Pale Ale Recipe Advice

[coopertrooper]

Hello all,

I've been browsing these forums for a while now. Though I would tap into the wealth of knowledge here. I would appreciate your help.

I've been trying to create this recipe in my head, but haven't quite been able to actually reproduce it yet. What I am aiming for is a tropical/citrus hoppy pale ale with a little bit of pine/resinous taste in the background. I would like to emphasize that the beer I am trying to create will be mostly showcasing the tropical/citrus character. Perhaps 1/3 resinous/pine if that makes any sense.

Ideally the beer will be full of hop flavor. I am aiming for 35-40 IBU.

I like to stick to my base recipe that I like for my pale ales:
90% pale 2-row
5% vienna malt
5% 15L crystal malt

I was thinking about the following hop combinations:
Simcoe 60 mins: 10 g
Mosaic 10 mins: 8g
Simcoe 10 mins: 8g
Cascade 10 mins: 8g
Mosaic 5 mins: 8g
Simcoe 5 mins: 8g
Cascade 5 mins: 8g

Flameout addition at 150F for 30 minutes:
Mosaic 5 mins: 14g
Simcoe 5 mins: 14g
Cascade 5 mins: 14g

Dry Hop:
Mosaic 5 mins: 14g
Simcoe 5 mins: 14g
Cascade 5 mins: 14g

Yeast: Was thinking Wyeast 1056, but was also considering Voss kveik, or Hornindal kveik.

Would really appreciate some feedback on this. Would you recommend any changes? If so why (so I can learn)?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[jjjjfrench]

A few comments...take it for what its worth, which is probably not much.

I tend to like a bit more hop forward beers, so the hop schedule looks a bit light to me, but that is based mostly on personal preference.

I would cut out the 60 min addition. I don't see what that small amount at (presumably) full boil is bringing to the party. Secondly (and again this is personal preference) I stay away from Simcoe in full boil because I find bitterness of Simcoe harsh.

I love Mosaic, one of my favorite hops. But I also find inconsistency between years and the few growers in the same year. Sometimes I get a ton of tropical, sometimes I get fruit such as blueberry...for that reason, based on what you're looking for, I would pick a different hop. For citrus and tropical my go-to is Citra. It can also provide sufficient bittering for a nice balance.

For piney, my go-to is Chinook. I think it works well with Citra (and Cascade) and I would look that direction to get resinous notes.

Cascade is a classic that would work well with the above two mentioned varieties.

As far as schedule/times they look reasonable. If you're concerned about cutting out a 60 min addition, consider adding a 20 min of some Citra.

yeast...1056 is perfect. Clean and predictable.

-J

 

[coopertrooper]

A few comments...take it for what its worth, which is probably not much.

I tend to like a bit more hop forward beers, so the hop schedule looks a bit light to me, but that is based mostly on personal preference.

I would cut out the 60 min addition. I don't see what that small amount at (presumably) full boil is bringing to the party. Secondly (and again this is personal preference) I stay away from Simcoe in full boil because I find bitterness of Simcoe harsh.

I love Mosaic, one of my favorite hops. But I also find inconsistency between years and the few growers in the same year. Sometimes I get a ton of tropical, sometimes I get fruit such as blueberry...for that reason, based on what you're looking for, I would pick a different hop. For citrus and tropical my go-to is Citra. It can also provide sufficient bittering for a nice balance.

For piney, my go-to is Chinook. I think it works well with Citra (and Cascade) and I would look that direction to get resinous notes.

Cascade is a classic that would work well with the above two mentioned varieties.

As far as schedule/times they look reasonable. If you're concerned about cutting out a 60 min addition, consider adding a 20 min of some Citra.

yeast...1056 is perfect. Clean and predictable.

-J

Thanks for the advice! I've never brewed with Simcoe so I appreciate knowing about the harsh bitterness. Definitely not going for that here

Just to make sure I am on the same page:
Chinook 10 mins: 1/2oz
cascade 10 mins: 1/2oz
citra 10 mins: 1/2oz

Chinook 5 mins: 1/2oz
cascade 5 mins: 1/2oz
citra 5 mins: 1/2oz

Do you think that I should bump up the whirlpool addition? 1 oz of each? Maybe the same for the dry hop?

Also one more question, do you find a difference in the end product with different hop schedules? For example a beer with hop additions at 60, 30, 10, 5 vs one with everything under 10? I've tried the forward hop technique before and it felt kind of one dimensional. May have just been that the hops were all citrus hops...

Thanks,

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

For citrus and tropical my go-to is Citra

Agreed. I get some lemon and pine too so you could even finish it entirely with Citra and you might end up getting exactly what you want.

 

[Boleslaus]

My first question would be what do you want the malt/hop balance to be like? If you go too hop heavy, with such a light-ish malt base you could end up with a lower grav IPA (fine if that's what you want).

If you are going for a more traditional pale ale malt balance but with the hop character you describe I would actually not add more late hop additions and I would leave the 60 min Simcoe or substitute with equivalent AAU of Cascade. You should be getting between 15-20 IBU's from that addition so its hardly irrelevant. I personally like the hop varieties you have selected. Could up the late additions to 14g across the board but only do a 60, 10, whirlpool, and dry hop. I make a pale ale with Simcoe, Cascade, and Amarillo (so quite similar) and think it has many of the hop flavors you are looking for.

 

[Dgallo]

I think this recipe is absolutely fine. Recently with the NEIPA hop bills people have begun put 8 oz is their pale ales which is really too much for style. Pale ales are supposed to be balanced drinkable beer with a touch of maltyness and touch of hop character and just enough ibus to be slightly off centered. Which your current recipe will do. If you want it hoppier up the ibus 15, If you want it juicier up the hops 30% and split between whirlpool and dryhop

 

[coopertrooper]

I wanted to take the time to thank everybody for their input. One thing about beer, and what makes a good one, is that it is highly subjective.

I have attached the recipe I am leaning towards. Won't be able to brew for another week or so as I am busting ass to finish school.

 

[jjjjfrench]

Thanks for the advice! I've never brewed with Simcoe so I appreciate knowing about the harsh bitterness. Definitely not going for that here

Just to make sure I am on the same page:
Chinook 10 mins: 1/2oz
cascade 10 mins: 1/2oz
citra 10 mins: 1/2oz

Chinook 5 mins: 1/2oz
cascade 5 mins: 1/2oz
citra 5 mins: 1/2oz

Do you think that I should bump up the whirlpool addition? 1 oz of each? Maybe the same for the dry hop?

Also one more question, do you find a difference in the end product with different hop schedules? For example a beer with hop additions at 60, 30, 10, 5 vs one with everything under 10? I've tried the forward hop technique before and it felt kind of one dimensional. May have just been that the hops were all citrus hops...

Thanks,

I like that hop schedule amount better. Keeping the whirlpool and dry hop the same as original brings the total hop bill to 6 oz. This is well within the range of a pale ale and should not be too hop forward. You could consider moving the 10 min addition to 20 min--that might provide a bit better balance between IBU bitterness and the perceived sweetness that you will come from very late additions.

Regarding another's comment of your choice of original choice of hops...I agree that combination is a really good combination, but I disagree that it would bring the piney/resinous touch that you are looking for...hence the recommendation for Chinook.

Regardless, I think whatever you decide we're splitting hairs, and the beer will turn out very drinkable...then go from there and make small adjustments in the future.

-J

 

[coopertrooper]

For those who might be interested. This beer turned out fantastic! Taste and aroma are very similar, tons of citrus/floral notes at the front and pine in the background. Very hoppy, "juicy" would be a good word to describe it. Smooth bitterness spot on in my opinion.

I've attached the recipe for anyone who wants to try it. Used nottingham for the yeast, 1 pack rehydrated.

 

[Saffersa]

Sounds very very tasty.
If you dont mind, I'd like to keep a copy of your recipe- trying to build a collection of pale ale recipes to work thru this year while I home-learn to brew my own beer, and try narrow down what I'm looking for in my own recipe.
I only discovered pale ales about 5 years ago here in South Africa, as the majority of folks here prefer a lager, so for a long time that's what was on the market.
Hope you and your family etc well during lockdown.

 

[coopertrooper]

Sounds very very tasty.
If you dont mind, I'd like to keep a copy of your recipe- trying to build a collection of pale ale recipes to work thru this year while I home-learn to brew my own beer, and try narrow down what I'm looking for in my own recipe.
I only discovered pale ales about 5 years ago here in South Africa, as the majority of folks here prefer a lager, so for a long time that's what was on the market.
Hope you and your family etc well during lockdown.

Thank you, and same to you! Absolutely, keep a copy and I hope you enjoy it when you get around to making it.

 

[Saffersa]

Hello all
Hope everyone is well.
New to posting, new to forum, new to brewing my own, so very new all round.

I was hoping I could ask for some advice?
I've put together a recipe for a pale ale that I cobbled together from a few others, and have already brewed a 20L batch, which still in the fermenter bubbling away, but I have enough ingredients for a second batch a friend and I plan on cooking up sometime soon.

Ingredients:
Malts:
3kg SAB pale ale
1kg Munich type I
500gr Caraamber
500gr Carapils

Hops:
200gr Cascade (what I have on hand, not necessarily all I plan on using the next time)

Yeast:
11.5gr safale us-5 ( or thereabouts. Apologies to the purists)

Method:
Mash @65°C for 1hr
Batch sparge
Boil wort for 1hr
10gr cascade at 15
25gr cascade at 45
10gr cascade at 58
Chill,syphon, pitch etc
Dry hop 10gr @ day 3
Bottle @ day 8

As I mentioned earlier, this is already in the fermenter and we're obviously dieing to try it, but theres a few days still to go.
Patience is a virtue. I'm working on it.

The plan is to have another go at the second batch sometime soon, but I'd really appreciate any comments or advice that anyone can spare, because as I said at the top....so very new.
Best regards

 

[Saffersa]

Thank you, and same to you! Absolutely, keep a copy and I hope you enjoy it when you get around to making it.

Many thanks sir

 

[coopertrooper]

Hello all
Hope everyone is well.
New to posting, new to forum, new to brewing my own, so very new all round.

I was hoping I could ask for some advice?
I've put together a recipe for a pale ale that I cobbled together from a few others, and have already brewed a 20L batch, which still in the fermenter bubbling away, but I have enough ingredients for a second batch a friend and I plan on cooking up sometime soon.

Ingredients:
Malts:
3kg SAB pale ale
1kg Munich type I
500gr Caraamber
500gr Carapils

Hops:
200gr Cascade (what I have on hand, not necessarily all I plan on using the next time)

Yeast:
11.5gr safale us-5 ( or thereabouts. Apologies to the purists)

Method:
Mash @65°C for 1hr
Batch sparge
Boil wort for 1hr
10gr cascade at 15
25gr cascade at 45
10gr cascade at 58
Chill,syphon, pitch etc
Dry hop 10gr @ day 3
Bottle @ day 8

As I mentioned earlier, this is already in the fermenter and we're obviously dieing to try it, but theres a few days still to go.
Patience is a virtue. I'm working on it.

The plan is to have another go at the second batch sometime soon, but I'd really appreciate any comments or advice that anyone can spare, because as I said at the top....so very new.
Best regards

Welcome to brewing! Its a lot of fun. One piece of advice I could give is in the beginning don't be afraid to follow a tried and true recipe. I brewed quite a few recipes in the beginning and tried to follow them exactly. Then you start to get an idea of what the different components of the beer contribute to it.

Looking at your recipe I'm sure it will be a tasty beer. The big question is what were you aiming for when you designed the recipe? What I mean is what do you envision the beer to become. Do you want a bitter beer? What kind of hop flavors are you going for? More malt forward or hop forward? I try to start with the end in mind when I am brewing.

Only thing I would say is carapils is usually used as 5% of the grain bill for head retention. In your recipe it is 12.5%. I'm not sure what this will do to the taste but I'm sure it will be fine. Seems like your beer will definitely be more malty then hoppy which may be what you are going for.

If you are looking for a free tool to help you design your beer I can recommend brewcipher. Such an awesome tool to help design your beer. In the beginning you may be a little intimidated by it, but just learn one thing at a time: BrewCipher 6.0


If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Saffersa]

Hi Coopertrooper

Thanks for the encouragement.
I've been wanting to start my own brews for a while, but I suppose I just lacked sufficient push-incentive. Lockdown has remedied that for me. I'm in South Africa, and we currently have an alcohol and cigarette ban condition on our lockdown measures, although its permissible to buy the raw ingredients. Go figure.

My plan was to follow a recipe someone gave me, but a few days before brewing I gave the recipe a proper look and lots of info was missing, so needs must and I hashed something together that would fit my ingredients as best I could.

I was hoping for a pale ale mild enough to meet my brew-buddys preferences but also interesting enough to pique my interest as I quite like a citrusy IPA, so I suppose what I know as an American Pale Ale, which I know doesn't really say much.

To be honest, at this stage into Lockdown, neither of us is looking to be fussy and will just be happy with something tasty to drink ( if I see another Heineken 0% I'll scream).

Thank you for the advice re the Carapils % - I will definitely bear that in mind for a future brew, as its readily available over here.
I guess, seeing as how I intend on this being a long-term habit and skill that I'd like to develop, that I think I would gain some good experience by balancing the flavour profile in the next batch and going a bit more hop-forward.
It would great to compare the 1st, more malty batch to the second batch either more balanced or way more hop-forward, either way I'm very keen to try.
Would you be able to advise on a specific amount of hops to add and at what particular time into the boil?

Thanks for the info on Brewcipher, I will definitely have a gander at it.

Best wishes to you sir, and thanks again

 

[coopertrooper]

Hi Coopertrooper

Thanks for the encouragement.
I've been wanting to start my own brews for a while, but I suppose I just lacked sufficient push-incentive. Lockdown has remedied that for me. I'm in South Africa, and we currently have an alcohol and cigarette ban condition on our lockdown measures, although its permissible to buy the raw ingredients. Go figure.

My plan was to follow a recipe someone gave me, but a few days before brewing I gave the recipe a proper look and lots of info was missing, so needs must and I hashed something together that would fit my ingredients as best I could.

I was hoping for a pale ale mild enough to meet my brew-buddys preferences but also interesting enough to pique my interest as I quite like a citrusy IPA, so I suppose what I know as an American Pale Ale, which I know doesn't really say much.

To be honest, at this stage into Lockdown, neither of us is looking to be fussy and will just be happy with something tasty to drink ( if I see another Heineken 0% I'll scream).

Thank you for the advice re the Carapils % - I will definitely bear that in mind for a future brew, as its readily available over here.
I guess, seeing as how I intend on this being a long-term habit and skill that I'd like to develop, that I think I would gain some good experience by balancing the flavour profile in the next batch and going a bit more hop-forward.
It would great to compare the 1st, more malty batch to the second batch either more balanced or way more hop-forward, either way I'm very keen to try.
Would you be able to advise on a specific amount of hops to add and at what particular time into the boil?

Thanks for the info on Brewcipher, I will definitely have a gander at it.

Best wishes to you sir, and thanks again

Hey Saffersa,

Clearly, there are so many ways to build a recipe. So keep that in mind with what I am recommending. The biggest thing will be as you said, to try the beer and see what you liked/ didn't like and adjust as necessary.

Personally, I would simplify the recipe. 2-row (85% of grain), munich (10%), carapils (5%). As for the hops, lately I have been trying one bittering charge at 60 minutes (something like magnum). You could use cascade as well it will just take more. Then I add all the rest of my hops after I have chilled to 55C and let it "steep for 30 minutes". The idea is to maximize hop flavor since they aren't boiled off.

You will need to calculate the target IBUs that you want (with brewcipher or any online calculator). The bitterness from the 55C addition will be fairly low, probably under 10 IBU depending on type and amounts of hops. You could disregard this, and only calculate the IBU's from the 60 minute boil addition. Google: "BU:GU" ratio american pale ale. Try to follow something similar.

I would say for a 5 gallon batch, using 112g-168g of will give you lots of nice hop flavor. You can experiment with it but I would say 56g at the 55C addition, and 56g as a dry hop for 5 days.

Good luck!

 

[Saffersa]

Hi Coopertrooper

Thanks for spending the time on this.
As you and others have suggested, I should limit the grain bill for now, and play around with the hops amounts and drop-timing to get more of a feel, or is it taste, for things that are happening in the brew.
To be sure, the next batch I do will have many alterations amended to the process.
Hope the rest of your weekend is a super one.
Cheers