Papazian is changing my mind about extract brewing

[wyzazz]

Baking soda? How do you mean?

Water Chemistry, Baking Soda adds Sodium & Carbonates. It's like salting the water and raising the PH all at once.

 

[MikeGottsch]

Okay, I admit to having judged hastily. I guess I overstated the "obstacles," based on my lack of knowledge about it. While I doubt I could come to your house, I think if I tried it with someone who is experienced at it, that would get me over the "fear factor" an any potential cons. Thanks for all your comments. Someday I will do all grain.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

Okay, I admit to having judged hastily. I guess I overstated the "obstacles," based on my lack of knowledge about it. While I doubt I could come to your house, I think if I tried it with someone who is experienced at it, that would get me over the "fear factor" an any potential cons. Thanks for all your comments. Someday I will do all grain.

Mike, we're all friends here...

I kinda thought you were joking...but my invitation stands: come over my house any brew day (brewing a red this Sunday) and I'll show you a great way to transition from extract to all grain. You're only a 1.5hr ride from me. PM me if interested.

You just have to be careful as you'll normally wade into more than debate on this forum LOL (bottling v kegging, extract v ag, rims v herms, electric v direct fire---can anyone else name a few?)

I have been brewing EXACTLY 11 months (one year anniversary is Thanksgiving 2009) and moved from extract to all grain after only a few batches using mostly gear that I already had around the house. Having done both, I have a strong preference for all grain...but stating the reasons why is likely to start a flame war...so I must keep this to myself.

I made investments where it made sense but I use a old cooler for a mashtun, and I batch sparge. I then split my boil into two 5 G pots, each holding about 3.5 to 4 gallons. These pots are split on the stove and hop additions split accordingly. Chilling is done separately through and IC and both minibatches then meet up again at the primary. Other brewers like Deathbrewer use the BIAB method with much success.

So, no harm no foul...hopefully my response wasn't too harsh...but as you can tell; you certainly got some attention here. Welcome to HBT.

 

[cheezydemon3]

If he looks like his avatar, I'd go.

All grain is great, but for the $ difference, I am proud of my ability to craft FANTASTIC beers with Pale DME and whatever grains I dictate without worrying about efficiency and the extra time.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

If he looks like his avatar, I'd go.

All grain is great, but for the $ difference, I am proud of my ability to craft FANTASTIC beers with Pale DME and whatever grains I dictate without worrying about efficiency and the extra time.

For the record, I look nothing like my avatar...I just can't enough of looking at that picture...I figured you perverts would feel the same way.

 

[specialkaye]

I'm pretty new here but would love to have an experienced brewer invite me over. If not for the learning, but also the company. I know one other "home brewer" and he only does wine.

I don't have a LHBS. There's two brew-on-premises wineries, both an hour to one and a half hours away. One of them sells beer making supplies, but I've never been to either. There's another brew store near where I work once a week, but there attitude was so poor that I won't go there. Time is money and the internet is quick and delivers right to my door.

Would I like to get into all grain? Sure. Eventually. Right now, I'm tickled pink with the extract because I can get good beer. Even at my skill/experience level. I think part of my fun is brewing is like a great big science experiment. And, you can get drunk with the results!

I cracked open my primary last night to rack to a secondary and was delighted with the heady aroma that wafted out. Even flat and warm, the extract cream ale was divine. And, when SWMBO says, "I can see drinking this," and keeps taking the cup out of my hand, I'm okay with what I'm doing. I made it for her. She likes it. I like it. Neither of us care that it wasn't all grain. Hell, I don't grow my own sugar cane, and process the juice, before I make candy either. And, Ragu can make the start of a good sauce.

 

[remilard]

I have a couple of anecdotes.

Jamil Zainesheff spoke at Hoppy Halloween this weekend and mentioned that he had recently made a beer out of hopped extract but otherwise using his typical cold side process. He said the beer was very good and he gave it to people he knew without saying what he did and asked if anything was different or off and people said it was great.

Also Mark Tanner brews extract and twice won High Plains Brewer of the Year and gets beers into the NHC second round every year.

So its not the extracts fault.

I think when people switch to all grain it corresponds with other investments in fermentation management or general increased knowledge and they give the all grain aspect too much credit. People who can make great all grain beer can make great extract beer if they want to, without exception.

I'm planning to brew some extract beers in the next few months. I'll send some to Upper Mississippi Mashout and some to NHC along with some all grain beers. I'll report back on the results. I expect to win with some extract beers and lose with some, just like I do with the all grain beers.

 

[Homercidal]

I think Remilard mostly hit it on the head. I know personally I was making much better beer with AG, but I was (and still am) making changes to my process. In fact, even my extract batches were continuing to improve regularly.

 

[SFsorrow]

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

I see what you did there. And I like it.

 

[Randar]

I've been an extract brewer for 7 years and have no plans of changing. I was tempted to try all-grain, but:

-- takes an entire day just to brew one batch

-- costs an arm and a leg for the needed equipment

-- need a special space; cannot do it in the kitchen

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

-- people who want to brew far more than 5 gallons at a time

-- people who believe their palates are more discriminating that a jeweler's eye and will not settle for being on the slightest side of imperfect

This post is ridiculous. 6 hours start to finish for a batch, married with kids, and the cost is not bad if you already have some of the equipment (you need to be able to boil and chill wort either way, so the only thing you're missing is a cooler MT.

 

[cheezydemon3]

GOD DAMMMIT RANDAR!!!!

He has been bashed up one side and kicked down the other, AND he has since manned up and apologized....

Read the thread please and GET OFF MIKE'S BACK!!!!!!!



Sorry, I am just getting tired of seeing that post quoted!

 

[GillandCo]

Apology accepted...Sometimes when I post stuff on this site im wrong, but were all here to learn. Glad to see you reconsidered All Grain and I hope you give it a try someday.

 

[dotnetdotcom]

Clifton, I've been thinking about getting that 33# jug. How long have you kept a jug of that? I don't have room in my fridge and worry about it getting infected.

BTW-I'm local and enjoy going to Listermann's.

 

[Clifton]

dotnet, does your screenname have anything to do with this?
"Homestarrunner.net......it's DOOOT COOOM."
Just made me think of it.
Back to the LME
I bought a jug of Briess Pilsen from Dan on 2/22/10 and used it all up by 9/7/10. I did store it (at least some of the time) in my keg fridge. I purchased another jug from a seperate retailer on 7/16/10. I still have a little over half of it left. Up until about a week ago I've been storing it in my basement on the floor in the closet. I put it in the fridge after I noticed on the package that it was best stored at 5-15 degrees C (41-59 F). The second jug was Munton's and I got it for $55 (maybe because it has a best by date of 12/2010). I didn't do this but I've heard that if you keg you can add some CO2 to the head space of the jug to ward off nasties. Others have advocated pouring a shot of cheap vodka onto the top of the LME. I haven't done that either.

If you buy from Listermann and keep the LME in the original container, use it w/in 6 months, and store it in a cool dark place, you should be fine.

 

[maida7]

morebeer.com has super low prices for LME and you can buy it in smaller sizes.

 

[estoppel]

I pay $6.45/lb of LME.... which is nuts.

 

[maida7]

I pay $6.45/lb of LME.... which is nuts.

Yeah that's very high. Morebeer.com has it for 2.30/lb for any quantity 6lbs or larger. Shipping is free if you spend over 59.00.

 

[remilard]

Yeah that's very high. Morebeer.com has it for 2.30/lb for any quantity 6lbs or larger. Shipping is free if you spend over 59.00.

And morebeer has excellent packaging on LME. I suspect exposure of liquid extract to oxygen is one of the bigger problems in extract brewing. One thing I often recommend to extract brewers having problems (if I don't have their beer or can't ID what is wrong with it with certainty) is to try a batch with dry extract and see if anything changes. Dry extract is very likely to be in good shape and if you ID the liquid extract you are buying as a problem you can start to look for a more reliable source (you could just use dry, but it is a fair bit more expensive).

 

[dotnetdotcom]

dotnet, does your screenname have anything to do with this?
"Homestarrunner.net......it's DOOOT COOOM."
Just made me think of it.

The user name comes from Dr. Evil, but I got it a little wrong. The actual line is "www dot shh dot com dot org". It was just a toss away user name to sign up on other forums, but it was easy to remember so I kept using it.

 

[estoppel]

I'd imagine shipping to the great white north will be cost-prohibitive, not to mention the brokerage charges and sales taxes charged at the border.