Official Lambic.Info thread

[Os]

congrats Adam and Bill!

 

[Dunt1]

Poor translations, grammatical errors, conjecture, shoddy linksmanship....2/10, won't bang again

 

[drgarage1]

This is a wonderful resource. Thanks very much for your time and effort, guys.

 

[hi im richie]

So awesome, thanks a lot for this!

 

[Etan]

This is cool.

 

[drbenzo1]

 

[SeaWatchman]

Poor translations, grammatical errors, conjecture, shoddy linksmanship....2/10, won't bang again

The guy doing the translations from French to English was drunk like 90% of the time, I'm sure of it.

 

[Forgetfu]

This past weekend, we exchanged a few emails with Akkurat and Cantillon. As a result, we were able to improve the accuracy of these beers:

• Cantillon Cuvee de Florian
• Cantillon Florian Van Roy
• Cantillon Goldackerl Gueuze
• Cantillon Goldackerl Lambic
• Cantillon Gueuze Velomoteur
• Cantillon Saint Lamvinus Unblended
• Drie Fonteinen Akkurat’s Gold Geuze 50/50
• Drie Fonteinen Akkurat’s Oude Geuze 50/50
• Drie Fonteinen Druiven Geuze (still a number of unanswered questions)
• Drie Fonteinen J&J Blauw
• Drie Fonteinen J&J Roze

These conversations continue and more info is coming. We’ll continue to clean up the pages as more information comes in, but check them out!

Additionally, last night, we added a new page for the Amuse Gueuze event. Has anyone here ever attended either of the two times so far or planning on going to the third one in March?
https://www.lambic.info/Amuse_Gueuze

We'll update here and in our facebook group when we find notable additions. A more complete Recent Updates page is also available (https://www.lambic.info/Recent_Updates)

 

[drbenzo1]

http://www.lambic.info/Belle-Vue_Gueuze_Ph._Vandenstock

I shared an old bottle of this with a group a while back. I can send a pic of the bottle. I tried so hard to figure out how old it was but the best I could do is range it from late 70's to early 80's. Here is an insta from the tasting.
I can take a better pic of the bottle if you guys want one... but that beer is so hard to figure out any info on it. It definitely tasted back sweetened we thought. It did not age gracefully. Any thoughts on that one?

 

[SeaWatchman]

http://www.lambic.info/Belle-Vue_Gueuze_Ph._Vandenstock

I shared an old bottle of this with a group a while back. I can send a pic of the bottle. I tried so hard to figure out how old it was but the best I could do is range it from late 70's to early 80's. Here is an insta from the tasting.
I can take a better pic of the bottle if you guys want one... but that beer is so hard to figure out any info on it. It definitely tasted back sweetened we thought. It did not age gracefully. Any thoughts on that one?

The whole Belle-Vue thing is a giant rat's nest that we're still trying to untangle. There were SO many labels from back then with even the slightest of variations. I'm 99% sure that given the history of Belle-Vue, that what you had was definitely sweetened/filtered. Forgetfu had one recently in Belgium and brought back pretty much the same bottle here. Personally, I haven't had one. I drew the line at really old Mort Subite bottles. Dat waffle tho...

 

[eyesonsaison]

This is awesome. Thanks for putting in the work, fellas

 

[drbenzo1]

The whole Belle-Vue thing is a giant rat's nest that we're still trying to untangle. There were SO many labels from back then with even the slightest of variations. I'm 99% sure that given the history of Belle-Vue, that what you had was definitely sweetened/filtered. Forgetfu had one recently in Belgium and brought back pretty much the same bottle here. Personally, I haven't had one. I drew the line at really old Mort Subite bottles. Dat waffle tho...

I have become quite the Liege Belgium waffle aficionado... I even got a new waffle iron! I am rather happy with it. There is lots of good info on this site... https://liegewaffle.wordpress.com/liege-waffle-recipe-liege-gaufre-recette/

 

[SeaWatchman]

I have become quite the Liege Belgium waffle aficionado... I even got a new waffle iron! I am rather happy with it. There is lots of good info on this site... https://liegewaffle.wordpress.com/liege-waffle-recipe-liege-gaufre-recette/

My fiancee orders pearl sugar from Belgium or something just to make these things. They're freaking delicious.

Which reminds me, there will eventually be a new section of the site for cooking with lambics. The amount of cookbooks and recipes out there is staggering.

 

[Odesseiron]

can't wait to try a DHVL inspired bzart grand slamwich

 

[SeaWatchman]

can't wait to try a DHVL inspired bzart grand slamwich

Wait until you see my recipe for Vignerueben

 

[matedog]

Is there going to be an entry for Driesjes Eerste Plasje that I read about in that Ghost Whale Tasting?

 

[Forgetfu]

Is there going to be an entry for Driesjes Eerste Plasje that I read about in that Ghost Whale Tasting?

There won't be, at least not based on current information. As the Lambic.Info project has shown me time and time again, the history and knowledge around vintage lambics is vague, often nothing more than rumor.

There was an update issued to that article (http://allaboutbeer.com/article/ghost-whales/). After it was initially published, a direct source came forward. This is the risk of chasing rare old lambic, but also one of the many benefits to a project like this to help clear up these rumors. It appears that the bottle was a custom labeled 3F gueuze to celebrate the birth of a local lambic fan's twins. There are actually two versions, a gueuze for the boy and a kriek for the girl. But, the point is that it's not a unique lambic based on that. It was misinformation.

I do still have some questions about that though, as 1998 3F Gueuze was cork and caged, but the Driesjes Eerste Plasje was cork and crowned. Also, I've had late 1990's 3F Gueuze multiple times, it this tasted very different. But the updated information was sourced directly and we have no other info to the contrary at the moment to assume it's anything other then a home-labeling.

 

[kscaldef]

There was an update issued to that article (http://allaboutbeer.com/article/ghost-whales/). After it was initially published, a direct source came forward. This is the risk of chasing rare old lambic, but also one of the many benefits to a project like this to help clear up these rumors. It appears that the bottle was a custom labeled 3F gueuze to celebrate the birth of a local lambic fan's twins. There are actually two versions, a gueuze for the boy and a kriek for the girl. But, the point is that it's not a unique lambic based on that. It was misinformation..

What's amusing is that the following paragraph now makes almost no sense.

 

[Forgetfu]

What's amusing is that the following paragraph now makes almost no sense.

Ya, i know. Trust me... that beer, and the feedback that came back, was a bit maddening. It was firm and absolute (and annoyed), but I ended up more confused when I broke it down with what I knew.

For now, we're letting it drop because there's not enough information and listing it as a 3F beer without any supporting information will just lead to arguments and likely isn't accurate.

 

[Forgetfu]

Lambic.Info needs some graphic artist help. Just occasional logo, banner, etc. type stuff

We have an immediate need for a fun event graphic right now. Should be simple.

So far, we've tapped a friend of ours for things like the current facebook banner. But he's busy. If anyone would like to take on a few pictures occasionally, please let @SeaWachman or I know.

 

[sacrelicio]

I know its likely not very important on the beer geek list but just for information completeness Mort Subite framboise and Kriek can be found in the US and not just Canada.

Isn't that a pretty common beer in the US?

 

[LukeAleTime]

"The purpose of this article is to explore the historical, etymological, linguistic, and orthographic differences found among lambic terminology, labeling, and appellation."

 

[sliverx]

Isn't that a pretty common beer in the US?

No idea. I don't see it in Buffalo but grabbed a bottle in Rochester a while back.

 

[BusinessSloth]

There won't be, at least not based on current information. As the Lambic.Info project has shown me time and time again, the history and knowledge around vintage lambics is vague, often nothing more than rumor.

There was an update issued to that article (http://allaboutbeer.com/article/ghost-whales/). After it was initially published, a direct source came forward. This is the risk of chasing rare old lambic, but also one of the many benefits to a project like this to help clear up these rumors. It appears that the bottle was a custom labeled 3F gueuze to celebrate the birth of a local lambic fan's twins. There are actually two versions, a gueuze for the boy and a kriek for the girl. But, the point is that it's not a unique lambic based on that. It was misinformation.

I do still have some questions about that though, as 1998 3F Gueuze was cork and caged, but the Driesjes Eerste Plasje was cork and crowned. Also, I've had late 1990's 3F Gueuze multiple times, it this tasted very different. But the updated information was sourced directly and we have no other info to the contrary at the moment to assume it's anything other then a home-labeling.

I have access to a 98 3F OG. If I can add anything, feel free to give me a shout! Happy to contribute pictures, any info, or send bottles/glasses/other stuff for science!

 

[SeaWatchman]

"The purpose of this article is to explore the historical, etymological, linguistic, and orthographic differences found among lambic terminology, labeling, and appellation."

#nerdalert

 

[LukeAleTime]

#nerdalert

No way, I spend my time talking about beers on an Internet message board because I'm super... whatever the opposite of nerdy is

Also, just read the AWA/ACA on the microorganisms page.

is it agreed that all spontaneous beers outside of Belgium are now "American"? Because we are stuck with American pale ale, even for beers made entirely with NZ or Australian ingredients (this is slowly changing but for the most part they are still referred to as APAs)

Do we have to be stuck with it for another thing? In this case it makes even less sense as brewers do look to the US for pale ale influence but Belgian is still where everyone is looking for sour influence (despite the excellent sours/wild beers out of the states of course).

What I'm saying is, quit hogging the initialisms.

 

[duketheredeemer]

is it agreed that all spontaneous beers outside of Belgium are now "American"? Because we are stuck with American pale ale, even for beers made entirely with NZ or Australian ingredients (this is slowly changing but for the most part they are still referred to as APAs)

Definitely not. The use of the term is intended to be a specific example of non-lambic spontaneous fermentation in beer, and that's what it's called in the literature. Given how broad of a style "American Wild Ales" is, if it can even be called that, I see no reason to give all sour beers that don't fall neatly into one of the other buckets that name. At least with APAs it's a clear style that was developed in the US. With AWAs, at least to me, it feels like it's not a clear style but rather a catch-all for anything that doesn't fit into some other, more specific style.

Do we have to be stuck with it for another thing? In this case it makes even less sense as brewers do look to the US for pale ale influence but Belgian is still where everyone is looking for sour influence (despite the excellent sours/wild beers out of the states of course).

Agreed. I don't think there's any reason why we need to be stuck with this initialism, but I needed a name for the other spontaneously fermented beer that was being compared and contrasted to lambic in that section, and American Coolship Ale is what the literature uses. I kept "American Wild Ale" there as well, as that's what most readers would probably recognize them as, though that name is applied to all kinds of stuff that doesn't spend time in the big shallow pan.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Definitely not. The use of the term is intended to be a specific example of non-lambic spontaneous fermentation in beer, and that's what it's called in the literature. Given how broad of a style "American Wild Ales" is, if it can even be called that, I see no reason to give all sour beers that don't fall neatly into one of the other buckets that name. At least with APAs it's a clear style that was developed in the US. With AWAs, at least to me, it feels like it's not a clear style but rather a catch-all for anything that doesn't fit into some other, more specific style.



Agreed. I don't think there's any reason why we need to be stuck with this initialism, but I needed a name for the other spontaneously fermented beer that was being compared and contrasted to lambic in that section, and American Coolship Ale is what the literature uses. I kept "American Wild Ale" there as well, as that's what most readers would probably recognize them as, though that name is applied to all kinds of stuff that doesn't spend time in the big shallow pan.

It's a tough one because the people driving taxonomy are mostly coming from the US. Here in Aus. people are still happy to call them lambics and sours (even if they are straight brett). So inevitably we end up with "American" as the differentiating term. There are maybe... 3 or 4 breweries here in Australia experimenting with true spontaneous fermentation and they are still in their infancy; so there isn't a great rush to classify them from the wider public. As far as I know, no-one in New Zealand is (am asking around now for my own interest).

Whether or not new classifications or terms rise organically remains to be seen I guess. I just don't want to be stuck saying to people in Australia "it's not a lambic, it's an AWA..." (which admittedly I'm not and shouldn't ever be as I'm probably in just as good of a position to drive the taxonomy here as anyone, other than the brewers slapping "lambic" on anything soured).

Personally, I believe "sour ale" should imply it's from a culture, while "wild ale" implies spontaneous fermentation.

I'm just thinking out loud more than anything though.

 

[SeaWatchman]

No way, I spend my time talking about beers on an Internet message board because I'm super... whatever the opposite of nerdy is

Also, just read the AWA/ACA on the microorganisms page.

is it agreed that all spontaneous beers outside of Belgium are now "American"? Because we are stuck with American pale ale, even for beers made entirely with NZ or Australian ingredients (this is slowly changing but for the most part they are still referred to as APAs)

Do we have to be stuck with it for another thing? In this case it makes even less sense as brewers do look to the US for pale ale influence but Belgian is still where everyone is looking for sour influence (despite the excellent sours/wild beers out of the states of course).

What I'm saying is, quit hogging the initialisms.

Definitely not. The use of the term is intended to be a specific example of non-lambic spontaneous fermentation in beer, and that's what it's called in the literature. Given how broad of a style "American Wild Ales" is, if it can even be called that, I see no reason to give all sour beers that don't fall neatly into one of the other buckets that name. At least with APAs it's a clear style that was developed in the US. With AWAs, at least to me, it feels like it's not a clear style but rather a catch-all for anything that doesn't fit into some other, more specific style.



Agreed. I don't think there's any reason why we need to be stuck with this initialism, but I needed a name for the other spontaneously fermented beer that was being compared and contrasted to lambic in that section, and American Coolship Ale is what the literature uses. I kept "American Wild Ale" there as well, as that's what most readers would probably recognize them as, though that name is applied to all kinds of stuff that doesn't spend time in the big shallow pan.

It's a tough one because the people driving taxonomy are mostly coming from the US. Here in Aus. people are still happy to call them lambics and sours (even if they are straight brett). So inevitably we end up with "American" as the differentiating term. There are maybe... 3 or 4 breweries here in Australia experimenting with true spontaneous fermentation and they are still in their infancy; so there isn't a great rush to classify them from the wider public. As far as I know, no-one in New Zealand is (am asking around now for my own interest).

Whether or not new classifications or terms rise organically remains to be seen I guess. I just don't want to be stuck saying to people in Australia "it's not a lambic, it's an AWA..." (which admittedly I'm not and shouldn't ever be as I'm probably in just as good of a position to drive the taxonomy here as anyone, other than the brewers slapping "lambic" on anything soured).

Personally, I believe "sour ale" should imply it's from a culture, while "wild ale" implies spontaneous fermentation.

I'm just thinking out loud more than anything though.

And that exchange right there is exactly why we made this site. This kind of discussion needs to happen on so many issues concerning lambic. Awesome stuff.

 

[stupac2]

It's a tough one because the people driving taxonomy are mostly coming from the US. Here in Aus. people are still happy to call them lambics and sours (even if they are straight brett). So inevitably we end up with "American" as the differentiating term. There are maybe... 3 or 4 breweries here in Australia experimenting with true spontaneous fermentation and they are still in their infancy; so there isn't a great rush to classify them from the wider public. As far as I know, no-one in New Zealand is (am asking around now for my own interest).

Whether or not new classifications or terms rise organically remains to be seen I guess. I just don't want to be stuck saying to people in Australia "it's not a lambic, it's an AWA..." (which admittedly I'm not and shouldn't ever be as I'm probably in just as good of a position to drive the taxonomy here as anyone, other than the brewers slapping "lambic" on anything soured).

Personally, I believe "sour ale" should imply it's from a culture, while "wild ale" implies spontaneous fermentation.

I'm just thinking out loud more than anything though.

My issue with "sour ale" (as an Untappd moderator, at least) is that it's not obvious that it's a specific category. So naifs will put literally anything that's sour in as that, even if it would be better as some other style (Flemish Red, for instance). I also tend to think that people are way too literal about the country thing, clearly you can make a Belgian Pale Ale (or whatever) in other countries, it's not an actual appellation.

Having a distinction between Wild Ale (a sort of "none of the above" for beers that contain non-sacc yeasts) and Coolship Ale seems fine to me, but I'd really be annoyed if "Sour Ale" became a thing. No one calls Barleywines/Stouts "Sweet Ales".