PicoBrew Pico users

[jrb03]

Why do you say 7 days refrigerated, if that's true I've been using bad yeast for years lol. The yeast pack has an expiration date, as long as you keep it refrigerated it's good until then. I've used yeast a month past that date without issue personally.

How do you know your filter paper was the new, I know it's been said a change is coming but I haven't been able to verify when/if that happened.

 

[VagueSkunk]

If kept refrigerated liquid yeast should be good for a couple months at least, waaaaaaaaaay more than 7 days.

 

[bobbob911]

Ah, good to know! I had read somewhere the liquid yeast was still quite perishable even when refrigerated.

Definitely new filter packets - there's a visible difference and I got pico to send me new dry hop packets for a couple of picopaks I already had.

 

[jrb03]

Great thanks for the info. So I guess the change was recent. Liquid yeast is perishable, makes it tricky to ship. If refrigerated it will last months. Look at the expiration date.

 

[Pelikan11]

Hey Jrb when you say you get this particular off flavor with US-05, what is it exactly? I just kegged my dead guy and the same off flavor from my Half squeezed seems to be there but not as pronounced. I don't get it. I've used dry yeast and specifically US 05 in regular 5 gal batches with no problem. US 05 is usually pretty clean over all. Really as clean as it gets for dry yeast.

On this batch I pitched just under a half pack(5g)and fermented 14 days.

Do you think maybe that's still too much? It's really hard to find any info on what off flavor over pitching would add to the beer.

 

[jrb03]

It's a hard to describe, i have a hard time calling it an off flavor because it is still drinkable just not as clean as I would prefer. It's an acidic finish, a little fruity/cidery. I agree with you, I've used US-05 in 5 gallon batches before and although it's not my favorite i don't recall this flavor before. After 6 batches with the dry, and 4 with liquid I have no problem saying the flavor is from the US-05.

 

[Pelikan11]

It's a hard to describe, i have a hard time calling it an off flavor because it is still drinkable just not as clean as I would prefer. It's an acidic finish, a little fruity/cidery. I agree with you, I've used US-05 in 5 gallon batches before and although it's not my favorite i don't recall this flavor before. After 6 batches with the dry, and 4 with liquid I have no problem saying the flavor is from the US-05.

Yep that's it 100%. Cidery and kinda like a sweet tart. Does this occur even with as little as a teaspoon as well?

 

[Pelikan11]

With the batch I kegged today, I kegged it and purged with CO2. Then I primed with DME and I'm going to let it naturally carbonate for 2 weeks in the keg before serving. I'm hoping this might clean it up a little. Much like my first beer, the intended beer is there. I can taste the maltiness of Dead Guy lurking there, it's just getting blocked a bit by the weird tangy flavor. I'll report on the results. Luckily I just kegged 5 gal of an AG Bells Two Hearted clone over the weekend so I can be patient

 

[Pelikan11]

Another theory I have on the people who have been disappointed in the degree of hop character in the IPAs.
When I first started AG brewing I was always disappointed in my IPAs from a hoppiness perspective. But I was brewing with soft or RO water. When I started adding a tablespoon of Gypsum to the boil it was night and day. The beers became crisp hoppy and clean as a whistle. Ditto for my English bitters and pale ales.

I think brewing an IPA with distilled water is always going to subdue the hop character in these Pico brews.

 

[jrb03]

Yep that's it 100%. Cidery and kinda like a sweet tart. Does this occur even with as little as a teaspoon as well?

When the recommendation from Picobrew about one tsp came out I had just started using liquid. My first batch I pitched he whole packet like the instructions said, against my better judgment. First couple glasses were horrible, dumped them. I left it alone for 2-3 weeks and it cleaned up some but still had that pronounced taste. The next 5 batches I eyeballed half a pack so who knows how much I was pitching. They all had that taste but much tamer. Stout, wit, blonde, porter, and IPA all had that underlying flavor. Next 4 batches were done 2 at a time splitting a half vial of liquid yeast between them, super clean delicious beer. All 4 including dead guy which I can't taste a difference between mine and commercial. On Super Bowl Sunday I'm gonna have some buddies do a blind taste test, I need to quit stealing samples from it lol. So I like to think that even less than half a pack of yeast will get rid of that flavor since going to ~ half significantly reduced it. I'm not sure though. I will do an experiment soon.

 

[jrb03]

Another theory I have on the people who have been disappointed in the degree of hop character in the IPAs.
When I first started AG brewing I was always disappointed in my IPAs from a hoppiness perspective. But I was brewing with soft or RO water. When I started adding a tablespoon of Gypsum to the boil it was night and day. The beers became crisp hoppy and clean as a whistle. Ditto for my English bitters and pale ales.

I think brewing an IPA with distilled water is always going to subdue the hop character in these Pico brews.

Supposedly the needed salts and minerals are included in the pico pak. Sounds like a side by side is in order lol.

 

[Pelikan11]

Sounds like we are having the exact same experience so far. This batch still has that flavor but more subdued as you say. I will try a teaspoon and rehydrate next time as well. I'll let you know if the natural carb with DME helps clean this Dead Guy up as well

 

[jrb03]

We're not the only ones. I have seen several reports of the same underlying flavor on Pico batches. The Pico is a great wort making machine, it's the rest of the process that is the variables.

 

[Lbarouf]

We're not the only ones. I have seen several reports of the same underlying flavor on Pico batches. The Pico is a great wort making machine, it's the rest of the process that is the variables.

Precisely what I thought, and why I bought the pico. The challenge, is we have packs. Luckily we can change the yeast, but even the hops in their pouches can't be easily substituted. I could dry hop using other equipment, but then why pay $30 for a pack just to add more for liquid yeast and hops that I believe will make my brew taste better.

Guess what I'm saying, the wort looks good, PicoBrew should look at the rest of the process. We all would prefer a repeatable process that gives great results, if not good at a minimum. Drain pour a beer breaks my heart.

 

[VagueSkunk]

We're not the only ones. I have seen several reports of the same underlying flavor on Pico batches. The Pico is a great wort making machine, it's the rest of the process that is the variables.

All 5-6 of my batches have had this same flavor and smell that you describe. 2 were complete dumpers, the rest I finished, but it was mainly out of spite. None of the batches were what I would describe as 'good' or 'tasty'. Could only stomach 3 pints from the last batch and that one only had 1 tsp of yeast pitched.
I'm going to try switching up the yeast, as I have suspected for some time that it is the culprit, but was reluctant to switch because US05 is always described as being "clean and neutral" in flavor.

 

[jrb03]

I have been very reluctant to tell anyone you have to buy liquid yeast. None of mine have been dumpers but I knew it could be better. I have no problem saying you WILL get better results with liquid yeast. I have used white labs WLP-080 and WLP-001, half vial pitched straight and shook the HELL out of the keg. Supposedly aeration is more important with liquid than dry. Results truly are MUCH better.

I agree, I had no problems with them using US-05, it is a premium highly popular dry yeast. I can't explain why this is happening, but like I've said the results speak for themselves. I'm very bummed to hear yours was a dumper using 1 tsp. I'm wondering if they got a bad batch of yeast or maybe it was mishandled at some point. Very strange issue.

 

[VagueSkunk]

I'm actually going to be doing a couple of extract batches next. The consistent bad results I get from the Pico have got me thinking that it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong. Either that or maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to some flavor/smell produced by US05. If those turn out successfully, I'll try another Pico batch but use liquid yeast instead.

 

[Ewelady]

well the deaf turtle is disgusting. I am going to let it sit in the fridge and carb some more but I don't think that's going to help it. 1/15 half pack of yeast, fast carb at 70, 1/24 dry hops, 1/29 cold crash. Started carbing 1/31 at 20 (keg carbing not that dinky server thing). Drew some off today and started turning it down to serving carb levels. Just bitter...

thank goodness I have some organic wine to drink

but this did have a problem when it started brewing... my machine claimed there wasn't water in the reservoir (there was) and then after I pressed the knob it started brewing.

 

[jrb03]

What's wrong with it.

 

[hopsaurus]

I might use the corny keg top without any plug for brewing.
Theory is that the rubber (silicone?) top may be causing the off taste. Might wear out the o-ring after awhile, but if it fixes the issue...
Think it will explode?

 

[jrb03]

I doubt that, zymatic uses the same silicon lid. Someone asked about using the keg lid on the Facebook group and they replied not to do that. I think the reason was the gasket not rated for heat.

 

[wallstrum]

I'm actually going to be doing a couple of extract batches next. The consistent bad results I get from the Pico have got me thinking that it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong. Either that or maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to some flavor/smell produced by US05. If those turn out successfully, I'll try another Pico batch but use liquid yeast instead.

Skunk - I've been following this discussion since the beginning and I'd be curious how the results would turn it if you did an extract brew with us05. That experiment would certainly help narrow down where the problem could be coming from...

Wally

 

[Pelikan11]

I'm actually going to be doing a couple of extract batches next. The consistent bad results I get from the Pico have got me thinking that it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong. Either that or maybe I'm just particularly sensitive to some flavor/smell produced by US05. If those turn out successfully, I'll try another Pico batch but use liquid yeast instead.

I can tell you that I did an all grain batch the same day as my last Pico batch and it's probably the best IPA I've ever made. The Pico batch has the same weird flavor.

I don't doubt people saying this is US05 but that yeast consistently gets ranked the cleanest around. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know I could use liquid, but it's annoying because if I'm going to the HB store and dropping 7-8 more bucks on yeast on top of the pack cost, the Pico isn't so user friendly anymore.

I just see no reason we shouldn't be able to make this work with US05

I'm interested to see if natural carb with DME I did on this most recent batch helps clean out that flavor

 

[VagueSkunk]

Skunk - I've been following this discussion since the beginning and I'd be curious how the results would turn it if you did an extract brew with us05. That experiment would certainly help narrow down where the problem could be coming from...

Wally

That is something I have planned. I'm just waiting on a couple fermenter parts to arrive. Once they're here I'll be doing 2 extract batches, one with liquid yeast (London III), and the other with dry US05. I will post results here.

 

[VagueSkunk]

I can tell you that I did an all grain batch the same day as my last Pico batch and it's probably the best IPA I've ever made. The Pico batch has the same weird flavor.

I don't doubt people saying this is US05 but that yeast consistently gets ranked the cleanest around. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know I could use liquid, but it's annoying because if I'm going to the HB store and dropping 7-8 more bucks on yeast on top of the pack cost, the Pico isn't so user friendly anymore.

I just see no reason we shouldn't be able to make this work with US05

I'm interested to see if natural carb with DME I did on this most recent batch helps clean out that flavor

You can get quite a few batches from 1 vial/smack pack of liquid yeast. You'll get 2 from the initial pitching (only need to pitch half) and then just harvest and save the slurry from those to get probably another 4-6 batches worth. Then you can harvest the slurry from those, etc. etc.

 

[Ewelady]

What's wrong with it.

It's hard to describe. Smells good, but if I were describing a wine I would call it extremely dry. Dries my mouth out. If I roll it around on my tongue it's good, but the moment I swallow it's like it was an astringent and zapped all the saliva out of my mouth.

I know that makes no sense but I am not a beer brewer just use to make 5 gallon batches once in a while from Northern's kits and the Pico caught my eye because of the the smaller batch and less mess! I had sort of quit brewing. To many other things... and I thought I could fit this in during the day between feeding the sheep and working on equipment.

 

[jrb03]

I know us-05 is a good yeast, I've used it several times in the past. It must be something to do with the batch of yeast they are sending us or the small 1.25 gallon batches, but that doesn't make sense either. I think we have a mix of standard and fast fermentation here so it's not that either. I don't know, but my liquid yeast batches are so good.

 

[Ewelady]

well my favorite all time beer is in the stores... Troegs Nugget Nectar, only brewed this time of the year. Nugget, Warrior, Tomahawk, Simcoe and Palisade hops. I am so lucky to live close to this brewery. So the bad batch of beer can sit in the fridge as the Fire in the Rye ferments and I drink Nugget Nectar!

 

[bobbob911]

Just tapped my Buffalo Sweat - no problems at all! No off flavors, mouthfeel seems right, it's a very nice beer!

It's just these pesky IPAs causing problems

 

[DrGMG]

Just tapped my Buffalo Sweat - no problems at all! No off flavors, mouthfeel seems right, it's a very nice beer!

It's just these pesky IPAs causing problems

That may be it. My stout and whit were fine.

 

[jrb03]

Awesome! FYI, my Pliny now 6 days going is still dropping gravity. Gonna be a couple more days at least....

 

[Ewelady]

That may be it. My stout and whit were fine.

My best beers had no dry hops added, Whit and Dead Guy, h'mmm, now i am thinking maybe not putting the dry hops in the Fire in the Rye tomorrow.

2 packs for it, Deaf Turtle had 4 or 5 packs of hops!

 

[DrGMG]

Next time Ill just open the hop bag and dump them. Also will use a lot less yeast.

 

[jrb03]

So took my kegs of tweaties and dead guy to Super Bowl party yesterday, they were a huge hit. Did a taste off with commercial dead guy and my buddies could not pick out the difference, it is a great clone recipe. I forgot to grab pictures of my mobile kegerator, I will next time.

 

[Lbarouf]

So took my kegs of tweaties and dead guy to Super Bowl party yesterday, they were a huge hit. Did a taste off with commercial dead guy and my buddies could not pick out the difference, it is a great clone recipe. I forgot to grab pictures of my mobile kegerator, I will next time.

The dead guy technically is not a clone... they approve the recipe is the real deal, so I would also expect it to taste the same. Plus you get it in draft.

 

[jrb03]

The dead guy technically is not a clone... they approve the recipe is the real deal, so I would also expect it to taste the same. Plus you get it in draft.

Obviously, ya clone was the wrong word. It is a fresh on draft dead guy. Will be brewing this one a ton.

 

[Anyhowe]

The dead guy technically is not a clone... they approve the recipe is the real deal, so I would also expect it to taste the same. Plus you get it in draft.

Why technically is it not a clone?

 

[wallstrum]

Why technically is it not a clone?

Probably because it came directly from Rogue, as opposed to some unaffiliated person trying to figure out the ingredients that went into it and reverse engineering it.

Wally

 

[Anyhowe]

Probably because it came directly from Rogue, as opposed to some unaffiliated person trying to figure out the ingredients that went into it and reverse engineering it.

Wally

Ah. Ok. Thanks. I am a results guy I guess, which means it is the results that matter not the words. For me:

Clone = beer I can make that tastes exactly like the real deal.

 

[jrb03]

I guess technically this is the real deal since it is a rogue approved pack. But we all know there is more to the process than pressing that start brew button.