Pilsner ale - recipe ok?

[Nordman]

With the goal of brewing a 19l/5gal batch of something easily drinkable for people not into heavy beers, does this seem ok?

Looking for that golden pilsner color, not the watery bud lite color, but I want to be careful not to get the darker golden color you usually have in pale ales.

Beersmith says 10.3 ebc...


Grain bill:

80% Pilsner 3ebc
16% Vienna 8ebc
2% Wheat 5ebc
2% Crystal 120ebc

90m boil

Hop schedule:

60m
10g(1/3oz) northern brewer 10%

15m
30g(1oz) saaz 2.3%

5m
30g(1oz) saaz 2.3%


Beersmith says 19.3 IBU and estimated OG 1.049


I'll use nottingham or safale us-05, have both on hand. Lagering is not an option.

Any thoughts?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Honestly, if you're looking to brew a Pilsner fermented with ale yeast, skip all other malts but the Pils malt. 100% Pils will give you a nice gold color, and will be light and drinkable like you said you wanted. Also, again, if you're looking to emulate a Pils, you'd want more IBUs than 19.3. But, if you're not looking to meet more criteria for a Pils, 19.3 IBU will still make a pleasant beer, just more in the Helles realm.

At what temp(s) do you plan to mash? Can you keep the ferment under 68F (20C)? I'd recommend the US-05 rather than Notty, IMO.

 

[Falcon3]

I agree with Above poster.

100% pils (possibly some acidulated for PH)
60min hop to 25-30IBU
Flavor/Aroma hop to 5-10IBU

Use super clean ale yeast-Previous poster was right on with US05- then "lager" it for a month or three after the bottles carb (meaning just keep some bottles in the fridge for a long time after you carb). It will help develop the crisp character of a lager even though you used ale yeast-

 

[Nordman]

You're sure 100% pilsner wouldn't look more like this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sUt7RqJ-zFA/UG8z_F1_BRI/AAAAAAAAJ_c/p4pSUC46xfA/s1600/Bud-Light-Platinum.jpg than this http://www.theperfectlyhappyman.com/uploads/pilsner-urquell.jpg?

 

[Nordman]

Looking for the Pilsner Urquell color, not the Bud Lite color by the way...

 

[Yooper]

Looking for the Pilsner Urquell color, not the Bud Lite color by the way...

Definitely ditch the crystal 120L. It's really dark.

I do a beer that is 30% pilsner, and 70% Vienna malt: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/fizzy-yellow-beer-120939/ It's a nice color, about 5 SRM, and most people who aren't into craft beers will find it inoffensive. It's definitely darker than a light American lager. Pilsners are 3.5-6 SRM generally, and this is right in there.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

You're sure 100% pilsner wouldn't look more like this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sUt7RqJ-zFA/UG8z_F1_BRI/AAAAAAAAJ_c/p4pSUC46xfA/s1600/Bud-Light-Platinum.jpg than this http://www.theperfectlyhappyman.com/uploads/pilsner-urquell.jpg?

Yes, I'm sure. Here's a link to my German Pils recipe that has 96.2% Pils malt, 1.7% melanoidin, and some acidulated malt for pH.

You won't get the color of Bud Light with an all malt brew.

 

[Falcon3]

Yes, I'm sure. Here's my German Pils recipe that has 96.2% Pils malt, 1.7% melanoidin, and some acidulated malt for pH.

You won't get the color of Bud Light with all malt.

Yup- I just did a GPils with .5lb Vienna - the rest Pilsner malt- it is about the same color-

 

[bstacy1974]

Try this one. I used 6 row because I had it. Used the "specs" of Pilsner Urquell, except for ABV.
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/430503/pilsner-ale

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Try this one. I used 6 row because I had it. Used the "specs" of Pilsner Urquell, except for ABV.
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/430503/pilsner-ale

That recipe only meets 1 out of 5 of the specs for a Czech Pils (e.g. Urquell). I wouldn't recommend using either 6-row or any caramel malt in a Pils, either. No disrespect to that beer you listed there, but it's no Pilsner - whether an ale or lager.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Here is an excellent article on the history and brewing techniques of Urquell.

If you want to make an authentic (although ale) version of Urquell, use only Pilsner malt and Saaz hops, use the softest water you can, do a triple decoction mash, boil for a looong time, and ferment as cold as you can.

Otherwise, you can compromise a bit (this is for 11 gallon batch):

14.5 lbs Pils malt
1.25 lbs melanoidin malt
5 oz. acidulated malt

Mash at 154 for 60 minutes, mashout to 168 for 10.

Boil for 120 minutes, using Saaz FWH bittering to 25 IBU. Another ~13 IBU at 30 min, and ~2 IBU at 15. Totaling ~40 IBU.

Ferment cold with US-05 or other neutral ale yeast, let cold condition for at least 2 months.



If you just want a clean, easy drinking but pleasant light "lager-like" ale, use 100% Pilsner malt, noble hops, 30-40 IBU, ferment cold with US-05, and cold condition for a couple months.

/two pennies

 

[Nordman]

By cold conditioning, would bottling, then letting it carbonate for 2-3 weeks and then putting the bottles for 2 months in the fridge work similarly?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

By cold conditioning, would bottling, then letting it carbonate for 2-3 weeks and then putting the bottles for 2 months in the fridge work similarly?

Absolutely!

 

[RonPopeil]

Pils is a hard style to sneak around about. It's really super basic ingredient wise. It's all about the mash. Try:

Start with 8 gallons of distilled water. If you want to treat it use two tsp each of gypsum and CaCl.

10# pils
.5# acid malt

Dough in at 133 to hit 125. Rest for 20 mins then pull 3/4 of the grain from the tun. Bring to a boil and let stand for 5-10 minutes then return to mash. Rest for 30-45 minutes. You should be able to reach 140's. Pull the same amount of grain again and boil. Return and hit 150's. Again for 160's. Vorlauf, drain, sparge @ 168-170 (I batch sparge). Collect as much as possible. Top off to hit 7 gallons and boil for 90 minutes. At 60 begin your hop schedule. Target IBU is around 30 utilizing a 60 minute addition and a 20 minute addition.

As for cold conditioning, I'd probably only lager for 3-4 weeks. Keep your hop flavors some what intact.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Pils is a hard style to sneak around about. It's really super basic ingredient wise. It's all about the mash. Try:

Start with 8 gallons of distilled water. If you want to treat it use two tsp each of gypsum and CaCl.

10# pils
.5# acid malt

Dough in at 133 to hit 125. Rest for 20 mins then pull 3/4 of the grain from the tun. Bring to a boil and let stand for 5-10 minutes then return to mash. Rest for 30-45 minutes. You should be able to reach 140's. Pull the same amount of grain again and boil. Return and hit 150's. Again for 160's. Vorlauf, drain, sparge @ 168-170 (I batch sparge). Collect as much as possible. Top off to hit 7 gallons and boil for 90 minutes. At 60 begin your hop schedule. Target IBU is around 30 utilizing a 60 minute addition and a 20 minute addition.

As for cold conditioning, I'd probably only lager for 3-4 weeks. Keep your hop flavors some what intact.

I agree with the above, except for mashing at any temperature below 140F. Today's malts, yes even the majority of European Pilsner malts, are well modified, and do not benefit from extended protein rests. A decoction mash as you describe is still possible with doughing in towards the bottom of beta amylase rest (~140F) and decocting to step into additional beta and alpha rests with mashout. Ex: 140 (strike), 145, 155, 168 (M.O.), or similar. Also, for a German PIls, I'd recommend 35-40 IBU. And finally, an extended lagering period is still recommended, since Pilsners aren't necessarily forward with hop nose like a Pale or IPA, despite boasting higher end IBUs.

 

[RonPopeil]

I like doing P rests

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I like doing P rests

That's your prerogative, but it's potentially doing your beer a disservice.

 

[RonPopeil]

That's your prerogative, but it's potentially doing your beer a disservice.

I've heard that but I've never heard anyone say why.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I've heard that but I've never heard anyone say why.

Without getting into too much detail, it's simply because of the fact that those "rests" were already undergone during the malting process. A fully modified malt has undergone a temperature step process during malting that allows the complete breakdown of proteins and glucans. These fully modified malts now only require starch conversion from the brewer and nothing further. Under-modified malts (which are extremely rare nowadays) have only undergone partial breakdown of proteins and glucans, and therefore would require the brewer to first rest their mash in the beta glucanase and protein steps before beginning to convert starches in beta and alpha amylase rests.

 

[RonPopeil]

So everything up to the sach rest is done, basically.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Basically, yes. All that's required is a sacch rest in the brewery.