Orange juice to lower mash PH?

[keke]

Hi everyone, I am thinking of trying to use some good old fresh squeezed orange juice to try and lower my mash PH.
I'm guessing some of you reading this might wonder why am I even thinking of this.
Well, I live in Israel, and the water in my area is super hard, and home brewing here isn't as popular as it is in other countries. So getting my hands on some Lactic Acid could be a bit tricky.
A few years back I had a PH probe and it confirmed my assumption that my mash PH is way high. It usually was around 6.0.
And I'm planning to brew a very hop forward beer so I thought a bit of citrus flavor couldn't hurt for this beer style.
What do you guys think? Could this work? Has anyone tried something similar before? Does anyone expect something to go wrong with this?
P.S: I know specialty grains can help with lowering the mash PH, but I want to go with a very simple grain bill, 100% pale malt.

 

[IceChisel]

It's probably best to use acidulated malt. That is malt sprayed with lactic acid.

If that is not available then phosphoric acid or citric acid, in that order.

Maybe you have access to food grade hydrochloric or sulfuric acids. Though use those with caution.

Raw orange or lemon juice should be used as a last resort and may not produce the results you intend.

 

[keke]

What do you mean by 'may not produce the results you intend'?
Off flavors? Not lowering PH?

 

[IceChisel]

Fermented lemon/orange juice doesn't generally turn out to be very appetizing. It's not like apple juice or grape juice, though the opposite, vodka added to orange juice is fine.

This is something generally thought done in prisons because it's a last resort.

Meads made with oranges are ok but that's a different process with a different yeast.

It will lower your pH due to the citric acid but will require a lot of juice and thus will introduce too many other orange by products, which won't play well with the malt phosphates and malt/hop polyphenols.

You should be able to just make a sauergut to acidify your mash. Make a gallon of 1.040 wort with your grain, then inoculate it with a .125-.25 lb of raw grains to sour it, keeping it at ~120F until the pH drops to ~3.5. Use this soured wort in your mash and post boil to adjust to desired pH at these steps.

http://www.********************/ing...tastes,acid AND oxygen buffering capabilities.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/biological-acidification.643554/

 

[shetc]

https://israel.desertcart.com/products/47912680-lactic-acid-80-standard-1-kg

 

[VikeMan]

Fermented lemon/orange juice doesn't generally turn out to be very appetizing. It's not like apple juice or grape juice, though the opposite, vodka added to orange juice is fine.

I've had some pretty good beers made with orange juice. IMO adjusting hop bitterness downward is key. Once OJ's sugar is gone, it's quite bitter.

 

[IceChisel]

You can mix beer and orange juice to make a beermosa.

Actually mashing with orange juice and then boiling with hops is a different story.

I'd be interested in a successful recipe that does that.

 

[VikeMan]

Actually mashing with orange juice and then boiling with hops is a different story.

I'd be interested in a successful recipe that does that.

I was referring to orange juice added to secondary.

 

[IceChisel]

That may or may not work, but the OP wants to mash with it.

 

[VikeMan]

That may or may not work,

It does.

but the OP wants to mash with it.

Oh, I know he does. I was responding to "Fermented lemon/orange juice doesn't generally turn out to be very appetizing." Personally, I wouldn't mess with fruits/juices in a mash or a boil.

 

[day_trippr]

I gotta say, the whole concept seems unlikely to produce a truly enjoyable beer...

Cheers!

 

[keke]

https://israel.desertcart.com/products/47912680-lactic-acid-80-standard-1-kg

Out of stock ):
Also in the description it says something about skin peel. Not sure if this is food grade.

 

[keke]

Thank you all for the comments!
Sounds like most of you agree that this will probably give negative affects to the beer.
I guess I'll look for some other creative way to lower mash PH

 

[couchsending]

2019 GABF gold In German Style Sour Ale was made with Meyer lemons in the mash to hit pH targets. Wanted to try it ever since I heard that.., one day.

 

[VikeMan]

I guess I'll look for some other creative way to lower mash PH

Can you get Calcium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum), Magnesium Chloride, or Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts)? Any of these would lower mash pH. I know you said your water is "super hard," and if so, these salts might not be ideal, i.e they would lower mash pH, but would make your water even harder, but by super hard, did you by any chance mean "very alkaline?" Do you have a water report?

 

[radwizard]

I would go with the Sauergut Starter. It should be pretty easy for you to whip up 2 liters of Sour Wort and use that for an acid addition.
I would even suggest that this could be nicer then the other options you do not have available to you now anyways.