parts list for electric hlt?

[nathan]

I'd like to test the existing rig with combo gas-electric to get to strike temp, and to get to boil. I'd bet it you can reach temps super fast! That would shave a lot of time off of the day as well. But it would be nicest just to not run out of gas mid-batch.

On Sunday I was brewing and ran out of gas about 12 minutes into my 90 minute boil. I hook up my 2nd tank (always have two!) and turned the knob and got... nothing. The knob was stripped inside so it couldn't open the valve. ARG! I load up my empty and the busted one and drive to store, talk them into taking the bad one back for free without a reciept, I go ahead and buy a refill for my second, and go home. Then I have to get back up to a boil after 25-30 minutes idle.

My wort ended up much darker than I expected, and my boiloff amount was too high...

So even when you plan ahead to help prevent running out of gas, there is still a chance of problems.

 

[The Pol]

Have you seen this thread of mine? The OP has a GREAT parts list and instructions on how to make and mount your heating elements.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

 

[nathan]

yeah, I'll follow that for mounting the elements. It's the thread that got me to decide for sure I could do that part on my own (accurate pictures!).

I figure my mounting tools and items (jb weld, saw/drill) will be the same, but maybe the other bits a little different. That element is probably small for a keggle, eh?

 

[The Pol]

That is a 5500W element... small?

 

[nathan]

really? I thought the 5500W was bigger. Hrm. Maybe it's not size = W?

Anyway, so long as I can fit into the side of my keggle I'm okay.

Is it maybe the boil kettle ones that are bigger? Or maybe some are just different sizes regardless of relative power.

 

[nathan]

of course, I'm also probably remembering the elements I saw at HD in my head, the really long ones, but they are probably a totally different application.

 

[The Pol]

Mine is a 5500W ultra low watt density element. It is VERY long, but it is folded over and rippled, so it looks short. It is WAY longer than anything you will find in Lowes or HD. That is my BK element by the way.

 

[The Pol]

In that parts list you will find the PID, SSR, Heatsink and thermocouple you will need for each element too.

 

[nathan]

What are the dimensions for that? You have yours mounted from underneath, right? To do that I'd have to commit to not using any gas assistance, which I'm not sure I want to do just yet. Will it install through the side low on a keggle?
Some elements are reshapable if you are careful, what about this one?

 

[The Pol]

No, mine is through the side... look at that thread I sent you a link for, it details how to put the element through the side of the keggle.

 

[nathan]

ah, now I see. I love the small temp sensor.
I have a sight glass that has a T, I think it's quarter inch, but I have just a plug in the end that might be able to be used to thread in a sensor, if the sensor can stick in farther and is thin enough not to impede the flow into the sight glass.

I'm considerring adding some more valves and qd setups for whirlpooling in the kettle anyway. My over-the-side setup has a few drawbacks. Because it's in the wort on the inside, it has an air pocket in it, which makes it difficult to prime and start, and I put the outside qd's down low, but should have kept them high. I accidentally started a siphon by disconnecting one while the fluid level in the kettle was over the inside pipe... Even once it's lower, it still drops a half-to full cup of fluid out that way... I figured valves through the side would be easier to get started and control without air pockets.

sooooo... that's my long winded way of saying I ain't afeared of drilling the **** out of my vessles to add more components if necessary.

boy I can't wait to get started on this.

I've got a live tv event tomorrow night, so it'll be Wednesday before I can start trying to wrap my head around it all and run it past you.

 

[tannnick]

Pol, (this is MR. Zak, that you were helping the other week) That was my roommates account.

Anyways, I have been doing a lot of research and calculations. I am wondering how much total amperage you think you are using when the element is on.

So basically, if you are supplying 1 hot to the element from the one hot bus and the other hot is coming from the PID through the SSR (creating power, correct?), on the line coming into the control box, how much amps would the 5500w element actually be using? If the element is normally drawing 24A, how much is it drawing by using the SSR? Do you see what i'm saying?

I am trying to figure out wire size and all for going to the control box, and then what a sufficient size would be to hook the 5500w element from the control box? I am not going to be able to get the 2 PIDs, love controller, switches, and accessories all at one time, so I am piecing them together. Using manual switches for the time to turn on and off and then upgrading each vessel at a time.

Thanks again.

 

[The Pol]

You need #10AWG THHN wire for the 5500W element. The hot going to the SSR does NOT go through the PID though... it goes from the distribution block, to the SSR... the PID sends a low voltage DC signal to the SSR to switch the SSR power on and off.

But, you will need #10AWG THHN wire. You will be using about 24Amps

 

[tannnick]

Can i use SJEOW or SJTW wire? I have done some research and it seems that the SJTW is extremely similar to the THHN it seems. I work at a hardware store and have SJTW in stock. Also, do you recommend 4 prong plugs and outlets throughout the system? Is your BK perm. attached? i have seen people make outlet boxes on the back of the element to plug a made cord set into.

 

[The Pol]

Look in my gallery, I have pics of EVERYTHING in there... or look in this months new BYO magazine.

My BK is not permanently attached, ALL of my components have associated outlets that are all switched on and off by switches.

I am not familiar with the wire that you speak of.

I recommend grounding EVERYTHING... in most cases this means a THREE pring plug. I say to power the control panel with a 4 prong plug because if you are using 240VAC, you will have 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 gound... 4 wires, 4 prongs.

 

[nathan]

well, I just got sent out for travelling, so I'll be back monday and try to get some progress on detailing out what I think I should get to run past y'all.

WOOO!

 

[nathan]

okay, your parts:

Lowes:
30A Double Pole GFCI Breaker - $80
250V 50A 4 prong outlet - $7.50
8x8x4 junction box - $21.44
(20'?) 10/4 wire - $20
9 terminal ground bar - $4.50
1/4-20 SS wing nuts - $1.21
3/16" x 1/2" x 1/16" Rubber Washer - $0.92


Bargain Fittings:
SS straight thread nut (size?) - $8.25, $5 s&h

Harbor Freight:
Step Drill 1-3/8" - $15.99
JB Stik - $4.99
JB Weld - $4.79
Voltmeter/Multimeter - $4.99
?size? Crescent wrench - $4.99


Menards:
10' of #14 THHN wire - $2.50
15' of #12 THHN wire - $4.20
10' of #10 THHN wire - $3.80
3 pack 20A outlets - $12.99


Automation Direct:
3 Pole Distribution Block pb1043 - $19.25, $6 s&h


Auber Inst.: ($13 s&h)
?2? 1/16 DIN PID SYL-2352 - $44.50
?2? K type thermo couple TC-K6 - $6.85
?2? 40A SSR RS1A40D40 - $19.00
?2? 40A SSR Heatsink HS40 - $20.00


True Value:
Star Brite Liquid Electrical Tape 4oz - $3.03
3G 3 toggle wall plate - $.66
20A SP/ground toggle switch (2) - $5.60
30A DP/ground toggle switch - $10.78
longer? ?2? 6' 6/2 & 8/2 range cord Apollo - $17.43
30A Black/flush outlet (3 prong) Dryer - $2.76
longer? ?2? 6' 10/3 Dryer Cord Apollo - $7.20
?2? RIPP 5500W - $17.66
?2? 1" PVC Coupling



I have some questions... to do both the hlt and bk, do I need to get two of some of these items? (elements, pid, etc.)

Should I get a different box?

Another option is to do 3 boxes, one for hlt, one for bk, and one for switched normal outlets. I have space to put in two 240 breakers and outlets and one extra dedicated outlet for the switch box for pumps.

 

[The Pol]

My control panel BARELY fits the components that I have. So, you will need a much lager box.

You will need an element, PID, SSR and heat sink for each vessel you are heating.

My parts list, was for my own system upgrade... and will not fit anyone elses build. It will however give you an idea of the parts, suppliers and cost involved. Obviously it will need to be scaled to your setup.

 

[nathan]

Okay. If I used two circuits and outlets, could I get three boxes and separate them into individual setups? I kind of like the idea, and I can do it one at a time, in smaller sized bites. I guess I mean, would the controls set up for say, managing the HLT element and one outlet fit into the box you listed? If so, I'll do that as my first project -- use your parts list as a start, and get 3 boxes, 2 elements/pid/ssr/heat sinks.

box 1: all parts necessary are in list. PID controls element, regular outlet will eventually control hlt stirrer motor.

box 2: might need to pick up an extra outlet, but just a 3 switched outlet box with a standard cord so I just get easy switch control of some electric supplies for things (mainly pumps for now, so can run on one dedicated standard circuit and outlet in my garage like they do now already)

box 3: same as box 1, but I may not even need the outlet (wouldn't hurt to have anyway, though, in case I come up with a device that I want to use there). Just runs boil kettle. I add a whole new circuit and outlet and this has it's own 4 prong plug, so I could run this and the box1 managing hlt at same time if I wanted.

 

[nathan]

my plan would be to order your parts list, try and weasel you or someone into giving me a drawing to set it up to manage the hlt (control element and turn on/off outlet for stirrer, with switch for that to turn off until I actually add the stirrer).

Box 1 gets built and then I start using it.

Do same as above to get box 3 built and start using it.

At this point I can live without propane if I like, or use it to get to boil faster, heat hlt faster, etc.

build box 2, so I have a neat control system for my pumps, and one other accessory if I add it later (like if I decide to run the hlt stirrer manually instead of when hlt element is on, for instance). This would replace my current extension cord with splitter and two power strips with switches on them that control my two pumps now. Since it's the one I can live without the longest, it's last.

 

[nathan]

A friend came out and we planned out how I can set up the power supply for this in the garage, so I'll start on that soon. He even gave me the wire for the supply, so I'll try and get everything drilled and pulled so to be ready.

We're also looking at what parts I need to get on ordering to set up the first box to control the HLT element. I decided for sure to go one box at a time so it's in easy sections for me to afford and process.

I'll need to put on 20-30' cords so I can move this thing around as I modify my brewspace, but otherwise it'll be a first box that has a high voltage and standard outlet controlled by the PID. Like the Pol's, then it should turn on the outlets when it's powered on, so it runs the element and power for a stir-motor for when I get to that.

The setup for the temp sensor, does it have a way to unplug it? It'd be nice to still take the kegs outside for cleaning without unconnecting it at the keg with the wing nut, which means breaking the seal each cleaning.