Picobrew Z

[Mike Howard]

I have BeerSmith for things like this. I just want an API I can tap into in order to translate those recipes to brewing instructions for the Z.

But in reality, you shouldn't have to use a third party system....

The main things for me are not so much the Recipe Crafter (easy to mod a web app..although they can't seem to thandle that in a timely manner), its the fact that you MUST be connected to the internet, no way to mod recipe params on the fly, and no way to even browse the recipe on the Zymatic itself. And AFAIK, none of that has changed for the new Z series, but if it has, I'm sure someone will post that up here....

It's a shiny new toy, but only time will tell if they actually improved the engineering or made it worse.

 

[Anyhowe]

I have to find it in the pile of everything else out there. Moved and combined households with my fiance. A lot of stuff piled high in the garage right now. Cant even brew really.

Fiancés will do that....gl

 

[Brewfreedom]

But in reality, you shouldn't have to use a third party system....

The main things for me are not so much the Recipe Crafter (easy to mod a web app..although they can't seem to thandle that in a timely manner), its the fact that you MUST be connected to the internet, no way to mod recipe params on the fly, and no way to even browse the recipe on the Zymatic itself. And AFAIK, none of that has changed for the new Z series, but if it has, I'm sure someone will post that up here....

It's a shiny new toy, but only time will tell if they actually improved the engineering or made it worse.

This. Every single Zymatic out there is there an error #1 nightmare or recently shipped back ticking time bomb. Let's see a few reviews+ abuse (real world use) did it overflow after the 3rd or 4th brew type stuff? The fan boys will eat a crap sandwich no matter what. Let's see some actual brew + OG results and taste reviews. Is hop utilization still crap?

 

[Anyhowe]

Also in the list of little things to be worked out after the push to get the units out, for those using the Kegsmarts to ferment the Z does not yet sync with them. Easy work around but just a heads up. I seem to recall a brief problem with this when the Pico arrived as well.

Brew on!

 

[Anyhowe]

Also if you can on your next brew , film it so us watching on the side lines can want our more . And you can upgrade to a 2? Or no just a z1 .

I guess you have to hit the PLAY button in the MIDDLE of the screen It needs volume of course.
https://anyhowe.smugmug.com/Brewery/i-wn6v5ZR

 

[Mike Howard]

lol

 

[doublea]

Update today pushed me from 3/15 to 4/6 for the Z2

 

[sharpbeer]

Update today pushed me from 3/15 to 4/6 for the Z2

I just found this thread after receiving the frustrating information in this most recent email update. They've been 'Ramping up' production for months now and all that seems to be doing for them is delaying the schedule. I bought the Z2 originally when it was first announced with target ship date for July or August of 2018, just got pushed back from 3/9 to 4/6 for the Z2.

 

[sharpbeer]

...annnd I just got caught up on this thread... Maybe I'll cancel my Z2 as the Brewie+ looks slick, has more features (specifically chilling and easier cleaning?) and is $1700 on morebeer atm. I'll have to look into the Brewie+ a bit more tomorrow, but I'm starting to lean towards it.

 

[Goblism]

...annnd I just got caught up on this thread... Maybe I'll cancel my Z2 as the Brewie+ looks slick, has more features (specifically chilling and easier cleaning?) and is $1700 on morebeer atm. I'll have to look into the Brewie+ a bit more tomorrow, but I'm starting to lean towards it.

I am really thinking the exact same thing. Been reviewing both quite in depth. I asked picobrew a few questions and was told that I would have an update in a business day, that was like 4 days ago. Seems that some of the U.S. Brewie's had some initially wiring issues around the heating element on 120v setups. The out of country 240v don't seem to have the sames issues but Brewie did respond fairly quickly that the problems have been resolved.

Seems that the Brewie can do quite a bit but worried about the companies past reputation where it did poorly with the first Brewie model. Also efficiencies appear to be likely a little better with the Brewie too with the added abilities of water inlet, chilling, no need for wifi during brewing, and a true boil (which I know people have bashed the zymatic in the past for concerns of poor hop utilization.)
I have also been hesitant about the cleaning involved with a 5 gallon batch of having 2 kegs and lines to clean, seems the process may be quicker overall with the Brewie but I will likely be brewing smaller batches which is a likely a benefit of the Z lineup.

I was pushed back from 3/2 to 3/16 on my Z2 with this last update. Gives me more time to think about what I am going to do.

Biggest problem always with pre-orders is that the people pre-ordering are the guinea pigs. One of these 2 products will likely show to be superior to the other, trying to figure out which one right now,

 

[Mike Howard]

You should have all the information you need to make an informed decision on this thread and in general THIS thread (its a long thread but from 38 on is pretty informative). There are a few folks who will say nothing bad about Picobrew (mostly employees), but the majority of folks will give you an honest opinion. There is not much info out right now about the Z1 (all of these delays, limited shipments) and only a few customers and an employee have posted.

Z2's and up have always been vaporware and it's unclear exactly how they are going to deploy that. It seems that there are two main ideas about the configuration of the Z2; the first is that it will simply be two stacked Z1's, the other is that it will be two stacked filter/pump units and a single brain unit on top of those.

As with any new product to the market, if you are an early adopter you are a guinea pig. Don't think otherwise. The new machines will fail. They will have problems. You will most likely be down for days/weeks as they figure it out. Just look at the issues they have already had; filters, software, paint, etc...

I expect the delays to keep mounting, it seems to be the mantra. They are not big on transparency nor are they very timely in their responses. Good Luck on your decision, but if you are waffling and don't need full automation...BrewBoss is your friend, otherwise, filter out all of those guys that only have good things to say about either one. Every machine has its issues.

 

[doublea]

I looked very closely at Brewie+ during black Friday sale but having spent an hour reading the forums here was too worried about the mixed feedback. I do agree in theory the water inlet and clean mode vs kegs are attractive.

I really wanted full automation, so I might be stuck deciding between these two. I think it's a major concern we know nothing about the Z2+, so I just emailed them to ask for an update. Here's what I was told:

"This is a totally fair inquiry, and I've got a request in to our Z fulfillment team to get information on multi-module machines out there. We should address this in the next couple of updates.

I do know that testing has occurred, but I am not aware of any specific issues that are holding things up (other than an order backlog). I'll stay on top of our Z team to get an update out about this soon."

We'll see what they share if anything. Another part of me thinks it would also be fine to have just a Z1. I rarely need >4g of beer these days and smaller batches keep things fresh.

 

[alaric10000]

So does staying on top of the Z team to get an update mean the weekly 7-day update will happen in 14 days instead of 17 days like the last one?

 

[Trevor Mack]

Wow I guessed this when I noticed the first missed update. It was only a couple updates ago they promised weekly updates... Yeah when things go south they get quiet and don't update on anything. When an update does come it contains little to no inforaminfo about why there is a drastic delay to orders (months for majority of orders).

 

[macgyuver]

My Z2 just slipped 4 weeks on the shipping, was supposed to ship March 9 now it is April 6. I have emailed them as well asking for any updates on the larger units.

 

[macgyuver]

Wow I guessed this when I noticed the first missed update. It was only a couple updates ago they promised weekly updates... Yeah when things go south they get quiet and don't update on anything. When an update does come it contains little to no inforaminfo about why there is a drastic delay to orders (months for majority of orders).

They stated in one of the updates that they will only update when there was new info and they would get away from weekly updates.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Mine was a Z1 unit that got delayed 4 weeks April 11 to May 13th... There wasn't any reason in the update as to why there was such a long delay to the production line they have been "setting up".

 

[Trevor Mack]

They stated in one of the updates that they will only update when there was new info and they would get away from weekly updates.

In the January 4th update they said all hands on deck and a restart to the weekly update... Likely due to everyone complaining about being in the dark then all of a sudden the update is "hey we hit a snag add another month".

Our CEO has ordered all-hands-on-deck to finish out the Z production schedule, meaning that our engineering, supply chain and manufacturing staff are entirely-focused on Z, until the last unit ships out to its new home. Our customer service and support staff have been relentless advocates for increased communication, so we are restarting the weekly Z status email to keep you up-to-date on our progress.

 

[jcaiola]

A lot of us who have decided to cancel maintain the connection to this thread because we are interested in the Z product roll-out, and its hopeful success.

We are all brothers and sisters in homebrewing and want to see each of us succeed.

Personally, I put out my initial comments on my choice to go with the Brewie (and how I feel about the product) when the Z delays began to mount and I was asked to kindly stay on topic here - as this was a Z forum conversation (which I wholeheartedly agree with), so I’ve tried to lay low with my opinions.

As some of you have done, if you’re interested in my Brewie experience and how I’ve felt about my decision, please PM me and I’ll be glad to share.

I’ll continue to follow this thread because I want to hear stories (hopefully success stories) of those who hung in there and how the end-product compares to what I currently have.

Best,
Joe

 

[macgyuver]

Here is an email response that I got for asking about the Z2 and up... after reading the email makes me think that the Z2 and up are not even close to being shipped...


"We understand the frustration and are working as quickly as we can to get all units out the door as timely as we can.

Regarding Z2-4 units, the Z2 in our lab has been running very well for the past month+ and provides a very good proof of concept in how we plan to implement them.

More in depth information regarding Z2-4 units will be coming in one of the next few updates as we get closer to fulfillment for this style of unit."

 

[sharpbeer]

"Regarding Z2-4 units, the Z2 in our lab has been running very well for the past month+ and provides a very good proof of concept in how we plan to implement them."

Yeah... It doesn't sound like my Z2 that was delayed to 4/6/19 will be ready, if anything it will probably be closer to May or June. I was excited, yesterday was 10 days from my scheduled ship date... Now 39+ days

They should not give such set dates if they will keep breaking promises and pushing the delivery if they want to be trusted.

 

[doublea]

Wow, I am very worried hearing "very good proof of concept".

 

[Mike Howard]

Yea...from the sounds of "proof of concept" they are still in Design phase. Read as...Design, Test, Redesign, Retest, etc.... If they are even giving shipping dates, the Design and Test phase should have happened months ago. Vaporware at this point.

 

[macgyuver]

I was just told that at this point in time the larger units are using independent control modules. So each module will have a brain instead of one brain running everything.

 

[Anyhowe]

I was just told that at this point in time the larger units are using independent control modules. So each module will have a brain instead of one brain running everything.

Any idea on how this is different than two Z1’s.

 

[Thorrak]

Any idea on how this is different than two Z1’s.

Slightly cheaper?

 

[macgyuver]

Any idea on how this is different than two Z1’s.

No different than two Z1s stacked on top of each other.

 

[Goblism]

No different than two Z1s stacked on top of each other.

Make me wonder what the electrical demands will be of the z2-z4 will be compared to what they have said.

 

[Trevor Mack]

I found confirmation from Doug (a support rep at Picobrew) that the Z2 (likely Z2+) is "currently being implemented with 2 controls panels". This was found on the private Facebook group for Picobrewers.

 

[doublea]

Sort of makes me wonder why I want a Z2 if it needs to be two separate units and has higher risk and it adds the complexity of 220V. Most batches on a Zymatic and brew 3-5 gallons (3 gallons @ 1.090 if I remember correctly?).

 

[Still Brewn]

So I'm thinking another 90 days before first delivery of a Z2? Maybe. Thank goodness I canceled and bought another system.....

 

[Trevor Mack]

Got power details mentioned in same FB thread.

Each tier is a fully operational 120V machine (domestic ones that is). For power, you have two options: have two completely separate 120V/15amp circuits within reaching distance of the tiers' plugs (no extension cords) or plug the tiers' plugs into a 240V/30amp circuit via the L14-30 240V splitter plug.

So yeah looks like exactly as we thought just 2 Z2s stacked on top each other ATM.

 

[sharpbeer]

So I'm thinking another 90 days before first delivery of a Z2? Maybe. Thank goodness I canceled and bought another system.....

What system did you end up getting?

 

[Still Brewn]

I got a Brewie+.... cheaper, just as many functions plus automatic cooling to desired temp in about 10 minutes and can be used without an internet
under electric brewing if you are interested.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/brewie.506703/page-36
In my opinion better tech support, got replacement parts right away. Pico couldn't even answer my questions
At least I know why now..... they are still in the design/test phase of the Z2.
I had a lot more written but erased because I don't want to hijack this thread

 

[Anyhowe]

Got power details mentioned in same FB thread.



So yeah looks like exactly as we thought just 2 Z2s stacked on top each other ATM.

So I have been pondering this. Everybody's needs are different so these are what sit with me at the moment. I reserve the right to get smarter in the future...

If I wanted 5 gallons I would have to load two separate grain and hop bills; 1 to each unit. Not a big deal really, I suppose, but if 5 gallons were my everyday thing, every time I did it I would ask myself why. For me, I would rather have 2 different 2.5 gallon beers anyway. I am liking the idea of loading two unique beers, say an IPA and a Stout, and having them both done in an afternoon. And if I ever needed 5, then I could do it. YMMV

edit There is some funky blocked off plumbing on the bottom of the step filter. Not sure what it was ever for. But it does make me wonder if they were ever trying to join two step filters together. Total speculation on my part.

 

[alaric10000]

IIRC it has to do with the Zymatic adapter since they're discontinuing those step filters. Seems a little silly to generate an extra failure point for regular Z users but I guess molds are expensive.

 

[Brewfreedom]

I got a Brewie+.... cheaper, just as many functions plus automatic cooling to desired temp in about 10 minutes and can be used without an internet
under electric brewing if you are interested.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/brewie.506703/page-36
In my opinion better tech support, got replacement parts right away. Pico couldn't even answer my questions
At least I know why now..... they are still in the design/test phase of the Z2.
I had a lot more written but erased because I don't want to hijack this thread

From what I have seen w the Brewie+ is just a better thought out / engineered machine than pico's. Its not perfect. Nothing is.But at least you can get it clean. No plastic mashtun.

 

[Still Brewn]

From what I have seen w the Brewie+ is just a better thought out / engineered machine than pico's. Its not perfect. Nothing is.But at least you can get it clean. No plastic mashtun.

I haven't really kept up on what Pico is doing now since I canceled my order. I only get dragged back when someone Pm's me or something. I didn't know there was an issue with cleaning, that said, there is a "short clean" for the Brewie that leaves a lot to be desired. However, it has 2 other clean cycles that are very effective and get the kettles and internal plumbing looking new. There is also an unclog clean cycle that I have not used.

 

[doublea]

I don't think there is any issue with cleaning the picoo or it being plastic, other than that it's not automated. The temperatures should be fine to santatize.

 

[alaric10000]

Issue isn't cleaning the plastic; issue is cleaning non-plastic parts of the interior—especially the heat exchanger—without being able to use chemicals that would damage the plastic as they pass through.