Grounded Brewing Technologies also use the Omron controller. It is a hugely capable industrial controller. Here's a link to the manual, that describes along with examples some use case scenarios. http://industrial.omron.com.br/uploads/arquivos/E5CC-E5EC-Users-manual.pdf
The way in which controllers work is varied and depending on your understanding, one may be easier to use than the other. It's whether you really appreciate a plug and play solution or have an interest to learn and select something which needs more complex understanding.Yup, I've seen all of those things, I just don't understand why it's a better PID than an Auber?
Does it have a better PID algorithm?
You say it's "hugely capable". Great! What capabilities are being used in these GBT and SSB systems that are above and beyond the Auber PID capability? (I'm just using Auber as an example, could be Inkbird, MyPin, etc...)
I can barley read the Grounded Brewing Technologies web site due to poor font selection and site design.
Yup, I've seen all of those things, I just don't understand why it's a better PID than an Auber?
Does it have a better PID algorithm?
You say it's "hugely capable". Great! What capabilities are being used in these GBT and SSB systems that are above and beyond the Auber PID capability? (I'm just using Auber as an example, could be Inkbird, MyPin, etc...)
I can barley read the Grounded Brewing Technologies web site due to poor font selection and site design.
Well as discussed a couple weeks ago, there kind of is when it comes to our application... The ezboil units work fantastic out of the box and does achieve and hold temps noticable better with no tuning. It does not use the standard pid algorithm . The pids I have used all required some setup and tuning. If you had actual experience with using one you would see what other and myself mean.There is no "magical algorithm" or secret Ninja A.I. necessary to heat a big slug of liquid and keep it at a set temperature. This is all marketing junk.
However, those Omron PIDs are higher quality construction than Auber, Inkbird, Mypin.
Well as discussed a couple weeks ago, there kind of is when it comes to our application... The ezboil units work fantastic out of the box and does achieve and hold temps noticable better with no tuning. It does not use the standard pid algorithm . The pids I have used all required some setup and tuning. If you had actual experience with using one you would see what other and myself mean.
My 2 cents,
In the end they all work fine and one isnt going to have enough advantage over the other (unless functionality like manual duty cycle mode is missing) to have any noticeable effect on the beer being made.
once you learn the menu structure of a particular device it can be inconvenient to try using another brand regardless. The omron is a commercial pid (likely UL listed and such) packed with a lot of features and function, many of them likely wont apply to its function here and can actually make it too cumbersome to navigate and use for some.
EDIT, Ironically I liked the mypin setup better than the ezboil, likely because I used them for years and when I went to the ezboil I found the menu structure confusing at times.
I hate the UI on the My pin PIDs and I'm not crazy about the Auber either but MOST people are using the auber Ezboil units instead of traditional PID and these are distinctly better than any button press PID ive used. That is to say that the Omron may be fantastic but its not going to replace my Ezboil uniy anytime soon.
I dont have the link offhand .. if you search recent threads both I or golfinda commented in you will find it from about 2 weeks ago.
The ezboil units work fantastic out of the box and does achieve and hold temps noticable better with no tuning. It does not use the standard pid algorithm.
well unlike my pids out of the box, it climbs right to setpoint and holds it perfectly without overshooting regardless of whether I was doing a 5 gallon or 10 gallon brew and regardless of flow. My pid would osolate by constantly under or over correcting causing overshooting.. pids need to be tuned to correct this and then if the mass or flow changes they ideally need to be tuned again.Please define "noticeably better". This is like toothpaste that promises "3x whiter" teeth. Marketing psychology.
Either the device heats a big slug of liquid to a predetermined temp and keeps it there, or it doesnt. I wonder if anyone has tested my fred flintsone PID settings against the magical ezboiler "AI" technology to see if one is noticeably better....
One of the unique things about this particular PID controller is that it doesn’t rely on high speed switching to modulate heat, but rather an internal solid state voltage regulator (SSVR), which means wattage to the element is proportional. Simply put– this feature is what allows a fabric grain bag to be placed directly on the element without risk of scorching, a claim my experiences with this unit wholly confirm.
At the top of the controller is a small toggle switch used to set the controller in either manual or automatic mode. When set to manual mode, the user is able to set the percentage of power going to the element. Crank it to 100% for quick heating of strike water and set it to 75% to maintain a perfect rolling boil. Automatic mode is used to dial in precise temperatures, which is ideal for step mashing, maintaining a single infusion rest temperature, or holding kettle sours at a particular temperature for extended amounts of time.
You can do this with pwm duty cycle mode on a regular pid as well just set the cycle time to 1 second and the pulses will turn the element on a percentage of each second effectively controlling the surface temp of the element. the mypin pids are setup this way by default in manual mode.Brulosophy said this about the SSBrewTech system:
http://brulosophy.com/2018/12/20/ss-brewtech-1v-electric-brewing-system-product-review/
I'm not sure if that means the Omron controller is connected to a proportional SSR and the switch puts the controller in manual mode??
I also don't know about the ability to place the bag directly on the element because it's proportional controlled. Why does that allow you to place the bag on the element?
also likely because the omron is allowed to be used in commercial breweries due to ul listing certifications and since they already use them for the larger commercial panels they make.. many area dont allow the use of things like stc1000 controllers.. you have to use ul listed equvilents which cost many times more because of large fees involved in certifying it.. its used as a form of import control and price setting these days as much as anything.SSBrewtech and Grounded brewing are probably using that controller because they made a deal with Omron to supply it to them on terms they found favorable. I doubt it's because they felt it PIDs better. I don't know that Auber is set-up to supply commercial businesses with products. It seems they are more focused on selling to end-users on primarily hobby scale operations or small home businesses. I don't know that for sure, but I'm just guessing that Omron was a better option for reliable supply and/or warranty, support, bulk pricing.
Using a UL component doesnt make the assembly UL. Just keep that in mind. OP, why dont you buy an ezboil and Omron and try them out?
Thought one might stand out or that one had some magic algorithm (PID, Fuzzy, AI, etc..). Always trying to zero in on the truth. Buying both might just be the way to go.
Yes but if the components arent ul listed the panel cant be at all. Since they make panels for commercial use they would use ul components there and when it comes to pids it would be easier for them to keep the pid choice uniform regardless.Using a UL component doesnt make the assembly UL. Just keep that in mind. OP, why dont you buy an ezboil and Omron and try them out?
What is the complete model number of your unit?How do you adjust the boil output percentage power? I’m looking at the instruction that came with the Omron PID but it’s confusing.
What is the complete model number of your unit?
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Gotta agree with you there. I spent ~1/2 hour looking at the manual, and still don't have a clue.How do you adjust the boil output percentage power? I’m looking at the instruction that came with the Omron PID but it’s confusing.
Gotta agree with you there. I spent ~1/2 hour looking at the manual, and still don't have a clue.
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You can find the manual here. It isn't written for a novice.Here’s the response I got from Rex:
“Yeah on the boil pid if you hold the <<PF button down until MANU in yellow appears on the screen.
This will put you in manual mode and will actually be in a range of 0-105. Usually around the 70-80 it a good setting but you can play with it to see.
One thing to check before doing so could be to hold the rectangular button down for at least 3 seconds to get you into the main menu. Then hit the circular arrow button until it says CP on the screen. Make sure this is set to 5. This will give you the best results in manual mode”
Sincerely,
Rex
Grounded Brewing Technologies
These PIDS didn’t come with a booklet. Only a folded up paper with 5 other languages on it
You can find the manual here. It isn't written for a novice.
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you would even have a setting of 105% for a PWM output. You can't be more "on" than on 100% of the time. (On an analog voltage or current output in would make sense.)
I would recommend a CP setting of 1 or 2 (whatever the minimum allowed is) rather than 5 (assuming the CP setting units are seconds.) A 5 second cycle time (Control Period) would likely give you noticeable pulsing in your boil intensity. Not really a problem, but doesn't look right.
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Set ATSP = 200°F (96°C) and OUTH = 100%, set boiling output dial to 65%, and the timer to start at 210°F (99°C) for 60 minutes. When the controller is powered up, it will heat the liquid with full power capacity of the heating element. After the water temperature reaches 200°F, the power is automatically reduced to 65%. As soon the temperature climbs to 210°F, the timer is activated. Sixty minutes later, the power will be turned off and the controller will send long beeps and flashing "End" on the display. During the boil, the user can use the rotary knob to fine tune the boil at any time. There is also a programmable alarm that can be set to an important temperature to notify the user to take action. The figure below shows how the power is correlated to the temperature and time.![]() Figure 1. Power output correction with temperature and time. |
I'm working with Rex @ Grounded Brew Tech on a new panel. He's super helpful and their panels look great.
But the stock Omron PIDs don't seem to have a simple way to do the following program that EZboil has out of the box below. So I'm thinking of asking him to swap out the Omron E5CC with the Auber DSPR320.
I'm looking for your advice on:
a) a way to program the Omron to do a similar program as below? or
b) a compelling reason why Omron PID is significantly better (not just better lookingthan the Auber?
I got a Biab panel from Grounded Brewing. I decided to go with the ezboil 320 and he swapped it out for a small upcharge. Have not tested it too much. But has worked well so farI'm working with Rex @ Grounded Brew Tech on a new panel. He's super helpful and their panels look great.
But the stock Omron PIDs don't seem to have a simple way to do the following program that EZboil has out of the box below. So I'm thinking of asking him to swap out the Omron E5CC with the Auber DSPR320.
I'm looking for your advice on:
a) a way to program the Omron to do a similar program as below? or
b) a compelling reason why Omron PID is significantly better (not just better lookingthan the Auber?
EZboil Setup
Set ATSP = 200°F (96°C) and OUTH = 100%, set boiling output dial to 65%, and the timer to start at 210°F (99°C) for 60 minutes. When the controller is powered up, it will heat the liquid with full power capacity of the heating element. After the water temperature reaches 200°F, the power is automatically reduced to 65%. As soon the temperature climbs to 210°F, the timer is activated. Sixty minutes later, the power will be turned off and the controller will send long beeps and flashing "End" on the display. During the boil, the user can use the rotary knob to fine tune the boil at any time. There is also a programmable alarm that can be set to an important temperature to notify the user to take action. The figure below shows how the power is correlated to the temperature and time.
![]()
Figure 1. Power output correction with temperature and time.
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