistency to the process, but that is probably true of any of these. one reason that with this style you tend to see a lot of blending of batches to highlight what you are looking for.

almighty seems to post here with some regularity so I'll let him chime in with more knowledge than I have on the subject.

 

[Calder]

The fresher the better, (the bugs will eventually die as their food supplies end). With a reasonably 'new' bottle you should get a full suite of bugs and Brett. I suspect the Sacc would be the first to go.

I just added the dregs from a couple of bottles of JP to my mix that I will be using this weekend. Wanted a little more aggressive cocktail. The bottles I used had bottling dates of 4/2011 and 7/2011.

 

[ryane]

RR bottles will have a lot of wine yeast, as thats what they use for bottle conditioning

In my experience with JP, they always take off like gangbusters (bottles are usually pretty fresh) I do prefer the lower alc JP though as the higher grav stuff tends to produce yeast that are more strongly phenolic. Calabaza blanca has always been a great one to use for me

 

[SethMasterFlex]

RR bottles will have a lot of wine yeast, as thats what they use for bottle conditioning

I've heard Supplication does not contain wine yeast (though I could be wrong on this part). Is this really a concern if I'm letting regular yeast ferment out first? The wine yeast shouldn't have much sugars left to eat that the regular strain didn't eat correct?

 

[Almighty]

It works and I have found pretty well at that. For Russian River beers you will want to see what batch you have a compare to their bottle log.
Consecration
http://www.russianriverbrewing.com/pages/bottle/consecration.html
Supplication
http://www.russianriverbrewing.com/pages/bottle/supplication.html

You more than likely have a recent batch so it will be bottle conditioned with Brett and wine yeast.

I have had good luck just adding the dregs and no other Sacc yeast, but this is for 1 gallon batches and the bottles are pretty fresh. I also do 1 gal batches just in case the dregs aren't great, but to be honest I haven't had any awful dregs yet. Just some that aren't as great as the beer it came from.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2010/10/dreg-series-russian-river-golden-sour.html

If you are doing a larger batch I would recommend that in addition to the dregs you pitch some Sacc yeast. And I would pitch a Belgian strain - the extra esters and phenols that are created really add some nice complexity as the Brett takes over.

One way at looking at this is how the original beers are brewed. The brewers clean the barrels and then rely on the bugs in the wood to inoculate the batch (think of the concentration of bugs in 60 gals).

Brewing these types of beers is a long process and the bugs will have time to reproduce. I think it helpful to pitch a Sacc strain initially to make sure the correct organisms dominant (not Acetobacter).

And Jolly Pumkin dregs are very aggressive as mentioned earlier. They are great for bottle dosing Saisons, a quick flavor change.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2010/08/dreg-series-black-jolly-sour.html

 

[smokinghole]

I almost think a belgian strain is necessary for brett to produce some of the compounds it makes. There certain esters and other compounds produced by sacch yeast that brett will utilize during its growth contributing to the overall flavor and aroma from brett.

 

[SethMasterFlex]

Thanks for the great response! I find these types of beers refreshing and a welcomed break from the common IPA/overly hopped extravaganza (nothing wrong with IPA's, just too pervasive in the craft beer world). Their individuality and uniqueness from beer to beer is just astounding and is really driving me to explore everything the style has to offer.

I'm definitely going to be giving the dregs a shot in addition to some Belgian yeast. Hopefully, when I have a "wild" pipeline going, I'll have some available beers to blend with if needed too.

 

[Almighty]

Creating the sour beer pipeline is the way too go. With these beers it is easy to become impatient and drink the beer before their optimum date.

Please update us on your progress with using the dregs. It is always nice to hear other's experiences.

 

[SethMasterFlex]

Creating the sour beer pipeline is the way too go. With these beers it is easy to become impatient and drink the beer before their optimum date.

Please update us on your progress with using the dregs. It is always nice to hear other's experiences.

I will most certainly do. I'm going to cook something up in the next month as I can't wait to open up some of those RR bottles.