Old Smoke Barleywine

[gunnerm109a6]

Hello Friends,

I have put together an interesting barley wine I would like to try. I would like to give decoction mashing a try along with using a bit of smoked malt and possibly some oak cubes in secondary. I would like this to be an imperial BW but I will accept a high grav BW due to lower efficiency.

The grain bill looks something like this:

Hops Used

1.00 oz Magnum [15.80 %] - First Wort 105.0 min Hop 6 54.6 IBUs
1.75 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 17.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.10 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs


Fermentables

22 lbs 2.9 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 94.6 %
10.5 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 2.8 %
3.2 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 0.9 %
3.2 oz Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 0.9 %
3.2 oz Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.9 %

Misc Ingredients
3.80 oz Oak Chips (Secondary ~7.0 days)

Yeast will be American Ale in the trub from a batch of Pumpkin Ale followed another pack when things slow maybe American Ale II

I will be grateful for any advice!

Cheers!

 

[JLem]

what kind of smoked malt are you planning on using? I think 3oz of weyerman beech smoked malt will be completely hidden in this beer. On the other hand, 3 oz of peat-smoked malt will be noticeable, but it is generally not recommended as it has a very strong/harsh flavor.

That also seems like a ton of oak to use. I would go with only 1-1.5 ounces personally.

 

[gunnerm109a6]

Briess has a Cherry smoked malt I want to try, still working on the amount.

The oak does seem a bit much. Its going to be a taste as I go kind of thing.

 

[JLem]

Briess has a Cherry smoked malt I want to try, still working on the amount.

The oak does seem a bit much. Its going to be a taste as I go kind of thing.

I haven't used the cherry smoked malt, but my impression is that it would be similar to the beech smoked. I'm not sure that 3 oz will get you anything noticeable.

Be careful with the oak...better to err on the side of too little than too much...you can always add more if you want...you can't take it away once it's there (though oak flavor will mellow with time)

 

[Jebu1788]

I haven't used the cherry smoked malt, but my impression is that it would be similar to the beech smoked. I'm not sure that 3 oz will get you anything noticeable.

It's actually quite different. With beech you get a bacon-like taste and a really meaty sense, whereas the cherry wood, while still some of that has a much more "camp-fire" taste. I've used a hefty dose in a smoked porter and it was quite nice.

But I agree, 3oz of cherry wood won't really be detectable. Depending on how much smoke you want 1-3lbs would be more like it. (Unless you want Schlenkerla smoke, which uses 100% beech wood smoked grains!)

As for peat, I don't know what the opposition seems to be. I love the stuff. But use much more sparingly than other smoked beers. Stone smoked porter uses about 3% of the grist. So if you want peat, personally, I don't see a problem with 3oz in this recipe.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

The wood definite changes how the malt smells and tastes. I've oak and mesquite smoked malt. Entirely different from the beech-smoked rauchmalt or peat malt. Peat malt is very intense and has a more acrid taste if you use it in larger quantities. It isn't a flavor for everybody.

If you are just trying to add a hint of smoke you do not need to add a lot but in a bigger beer like a barleywine and one that will probably age for a while I would go 5% minimum but probably look at 10-12% to account for the bigger beer and longer aging. Smoke flavor will age out over time.

I would also start the oak at 1oz per 5 gallons for a week or two, take it out, let it sit a week and then taste to see if it needs more.

 

[JLem]

It's actually quite different. With beech you get a bacon-like taste and a really meaty sense, whereas the cherry wood, while still some of that has a much more "camp-fire" taste. I've used a hefty dose in a smoked porter and it was quite nice.

The wood definite changes how the malt smells and tastes. I've oak and mesquite smoked malt. Entirely different from the beech-smoked rauchmalt or peat malt.

Sorry...I should have been more specific...I meant that the cherry smoked malt would be similar to beech-smoked malt (rauchmalt) in terms of the amount to use compared to peat-smoked...not in terms of the flavor it would produce.

I used ~5% beech-smoked malt in the grist for an imperial porter (for lack of a better term). It came out at 9.3% ABV and I aged it on ~1 oz of Hungarian oak cubes (medium toast). You could definitely taste the smoke and the oak, but neither was overpowering. I still have several bottles left (brewed in February 2011)...haven't had on ein a while...I should crack one open to see how time has affected the smoke and oak flavors.

 

[gunnerm109a6]

How much do you think I should use to get a little smoke flavor in the final product?

 

[JLem]

How much do you think I should use to get a little smoke flavor in the final product?

I would say to try 5-10% of your grist. BTW, is your recipe for a 5 or 10 gallon batch?

 

[gunnerm109a6]

At first, I thought to do a 5 gallon batch but I am considering scaling it down to a two gallon batch aging in two 1 gallon carboys. That way I can play with the oaking in one and keep the other un-oaked.

I will up the smoked malt percentage to about 10% based on your advice!

 

[Jebu1788]

Sorry...I should have been more specific...I meant that the cherry smoked malt would be similar to beech-smoked malt (rauchmalt) in terms of the amount to use compared to peat-smoked...not in terms of the flavor it would produce.

Ah yes. I agree completely.