Ok 1st All Grain today... Just a few ???

[MadCnty]

Ok so today I set up my 1st all grain brew... Not bad for 1st all grain BUT coming from extract, I had WAY too much wort at the end IMHO... 60 min boil stainless keg/10gal Igloo... BS2 calculated 9.95 gallons needed and I still held back on even that amount... I hit low OG (added 1/2 cup wheat DME and was good)... and I am thinking wth went wrong...
Just fyi it was a wheat beer so 50/50 wheat/2row with .5lb added rice hulls
Mashed at 4 gallons @151 then batched @ 168 for 10 w/another 4 gallons... SO too much water for a 5.5 gallon batch??? BTW I poured out over 2 gallons of wort, as the primary was full...
I know need to scale back water, but I am shooting for a two stage batch sparge with equal amounts of water...
So experts PLEASE chime in on this to let me know... What you are using for your batch sparges AND am I just being a noob , and boil more too....

 

[kh54s10]

You will need to dial in your equipment profile until you get the preboil volumes that will give you the right amount after the boil. I have mine close but I still drain the mash then measure how much went into the kettle. I then do a sparge with about 1/2 the total I need. I then do a second sparge to get the rest. I generally leave very little in the mash tun. I need right around 7 gallons to end up with just over 5 gallons into the fermenter.

 

[MadCnty]

Well I am using a bag in the MLT as well and drained the "deadspace" Looks like its going to be more notes...

 

[Braufessor]

You said you used 4 gallons to mash and 4 gallons to sparge...... seems like you did not use too much water to me (roughly). To be honest, I think there is something wrong with your numbers somewhere here, because they don't really add up.

You said you poured out over 2 gallons of wort after putting 5.5 gallons in the primary....... you only started with 8 gallons.

So, according to these numbers you had 0% of your water absorbed by your grain, collected all 8 gallons of wort, boiled off less than a half gallon in an hour+ long boil, finished with 7.5+ gallons, transferred 5.5 gallons, and dumped out the rest - I don't see how that is possible.

Did you do a full 6o minute rolling boil?

How much wort did you actually collect in your boil kettle after the sparge?

 

[Braufessor]

Also - how do you know how many gallons you were dealing with in boil kettle etc. - is it measured/calibrated, or were you sort of estimating?

 

[MadCnty]

Ok my numbers may be off a bit as I really did not measure the water per say... I used almost 2 5 gal water jugs, (my water here at home is WAY too hard...) and I poured them to the bottom ring of the jug... I also do not know how much wort I dumped but it was quite a bit IMHO... And I never do a rolling boil more like a simmer boil as to not caramelize the sugars more than needed... Basically I just wondered why BS2 called for so much water in the first place... And the wort collected came to the center ring of the Keggle and was about 1 and 1/2 inches below that after the boil...

 

[grathan]

I think Beersmith has some funky default values. Like trub loss. and cooling loss (how is it cooling loss when the water gets measured cool?), and boil-off I think defaults to a gallon.

 

[Braufessor]

Ok my numbers may be off a bit as I really did not measure the water per say... I used almost 2 5 gal water jugs, (my water here at home is WAY too hard...) and I poured them to the bottom ring of the jug... I also do not know how much wort I dumped but it was quite a bit IMHO... And I never do a rolling boil more like a simmer boil as to not caramelize the sugars more than needed... Basically I just wondered why BS2 called for so much water in the first place... And the wort collected came to the center ring of the Keggle and was about 1 and 1/2 inches below that after the boil...

8 gallons seems to be in the ball park - but as others have mentioned - every system is different.

For me, on a 10lb grain bill or so, I use about 4 gallons in my mash tun (there is dead space in the bottom too), and then I put 6 gallons in the sparge kettle - but I lose a gallon to dead space there too..... so more like 5. I collect 8 gallons of wort, lose 1.5 gallons to the boil over the course of 60-75 minutes. Finish with 6.5, transfer 5.5 to fermenter, leave 1 gallon behind that all the trub/hops/break material behind.

I think the 2 key issues for you are:

1.) you have to measure more precisely - you can't dial anything in if you are "eyeballing" it. Simple way is to get a dowel, or metal ruler/rod and stand it up in your boil kettle - pour a gallon in, mark it. another gallon, another mark, etc. until you get 4,5,6,7,8 gallons marked off - maybe even half gallon marks in between. I also use those big jugs for water from store - get a gallon jug and pour a gallon in - mark it. another gallon, another mark, etc. But, find some little tricks to quickly, but accurately, measure the water you are using and the wort you are collecting.

2.) Boil - your software is assuming a bigger boil off because it assumes you are conducting a more vigorous boil than you seem to be. A decent boil is not going to carmelize a bunch of sugars. But in either case, you should either boil harder to match predictions more closely, or you should account for the fact that you are boiling lightly and having less evaporation loss. Personally, I would boil harder.

When it is all said and done though - every system and process is a bit differnent - and it is all about keeping track of your own process and dialing it in so you can repeat it every time out.

 

[MadCnty]

Yeah I was glad I took notes and I already knew about the dowel rod... I plan on getting one done before the next brew day... Like I said I just added 1/2 cup of DME and hit OG spot on, so no worries there... And all the equipment I used was a first also, cause when I was doing extract I was using a 24 Qt pot on an electric stove... Now I am using a Bayou Classic SQ14 with a Keggle for boiling, and this was a first for mashing anything for me (although I have steeped before) and I never had to pour out any wort...

 

[Braufessor]

Like I said I just added 1/2 cup of DME and hit OG spot on, so no worries there... .

that is a good little trick too. Even after hundreds of batches, I still keep DME on hand just in case I come up short on OG as well. Sounds to me like you hit everything pretty well for your first time using the equipment/process.

 

[plumber_bob]

When it is all said and done though - every system and process is a bit differnent - and it is all about keeping track of your own process and dialing it in so you can repeat it every time out.

+1:rockin:

I've brewed 10, 10 gallon batches so far and am still dialing, and tweaking things in.

It just takes time and patience.

As long as I can drink the final product, and I'm improving with each brew,... I couldn't be happier.

pb --- Like the OP stated, it was his first AG brew, he did better than I did on mine, and I still have good beer.

 

[Grossy]

I only do batch sparging in a kettle. With 11.5 gallons of pre-boil wort.

I use various programs to figure out how much strike water to start with, but they all fall around 8 gallons and that will produce about 5-6 gallons of first-runnings wort.

So how much do I still need?

Easy, subtract how much wort you collected from how much wort you need. The grains have already absorbed all the water they are going to absorb, they are already wet.

So if you collect 6 gallons of wort on the first-runnings, then batch in 5.5 gallons of sparge water, you will get 5.5 gallons of wort on your second-runnings.

Now check your pre-boil gravity and adjust your hops or add DME to compensate for any differences.

(Oh, and to help speed things up, as soon as you get your first-wort into the boil kettle, start heating it up. It will save you about 20 minutes on your brew day.)

 

[MadCnty]

Yeah I really have to work on temp control atm too before moving to 10 gal batches... The hot break was bad... In fact it was the first time I thought I was going to have a boil over, so I shut off the heat for about 30 seconds or so to regulate the break... :smack:
Looks like I just need to tweak my water additions and boil method a little bit and all will be good...

 

[MadCnty]

I only do batch sparging in a kettle. With 11.5 gallons of pre-boil wort.

I use various programs to figure out how much strike water to start with, but they all fall around 8 gallons and that will produce about 5-6 gallons of first-runnings wort.

So how much do I still need?

Easy, subtract how much wort you collected from how much wort you need. The grains have already absorbed all the water they are going to absorb, they are already wet.

So if you collect 6 gallons of wort on the first-runnings, then batch in 5.5 gallons of sparge water, you will get 5.5 gallons of wort on your second-runnings.

Yeah I am thinking that I need a total of around 7 gallons of pre boil volume... NOT the 9.95 gallons that BS2 suggested...

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Also note that in BS2 that all of these equipment settings are configurable. Boil-off rate, MT dead space, even transfer losses to trub in the fermenter.

Make sure you set up your equipment profile, and take the time over the next few batches to adjust those numbers as your brews get measured. Every bit off effort you put in now will pay off in better consistency later.