PicoBrew Zymatic

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Bobbytuck, have you been using the Single Step Infusion mash or the High Efficiency Mash? Notice a difference?

My first couple of brews I used single infusion, but then tried the high efficiency since it reduced the amount of grain I needed. Annie said it didn't matter but since you've done so many batches I'd like to get your input.
 
Bobbytuck, have you been using the Single Step Infusion mash or the High Efficiency Mash? Notice a difference?

.

As you say, the high efficiency "George Fix" mash does seem to decrease the grain. But it also adds a bit of time to the brew day -- not much -- but enough so that if I'm pressed for time, I just opt for a normal, single-temp mash.
 
Can a plate chiller be used with the Zymatic? I'm looking to simplify my process. For me, the 2.5 gal is a plus.

Thanks

Marty
 
Can a plate chiller be used with the Zymatic? I'm looking to simplify my process. For me, the 2.5 gal is a plus.

Thanks

Marty

Yes -- but (IMHO) a plate chiller is just complicating the Pico process. Adding time to your brew day for cleanup, sanitation, etc. The great thing about the Pico is that it's self-contained -- and can pretty much stay self-contained until you're done with fermentation.

What I do simply put the (very hot!) wort keg in a 5 gallon bucket of tap water. 20 minutes and a couple water changes later, the wort is at 95F. The Pico's circulation helps speed the cooling. It's not a plate chiller -- but the circulation helps quite a bit.

Then I either let the 95F wort cool the rest of the way down in my basement overnight -- or speed it slightly by putting it my ferm chamber at 50F or so.

Either way, I'm usually pitching the first thing in the morning or late in the evening. No issues -- and nothing additional to clean up. It's pretty nice, actually.
 
Yes -- but (IMHO) a plate chiller is just complicating the Pico process. Adding time to your brew day for cleanup, sanitation, etc. The great thing about the Pico is that it's self-contained -- and can pretty much stay self-contained until you're done with fermentation.

What I do simply put the (very hot!) wort keg in a 5 gallon bucket of tap water. 20 minutes and a couple water changes later, the wort is at 95F. The Pico's circulation helps speed the cooling. It's not a plate chiller -- but the circulation helps quite a bit.

Then I either let the 95F wort cool the rest of the way down in my basement overnight -- or speed it slightly by putting it my ferm chamber at 50F or so.

Either way, I'm usually pitching the first thing in the morning or late in the evening. No issues -- and nothing additional to clean up. It's pretty nice, actually.

Why even bother chilling then if you wait until the next day to pitch? Just go no chill, but for those that want to chill quickly as possible I don't think it'd be that much more work to add a chiller. Especially when the cleaning cycle on the zymatic will help clean the chiller too.
 
Why even bother chilling then if you wait until the next day to pitch? .

If you're doing an IPA -- or anything hop forward -- you'll want to chill it down to at least pre-pitching temps. I could see no-chill with malty beers, I guess.

But -- here's the thing -- the Pico has the built-in pump(s) -- which actually help oxygenate the wort as it circulates (and chills!).

That's the other plus with the Pico -- no need for external oxygenation apparatus. Just circulate the wort 20 minutes or so after the boil to oxygenate. After 20-30 minutes, though, the foam really starts to build. That's why I kickstart the chilling with a couple changes of tap water, pull it at 95F, and -- boom. Brew day is done. (Except for running a couple rinse cycles on the Pico).
 
Already brewed a couple batches and never had an issue with foam what causes this to happen?

There's quite a bit of aeration as the beer gets pumped through the keg and back into the Pico. Obviously, this is great when you're done brewing and want to inject O2 into the cooling wort, but if you let the cooling continue to run as the wort cools (especially once it hits 80F to 90F -- usually after 15-20 minutes especially if you're using a bag of ice in your bucket) the foam starts to creep out the foam trap. It's essentially the same thing that happens when you keep your O2 wand on too long when it's submerged in cooled wort -- tiny bubble foam starts creeping up and out of the fermenter.

One thing I've heard that inhibits the foam (apart from anti-foam -- which works nicely) is if you add some salts to the boil (as opposed to the mash). I'm not sure I understand this -- since the salts are primarily for the mash and the mash pH -- but I remember reading this on the Pico forums. Not sure.

It's never been an issue for me. I've seen it, but I realized how to deal with it -- and now I don't worry about it. When the Pico first came out and the reviews were popping up, the foam issue (always during extended cooling) came up with nearly every reviewer.

*shrug*
 
Yes -- but (IMHO) a plate chiller is just complicating the Pico process. Adding time to your brew day for cleanup, sanitation, etc. The great thing about the Pico is that it's self-contained -- and can pretty much stay self-contained until you're done with fermentation.

What I do simply put the (very hot!) wort keg in a 5 gallon bucket of tap water. 20 minutes and a couple water changes later, the wort is at 95F. The Pico's circulation helps speed the cooling. It's not a plate chiller -- but the circulation helps quite a bit.

Then I either let the 95F wort cool the rest of the way down in my basement overnight -- or speed it slightly by putting it my ferm chamber at 50F or so.

Either way, I'm usually pitching the first thing in the morning or late in the evening. No issues -- and nothing additional to clean up. It's pretty nice, actually.

The walls of those kegs are very thin and this is what I know I'll be doing. A few fills of a bucket is not a lot of work in the big picture for me. And the ability to ferm chamber chill or no chill? Heck yeah!
 
Can a plate chiller be used with the Zymatic? I'm looking to simplify my process. For me, the 2.5 gal is a plus.

Thanks

Marty

It took me going through the headache of outfitting a plate chiller and then using it to figure out that...I agree with BobbyTuck. I've used it about 6 times, several times were a huge mess, several worked fine- all were a pain in the ass. I never get the temp to drop as quickly as I think it should be (probably 50-60F groundwater) and end up using 10+ gallons of water to chill 3 gallons of beer.

I've used ice and buckets for the past few brews, just as fast, less of a headache. I purchased a 20 gallon trash can and plan to try freezing a few blocks of ice and doing my chill all in 1 go without switching buckets.




Already brewed a couple batches and never had an issue with foam what causes this to happen?

I find that the longer you circulate while you chill, the more likely it is to foam over. YMMV.
 
I agree with abandoning the plate chiller, too much effort for too little benefit in this case(My plate chiller is going up for sale shortly). A quick homemade copper immersion chiller get's my chill cycle done in about 20 minutes into the mid 80s with no ice. My fermenter (with a cooling jacket) brought it the rest of the way to pitching temps in about 4 hours.

I'm going to try with ice this time around (mashing now) and see how it goes.
 
I agree with abandoning the plate chiller, too much effort for too little benefit in this case(My plate chiller is going up for sale shortly). A quick homemade copper immersion chiller get's my chill cycle done in about 20 minutes into the mid 80s with no ice. My fermenter (with a cooling jacket) brought it the rest of the way to pitching temps in about 4 hours.

I'm going to try with ice this time around (mashing now) and see how it goes.


I use two 7lb bags of ice and about 2 gallons of water in a bucket while recirculating in the chill cycle. This gets me into the 80s in 20-25 minutes. Once foam appears, I stop the chill cycle, put the keg in the ferm chamber, and in a few hours I'm ready to pitch.
 
Bobbytuck, have you been using the Single Step Infusion mash or the High Efficiency Mash? Notice a difference?

My first couple of brews I used single infusion, but then tried the high efficiency since it reduced the amount of grain I needed. Annie said it didn't matter but since you've done so many batches I'd like to get your input.


To me, the real advantage of the HE mash is that it reduces the grain bill enough to, in most cases, increase the batch size to 3.25 gallons or so. I've found that I can increase the batch size of the recipe until the starting volume of water in the brewing keg is around 4 gallons. I haven't tried going any higher than that because 1) I fear over-taxing the machine, and 2) I don't want to put too much wort in the keg and have to deal with using a blow off tube.
 
Yes -- but (IMHO) a plate chiller is just complicating the Pico process. Adding time to your brew day for cleanup, sanitation, etc. The great thing about the Pico is that it's self-contained -- and can pretty much stay self-contained until you're done with fermentation.


Except for when you pitch the yeast.
 
Hi All - Hoping to get some quick advice/validation. I used to be way into brewing, built a big 20g 3-vessel rig, ended up downsizing a few years ago down to a 3gal single vessel electric BIAB setup as I NEVER have time for a long brewday and dont need 20g anyhow. I then went the direction of automating it via raspberry pi, relays, etc. Got it mostly automated, but still a lot of kinks and issues to work out AND we've moved twice since then so its all in pieces and shambles at the moment. And I'm not sure i will have the time/energy to work through getting it perfected as my new job is taking most of my mindshare right now. Anyhow, I ran across the zymatic and thought it may fit the bill to get my back to brewing asap as I think it meets my needs of being easy/hands-free for the most part so i could do a brew on a weekday eve with little fuss, should be clean enough to do inside without all the mess which is a big factor with my eBIAB (its messy). I made a VERY fast decision on it yesterday as a refurb popped up for $1300 on their KS site. In the back of my mind, Im wondering a few things. Is it worth the cost given i have 75% of an automated system done already. Is it worth it to 'just get back into brewing'. If in 6 months or a year into it I decide to sell it, do you think resell would hold up on it? Not sure how warranty stuff works on it for transfer. Anyhow, sorry to ramble, I just jumped in feet first on it given the refurb avail and I normally analyze things to death before purchasing.
 
I think it meets my needs of being easy/hands-free for the most part so i could do a brew on a weekday eve with little fuss, should be clean enough to do inside without all the mess which is a big factor with my eBIAB (its messy). .

This is exactly what I do -- brew on a weekday. If I'm home by 5p, I'm able to have the brew finished -- and cleaned up -- no later than 9:30 -- usually by 9p for a basic brew -- and then another 15 mins or so for cleaning. If you decide to do a slightly more elaborate step mash -- dough-in, mash 1, mash 2, mash out -- you'll add some time -- but if you do a single temp mash, a normal 60 minute boil, you'll look at a 4 hour brew time, give or take a few minutes. As with any brew, it's a little bit of time up front to gather water and measure salts and grind grain -- but all this can easily be done beforehand.

Once the brew is going with the Pico, it's hands-off until cooling. I cool in a 5 gallon bucket with tap water -- cool it down to 95F with about 3 changes of the tap water -- and then let it set in either my ferm chamber or my cool(ish) basement @ 68F -- and by 6a the next morning, I pitch. No issues with a 12 or so cooling lag before pitching. Other folks do immersion or plate chilling for cooling, but it's not really necessary if you're willing to crash it to 80-90F with normal tap -- and then just wait a few hours for it come the rest of the way down on its own. (I immersion cool with my BIAB system -- go from 212 to 68F in about 5 minutes with a Hydra -- it's nice to immediately pitch -- but I don't feel the need to do this with the Pico. The less work -- and cleaning -- the better, IMHO. I've noticed that I gravitate to the Pico when I (a) want a new style and (b) am feeling lazy and just want to set-and-forget and monitor via the website.)

You'll want to rinse directly after a brew -- but a basic rinse (not a deep clean) takes about 5-7 minutes. The recommendation is to rinse after each batch and do a deep clean after every 3 batches (used to be 5 -- but they're now suggesting 3). Deep clean takes about 2-3 hours -- but it's all hands-off, so it's literally set and forget.

Actually, the hardest part of dealing with the Pico is cleaning out the grains from the step filter when everything's done. I have a pair of silicone gloves where I just scoop out the grains with my hands into a bag, knock out the spent hops (careful if you have dogs -- these spent hops are potentially dangerous to dogs), rinse the step filter, and then rinse the screens. It's about 5 minutes worth of cleaning. Then I do a rinse or two to clean everything up. The hops and grain I bag up in a Hefty trash bag and dump in my normal garbage. I know I should (in theory) compost the grains -- but I always worry about the spent hops and dogs. Plus, in Chicago at the moment, we've just received nearly a foot of snow -- so there's no way I'm trudging out to the compost pile anyway.
 
I'm waiting for my refurb unit. If using this makes me an appliance operator (a derogative term applied to ham radio operators in the 1970's who didn't build their own gear) then the same is true of my current three vessel rig; it manages temperatures for me in just the same way. The only additional automation involves timers, auto valves, and pump control. I'll probably add those to the larger system at some point anyway.

The anti-automation sentiments remind me vividly of conversations previously read or heard among devotees of other hobbies. Are there any ham radio enthusiasts here who remember the phone v. CW wars (I got my Extra class in 1976 so I was probably among those complaining about the no-code gang)? Or amateur astronomers who have been exposed to the "goto as heresy" arguments? Please, folks. Use what you enjoy in the way you most enjoy using it. If we all used the same gear in the same way this would be an extremely dull hobby.

I don't intend for this to replace my conventional gear. It is intended as an alternative for those times when time or weather restrict me to brewing small batches indoors. We'll see.
 
I too just pulled the plug on a refurb unit (I think I got the last one from the current batch). I was going to wait until after the new year to figure out what I'm getting back from the IRS, but saving $600 (after shipping) was too good to pass on. Can't wait to try it. Like many here, I've not been brewing nearly as much recently due to time, weather, and other frustrations. I'm already brewing 2.5 gallon batches so that's no problem. I really want to be able to do easier and more precise step mashes. My current HERMS setup just isn't giving me as reliable control as I was hoping and is kind of a PITA.
 
I too just pulled the plug on a refurb unit (I think I got the last one from the current batch). I was going to wait until after the new year to figure out what I'm getting back from the IRS, but saving $600 (after shipping) was too good to pass on. Can't wait to try it. Like many here, I've not been brewing nearly as much recently due to time, weather, and other frustrations. I'm already brewing 2.5 gallon batches so that's no problem. I really want to be able to do easier and more precise step mashes. My current HERMS setup just isn't giving me as reliable control as I was hoping and is kind of a PITA.

Pulled the trigger? :p
 
Brewing for me is about the process, it a way to do something with friends on Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Have a few home brews relax and enjoy doing something fun. To reduce it to the brewing version of a Bread Machine seems pointless. The new version with their packaged kits and canned recipes is more like brewing coffee with a Keurig only K cup than brewing Craft beer. I have nothing against automation and technology is part of my everyday work life. But to me it is like playing Golf on a Play Station rather than going out side and actually hitting the ball. For those folks who want to load up a machine press a button and wake up to a "home Brewed" beer enjoy it. I think I will stick to my semi Luddite ways of designing a recipe, grinding some grain, mashing and brewing my beer.
 
And that is exactly what I do with my zymatic.....I still design my recipe, crush my grain, mash, and boil........beats the legacy system I used for 20 years hands down. And now I always have about 5 beers available.

Wouldn't knock it till u try it......

Severum


stick to my semi Luddite ways of designing a recipe, grinding some grain, mashing and brewing my beer.
A
 
I have made the best tasting beer ever since owning this machine. I sold my custom built 30amp electric system and never looked back. 3rd brew coming up tomorrow and can't wait. Now I can experiment more. Love my pico brew and worth every penny I spent.
 
I have made the best tasting beer ever since owning this machine. I sold my custom built 30amp electric system and never looked back. 3rd brew coming up tomorrow and can't wait. Now I can experiment more. Love my pico brew and worth every penny I spent.

I'm in complete agreement, i'm already on my 5th batch. I find myself focusing more on the beer design and other components of my process (fermentation control, serving parameters, etc) now. I'm also willing to try different things because I'm only brewing batches that are half the size of what I used to.

I've also got to give the company credit for absolutely over the top customer service. It really is a breath of fresh air to work with a company that listens and then responds.
 
How would one be able to do a hop stand with the Zymatic?

It's actually really simple, you can set up your own custom steps for each recipe so it's as simply as telling the zymatic: Chill to <your preferred hop stand temperature>, add hops and circulate through the hops for <your preferred hop stand duration>, then resume chilling to <your preferred ending temperature>

The zymatic will hold the temperature at your desired hop stand temperature, and you can even do multiple additions for different times if you so desire. I'm much more comfortable doing a longer hop stand since I know the temperatures are well controlled and i'm not dealing with condensation like i did out in my garage.

for my last IPA when i put my chiller in line I actually reloaded the hop cages to allow me to get an even larger load of hops. It was surprising easy even with a max grain load. I then ran an 80 minute hop stand where i was upstairs doing other stuff while the hop stand ran. I had a pause step in there so the zymatic sounded off when it was ready to start chilling.
 
Last minute FYI........

On the kickstarter website for the picobrew they have 3 refurbished Zymatic machines with full warranty (as of time of this post) for almost half the price! People must have backed out last minute. Only 5 hours left to place your order! Only ships to the USA or else this is the one I would have bid on.
 
Last minute FYI........

On the kickstarter website for the picobrew they have 3 refurbished Zymatic machines with full warranty (as of time of this post) for almost half the price! People must have backed out last minute. Only 5 hours left to place your order! Only ships to the USA or else this is the one I would have bid on.

Not seeing it, I'd be interested.
 
I believe the Kickstarter ended right after you posted.

Not long after thats for sure. As I said, there was only 5 hrs left in the campaign till closing. I could see major changes to the rewards just by tapping F5. People making their last minute cancellations and re bids and whatnot. But yeah, its closed now...
 
Not long after thats for sure. As I said, there was only 5 hrs left in the campaign till closing. I could see major changes to the rewards just by tapping F5. People making their last minute cancellations and re bids and whatnot. But yeah, its closed now...

Huh, I've never watched a highly successful kickstarter close up - didn't realize that sort of thing happened or was even possible.
 
Big -- big -- props to Pico for exchanging my defective Pico.

Went through a lot of batches and troubleshooting -- and time -- but Pico made it right. Took a lot of iPhone photos, too -- and we spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting via email.

The new unit just shipped out, and I'm shipping my old one back tomorrow.

Really nice to see a company like Pico. Fantastic product, fantastic service.

(The unit had pumping issues and then finally an issue with the stepper arm that was causing the water not to be directed properly. I even disassembled the old unit home to adjust and lubricate the stepper arm -- but it didn't seem to solve the problem.)


Looking forward to brewing again with the Pico...
 
Big -- big -- props to Pico for exchanging my defective Pico.

Went through a lot of batches and troubleshooting -- and time -- but Pico made it right. Took a lot of iPhone photos, too -- and we spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting via email.

The new unit just shipped out, and I'm shipping my old one back tomorrow.

Really nice to see a company like Pico. Fantastic product, fantastic service.

(The unit had pumping issues and then finally an issue with the stepper arm that was causing the water not to be directed properly. I even disassembled the old unit home to adjust and lubricate the stepper arm -- but it didn't seem to solve the problem.)


Looking forward to brewing again with the Pico...

I'm going to add to the big props to Pico and say that my step filter had for cracks in it in the corner where the arm directs the water and obvious design flaw I guess but Pico didn't even question it and in shipping me one out as soon as a new batch comes in so I have to agree customer service is awesome
 
Big -- big -- props to Pico for exchanging my defective Pico.

Went through a lot of batches and troubleshooting -- and time -- but Pico made it right. Took a lot of iPhone photos, too -- and we spent quite a bit of time troubleshooting via email.

The new unit just shipped out, and I'm shipping my old one back tomorrow.

Really nice to see a company like Pico. Fantastic product, fantastic service.

(The unit had pumping issues and then finally an issue with the stepper arm that was causing the water not to be directed properly. I even disassembled the old unit home to adjust and lubricate the stepper arm -- but it didn't seem to solve the problem.)


Looking forward to brewing again with the Pico...

Interesting. Might I ask how the issue manifested itself? I've been getting a ton of fatal error #1s when I go to start a brew or clean and I'm getting a seemingly full flow rate. I haven't done nearly as many batches as you.... I've followed all of their trouble shooting tips and last time using keg lube on gaskets seemed to help, but I'm not convinced.

I plan on doing a flow rate test as soon as I get time.
 
I'm going to add to the big props to Pico and say that my step filter had for cracks in it in the corner where the arm directs the water and obvious design flaw I guess but Pico didn't even question it and in shipping me one out as soon as a new batch comes in so I have to agree customer service is awesome

Mine is being replaced as well but my cracks are from the mash chamber to the hop/pass through chamber.
 
Interesting. Might I ask how the issue manifested itself? I've been getting a ton of fatal error #1s when I go to start a brew or clean and I'm getting a seemingly full flow rate. I haven't done nearly as many batches as you.... I've followed all of their trouble shooting tips and last time using keg lube on gaskets seemed to help, but I'm not convinced.

I plan on doing a flow rate test as soon as I get time.

I only received one fatal error -- but that was about 20 batches ago (I did 73 or so on my original machine). I did a lot of demo batches for buddies wondering about the Pico. Oddly, I had no issues up until batch 50 or 51 or so. And then it was usually my own fault: getting grain clogged in the ball valves, not pushing the step filter in far enough, etc.

The first big problem was frequent boil flashing -- I'd start the boil, and I'd see the temps go from 207 to 214 and then back down to 203 and then back up to 214. I aborted a couple batches at this point because I had no idea if the wort was actually flowing -- it sounded like it, but then I'd hear hissing, too. Very strange (and sad to go through an entire mash only to have no idea if the batch is worth saving). I've been working on pale ales lately, so the finished beer was pretty much predicated on hop utilization through the boil and final whirlpool.

Finally, I ended up letting batch of pumpkin ale go through the entire flashing -- 60 minutes of wild, wild temp swings. I had no idea what the finished beer would taste like -- or if the boil was at all successful. I knew I didn't need a 60 minute boil -- I've brewed batches with a 30 minute boil when I was in hurry with my old 3-vessel system -- but I needed *some* kind of flow throughput to approximate a boil.

Anyway, I kegged and cold-crashed this pumpkin batch several weeks ago, and it turned out great. It wasn't a hoppy beer to start out with -- but it was (weirdly) the best pumpkin batch I've ever brewed. Malty, clean, with a nice pumpkin taste from the spices -- a pinch of cinnamon, ginger, allspice, and nutmeg -- in the last few minutes of the boil. I used a can of pumpkin in the mash, too -- but I realize this makes little, if any, difference in the finished beer. (I added the pumpkin because I felt obligated -- but not because it actually added anything flavor-wise.)

But I still had the flashing. Obviously, that was messed up. And then the flashing blew out the seal on my stepper arm. So I had to disassemble the Pico, relubricate the seal, and then try another batch. (And buy a couple of tools on Amazon for taking apart the case.)

Next batch: same flashing, same weird temp swings. I saved the batch -- a pale ale -- and it's aging nicely in my keezer. It tastes pretty good. Not a lot of hop aroma, but the bitterness is there. I skipped the final whirlpool when I had the flashing. I just wanted to get through a 60 minute boil and then cool it down.

At this point, Pico asked me to run some tests on the pump. The flow rates weren't quite right, so they asked me to pack up the machine and send it back for checking and calibration. I did this.

Couple weeks later, the machine arrived back. I did a cleaning and then a couple rinses -- and then I loaded it up with another batch for a pale ale -- and within 20 minutes of the mash starting, I came down to the basement to see a good portion of my wort on my basement floor.

Now, it turns out that the stepper arm wasn't properly flowing water into the mash comparment. I had to shim the left side of the machine with a folded piece of cardboard to force the step filter to move about 3mm to the right so the stepper arm could aim into the plexiglass lid's mash compartment cut-out. This was annoying -- and didn't seem right. But I lost a bunch of wort, so -- once again -- I abandoned this batch. In Pico's defense, they sent me a replacement batch of grain. Really, really nice to do that. But at this point, it was less about the money or the wasted grain (which was painful to say the least) but more the stress of realizing that this machine was messed up in a serious way -- and that I had to watch it through the entire process to make sure nothing went wrong. This was drastically different than my early batches where I could start it, watch the progress graph on the web page, and check on it every so often to make sure all is well. Now, I was beginning to realize that I'd have to watch this thing constantly. This really bummed me out.

Another couple rinse cycles, and I started up what would be my final batch with the machine. I shimmed the step filter to force it right so that the stepper arm would flow into the mash compartment -- and the batch worked. What was weird, however, was that the mash came up literally 1mm short of overflowing. I mean, it was so close to overflowing again that I had my finger on the 'Exit brew' button. I didn't want to clean up more sticky wort from my basement floor. But I let it keep going. It didn't overflow, but it was very, very close. The mash screen was floating, too (even though I had an upturned spoon between the screen the plexiglass step filter top.) Pico customer service said this was normal, but in all my previous batches I had never, ever had this much water in the compartment at any one time.

The mash finished (a relief), and then boil went through fine. I thought everything was okay.

Except when I went to empty the hop compartments. I saw that compartments 3 and 4 were filled with wort. Like, totally filled. That's weird, I thought. Anyway, I went to take the jacket off the keg, and I realized that I'd actually lost a *lot* of the wort due to the hop compartments being filled up. I don't know how much, but the keg was disappointingly light. I mean, maybe I had 1.5 gallons -- maybe a little more. This bummed me out, and I realized that even after sending the machine back for calibration, something was still messed up.

That's what I started to go back and forth with Pico customer service. Something was definitely not right. I spent the better part of the day after the batch finished to run more pump tests, take some iPhone photos, and email back and forth to (the awesome and very patient!) customer support.

The final test I ran show that the stepper arm instead of directing water between the hop and mash compartment was directing the water directly into hop compartment 4 (which was taped at the bottom -- part of the test that Pico has you run through. They asked me to add the tape.). This in turn filled up compartment 3 and then 2 and then 1. So all my water was going through the hop compartments in reverse.

Even now, I'm still not exactly sure what was wrong -- but whatever the machine and stepper arm were doing certainly wasn't right. It was directing water into the hops compartments -- which, in turn, were only allowing the water to flow out very slowly (due the hop screens). I *think* this is why my mash was way, way higher than it had ever been.

Anyway, it was several tossed out batches, many hours of testing, and a bunch of iPhone photos. But, as I say, Pico eventually made it right. No complaints about that.

Well, one complaint: the machine is pretty big and heavy, so sending it back via UPS is definitely a two person job (as is getting the machine packed properly and back into its foam stabilizers). So that's partly why I had to delay sending it back by several days. I had hoped to get it back to UPS yesterday, but it turns out I probably won't be able to send it back until tomorrow or next week. That's really the only issue.

EDIT: BTW, one takeaway from all of this (I have more -- which I'll post later -- but this one is probably the most important): As we see more of these "computerized wort machines" on the market -- Pico, Grainfather, Brewie, etc. -- the key new buyers should ask is whether the customer service and post-purchase support is good (or if there even *is* post-purchase support).

I can't imagine going through all of this -- troubleshooting, packing up machine, sending back, more troubleshooting -- with a company that has poor customer service. The stress level would be incredible -- all this time, all this money. It's almost (not quite -- obviously not the same -- but similar) like buying a new car. Something goes wrong, you want it fixed immediately or replaced outright. You really don't want to hear reasons why they can't fix it -- or why they're not responsible for it -- or why it's your fault for doing or not doing something that they never stressed in the first place.

Picobrew is not like this. Picobrew is fantastic -- absolutely fantastic. I can't speak to Grainfather or to Brewie -- but if I had to this all over again, my pre-sale questions would be less about the machine and more about, "Well, what happens when this heavy, unwieldy machine breaks? Do you fix it? Do you replace it? Do you send me a shipping label so all I have to do is put it in a box and send it back? Because if you don't fix it or replace it ASAP and give me that pre-paid shipping label -- I ain't interested."

Picobrew did all this -- and then some.
 
Wow. Great write up for those who may possibly have issues. It will be interesting to see how machines with lots of cycles hold up. Glad to hear that PicoBrew is working hard to resolve them and deliver a good customer experience.
 
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