Observations from my First All-Grain

[ryser2k]

I cut out of work a little early on Friday to go home and brew up my first all-grain batch, a Scottish Heavy ale, from an AHS kit. It's only my second batch in 4 months, that month in Virginia really screwed up my brewing schedule. Anyway, I have to say that it definitely took a heck of a lot longer to do the all-grain brew than it does to do a partial mash. I'm not sure that there was any more work involved, but the time from start to finish was a lot longer. At least I got to watch a movie (The Terminal) between steps instead of standing over a boiling pot the whole time.

I'm looking to streamline the process so I can finish an all-grain batch in about the same amount of time that it took to do partial mash. I don't have all the great equipment, just the bare bones setup like Paul from Cruisenews... so that could be slowing me down a little. Also, I noticed some discrepencies between what my AHS directions said and what Cruisenews said... for example, AHS said to mash for 90 minutes, while Cruise said 60. I did 90 just to be sure, but I'm looking to cut time whereever I can here Is there any real benefit for waiting that extra half-hour?

I used Paul's method for sparging also.. although I was not sure how much I should recirculate the wort before draining it off. I tried to eyeball the clarity and just go off of that, but is there a better measure for how much I should recirculate (specific amount of time or specific quantity of wort)? Also, I didn't boil enough water for the first sparge so I had to do a second one, which added a good half-hour...

From start to finish, I would say the brew took me almost 5 hours. I guess I shouldn't really complain since it was my first shot, but I was starting to get annoyed when it was dark out and I was still waiting for my wort to cool... that immersion chiller I got wasn't as impressive as I thought it would be, although it did save me from having to run out and buy a huge bag of ice.

I'm looking for tips on how to make the process go a little more smoothly. From your experience, is there anything I should have done differently? If you had to pick one piece of equipment that would help me do things better and faster, what would it be?

Oh and one last thing... what the heck do you do with your spent grain? I remember reading that Janx feeds turkeys with his ... but I don't have the land or the turkeys for that. I was going to just dump it all into a garbage bag but there was still a decent amount of water in with it. It was so easy with partial mash, I just dumped the grain bag into the bucket that the LME came in, then sealed it all up!

Ok, I've done enough talking... as usual I've got lots of questions, but I'm sure you guys will have lots of answers... you always do

 

[oregonNate]

Oh and one last thing... what the heck do you do with your spent grain? I remember reading that Janx feeds turkeys with his ... but I don't have the land or the turkeys for that. I was going to just dump it all into a garbage bag but there was still a decent amount of water in with it. It was so easy with partial mash, I just dumped the grain bag into the bucket that the LME came in, then sealed it all up!

Ok, I've done enough talking... as usual I've got lots of questions, but I'm sure you guys will have lots of answers... you always do

Be sure and get rid of it soon! I left a double bagged sack of spent grain in my garage for a few weeks and it turned into the nastiest, foul smelling, stench I have ever smelled.

I just spread mine out in the tall grass near a highway on-ramp. They don't mow it and it isn't near anyone's house...and I do it at night so no one should know/care.

 

[Steve973]

Honestly, I don't think five hours is that bad. Let's say that heating your mash water and mashing is about two hours. Then you sparge for ninety minutes, and then you boil for an hour or and hour and a half. That adds up to about five hours.

 

[ryser2k]

I was under the impression that 3-4 hours was "normal"... but maybe I'm wrong...

 

[user 574]

Be sure and get rid of it soon! I left a double bagged sack of spent grain in my garage for a few weeks and it turned into the nastiest, foul smelling, stench I have ever smelled.

I just spread mine out in the tall grass near a highway on-ramp. They don't mow it and it isn't near anyone's house...and I do it at night so no one should know/care.

I dumped mine directly into a trash bin. 1st two times no big deal, my last wheat batch;50 million flies hopped in there. It was the most rancid smell I've ever experienced. Had to use 1/2g of bleach to try and tame the smell after I hosed the heck out of it. Seal it up tight if putting it in a bag.

 

[user 574]

I was under the impression that 3-4 hours was "normal"... but maybe I'm wrong...

I end up spending about 5-6 hours with all grain. Even longer if I count the time before the pitch.

 

[Turricaine]

For me, the whole process takes 4 hrs but it seems a long time.

I through the spent grains into the soil and churn them into it good with a pitch fork. Makes good compost tee hee

As for the immersion chiller. When you first switch on the cold water tap the water that is comes out the exit pipe is boiling so clearly the heat transfer must be of a high level of efficiency. Just be sure that you do infact connect the hose to the cold water terminal

 

[Rhoobarb]

That's actually not that long. I usualy count on a leisurely 6-7 hours from start to finish - that includes measuring grain, milling it, mashing, etc.... right up until I put the airlock on. I always brew on the weekend, beginning mid-morning, so I'm never in a big hurry.

The best tool I have is my immersion chiller. And I use spent grain to compost with. Letting it sit overnight will make your home smell like you've got a dead horse decomposing in your backyard!

 

[Punn]

I'm clearing 6 hours for our first all grain. gonna do the rolling rock clone recipe! Grains will be here this week and gonna get er done , as it where.

 

[user 574]

My immersion chiller gets me to about 80-85 degrees with the tap water here in summer and that takes about 45-60 minutes. Then I have my next challenge of getting it lower. Last go after the chiller, I got a big bag of ice and set the pot in the ice water. In 1/2 hour I was ready so I'm figuring out how to get this going faster. Will be interested in how my chiller works in winter when the water actually comes out cold...

 

[oregonNate]

You'll probably find this hint other places but I'll go ahead and throw it out there... A pre-chiller seems to do wonders for me. My immersion chiller takes 15ish minutes in 85° weather, but this time I added a pre-chiller.

10 feet of copper coiled into a bucket full of ice, water and salt. The salt is supposed to help it get colder. This took it down to 8 minutes.

You shouldn't have a problem in the winter time, especially if you brew outside. I brewed on a -5F day. This chiller took 5 gallons of 212 wort and took it to 80 is 4 minutes!

 

[Born Brewing Co.]

Then you sparge for ninety minutes, and then you boil for an hour or and hour and a half. That adds up to about five hours.

My sparge typically takes about 30 minutes. I haven't had a bad brew yet, but should I slow my run off and sparge down. 90 minutes...seems like it would just be dripping into the boil kettle.

 

[Lost]

sparge at 1 quart per minute or less.. I find this to be the most tedious part of the process as I am constantly checking the rate and adjustning either the HLT flow rate or the lauter tun flow rate or adding boiling water to the HLT (I'm using the bottling bucket instead of a cooler).

I've done two ag batches now and this last one took me only 6 - 7 hrs from start to finish including prepping before and cleaning after (I do a lot of cleaing while mashing and boiling).

I too am looking to streamline the process but also keep equipment to a minimum (small apartment).. besides if 1 piece of equipment can fill the role of two pieces of equipment that's less wasted space and 1 less thing to prep and clean.

 

[Steve973]

Yeah, i might have overestimated my sparge time, but slower is better.

 

[ryser2k]

I too am looking to streamline the process but also keep equipment to a minimum (small apartment).. besides if 1 piece of equipment can fill the role of two pieces of equipment that's less wasted space and 1 less thing to prep and clean.

That's really what I'm looking for. I enjoy brewing but it's hard to set aside that much time, even on a weekend. I still have questions about how I could shorten my time...

1. Like I said in the first post, I mashed for 90 minutes in the cooler. Is this time dependant on the recipe, or can I safely do a 60 minute mash all the time (as Paul from Cruisenews does)?

2. For sparging, I said I used the Cruisenews method of drawing off a quart or so, then pouring it slowly into the top of the cooler... is there a better/faster/easier method than this, using 1 or 2 extra pieces of equipment?

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

1. Like I said in the first post, I mashed for 90 minutes in the cooler. Is this time dependant on the recipe, or can I safely do a 60 minute mash all the time (as Paul from Cruisenews does)?

2. For sparging, I said I used the Cruisenews method of drawing off a quart or so, then pouring it slowly into the top of the cooler... is there a better/faster/easier method than this, using 1 or 2 extra pieces of equipment?

ryser, a 60 minute mash is sufficient for starch conversion in moderm, modified malts. some even do a 45 min mash. a slow sparge is much better for extraction efficiency. if you sparge too fast, you might leave a lot of tasty sugars behind in the grain bed. i always shoot for a 90 minute sparge. i used to use the cruisenews method until i got my 3 tier keg system going. i would recirculate for 20 minutes at at rate of about .6 to .9 liters/minute. then, i'd start sparging w/ 170 water. i'd just ladle the water from my HLT to my cooler, keeping about 1"-2" of water on top of the grain bed.

the better faster way is to get a more efficient system to brew on. doesn't mean it'll make better beer, just more goodies and gadgets! do cleaning of the things you've already used while you mash/sparge. makes clean-up at the end of the day easier and quicker. check my system in my gallery.......it still takes me every bit of 8 hours on brew day, from sanitizing to clean up. and i love every minute of it!!!

 

[user 574]

Not sure if you can get much less than the 5-6h mark and still do a quality job. I just look at it as "my time" leave me the frick alone. The wife is now calling this hobby my "mistress".

 

[Lost]

Starch conversion (mash time) is also largely dependent on mash thickness. A thicker mash of 1 qt per lb of grain makes for faster conversion with less fermentable sugar (more body). 1.5 is the compromise the Palmer book and my local HBS guy recommend. 2 qt per lb or even 3 qt can draw the mash out past the 90 minute mark but I'm told you get more fermentables that way. Anyhow, while mashing I usually clean or eat a snack, have a beer, etc. since mashing is basically hands free (stir every 20 min). It's sparging that is such a pain because I have to sit there and constantly check it..

As for sparging, I use the bottling bucket and adjust the spigot to match the flow of the mash/lauter tun.. it's always a rough estimate so I check it periodically to adjust the flow as necessary. Also because I'm using the bottling bucket and not another cooler as I guess everyone else is I am constantly having to add hot water to keep sparge temp up.

I guess having more equipment saves time in some ways but then there's more to store and more to clean...

 

[Steve973]

Not to hijack here, but as a quick aside (hopefully)... How many of you stir during your mash? I never have. Am I missing anything? I was always under the impression that after the mash is underway, stir == bad!!!

 

[Rhoobarb]

Not to hijack here, but as a quick aside (hopefully)... How many of you stir during your mash? I never have. Am I missing anything? I was always under the impression that after the mash is underway, stir == bad!!!

Good question - I have wondered the same thing!!! I stir about four times during a 90 minute mash. But the temperature drops about one degree when I do. So, are we better off not stirring at all?

 

[Driftwood]

Good question - I have wondered the same thing!!! I stir about four times during a 90 minute mash. But the temperature drops about one degree when I do. So, are we better off not stirring at all?

Me too, I only swirl around a little bit with the thermometer, as deep as I can reach without burning fingers...

But I usually do a multirest mash and I have noticed that, particularly early in the mash when its still really thick (0.75-1 qt/lb), any hot water I add to the top needs to be stirred around or else the temperature of the grain bed doesn't rise...

But for single step infusion mashing, I doubt it makes much difference...

 

[ryser2k]

I didn't stir the entire time, I just put the lid on the cooler and watched half of a movie

 

[andre the giant]

I brewed last night. 90 minute mash, 45 minute sparge, 90 minute boil, chilling, pitching yeast... I started at 5:30 and ended at 10:30. That was the quickest I've ever brewed an AG batch. Everything went very smooth. I had lots of time (here and there) for other things, like eating dinner, taking the dogs for a walk, cleanup...

I throw most of my spent grains in the drainiage ditch behind our house. It's right on the property line, and one decent rain will wash all the stuff downstream. If you want to kill some flies, hang a fly strip above the grains. yuk!

I've also saved, dried, and stored spent grain for use in bread. It makes a wonderful addition to bread, rolls, etc.

 

[Dude]

That's really what I'm looking for. I enjoy brewing but it's hard to set aside that much time, even on a weekend. I still have questions about how I could shorten my time...

1. Like I said in the first post, I mashed for 90 minutes in the cooler. Is this time dependant on the recipe, or can I safely do a 60 minute mash all the time (as Paul from Cruisenews does)?

FWIW, I always do a 90 minute mash too. I get better efficiency that way.
I also started batch sparging too. It takes half the time of a fly sparge and my efficiency hasn't suffered because of it.
I can usually do an entire brew day in 5 hours. The counterflow chiller helped out with time too. I can imagine once it cools off chilling will go even faster.

 

[ryser2k]

I did my second all-grain batch a few weekends ago, and things went much more smoothly. I watched Notre Dame football between steps, and it was over before I knew it . I think it took me roughly 5 hours as well...

 

[kneemoe]

I also started batch sparging too. It takes half the time of a fly sparge and my efficiency hasn't suffered because of it.

forgive the ignorant question here....what's the difference between the two?

 

[Darth Konvel]

AFAIK, fly sparging is continuous, batch sparging in not.

 

[Stan Gibson]

forgive the ignorant question here....what's the difference between the two?

There is a easy to understand artice; Batch Sparging by Denny Conn, published in BYO and on the web.

 

[Darth Konvel]

There is a easy to understand artice; Batch Sparging by Denny Conn, published in BYO and on the web.

Not sure if this is the article you're thinking of, but it was written by Denny. A good walk-through on the process.

 

[kneemoe]

muchos gracias senors

edit: one more 'stupid' mash/sparge question - everything i've read (havent tried an AG brew session *yet*) says when you begin the sparge you run the first couple pints out until it clears and recirculate that first bit back into the mash/lauder tun .... does this mean that the liquor/wort is actually *clear* or just clear of sediment.... i would think cuz of all the sugars it couldn't possibly be *clear* clear, but then again, that's why i ask

i really can't wait to move to AG from the extract brew i do now, but its more a question of equiptment & ( ) what to do with the spent grain (and yes i do read up on all *those* threads, im just not a baker and dont have a woman at the moment ) I remember living behind a brewpub in Glens Falls and if it weren't for the farm/pig dude that came to pick up the waste that place would stink to this day (sorry for the babbling, its just what i been good at lately )

 

[Dude]

muchos gracias senors

edit: one more 'stupid' mash/sparge question - everything i've read (havent tried an AG brew session *yet*) says when you begin the sparge you run the first couple pints out until it clears and recirculate that first bit back into the mash/lauder tun .... does this mean that the liquor/wort is actually *clear* or just clear of sediment.... i would think cuz of all the sugars it couldn't possibly be *clear* clear, but then again, that's why i ask

Yeah, free of sediment. Its called "vorlaufing".

 

[cap46]

I have been lucky that when I do a batch it happens to be trash day. They don't show up till after lunch so I dump them into a trash bag and let them deal with it.

 

[Brewsmith]

My last brew day took about 5 hours including cleanup, but I'm only doing a partial mash, or better stated, and all-grain recipe with three lbs. of DME subsituted for 5 lbs. of base malt. This was my second batch using my newly built mash/lauter tun. My handmade imersion chiller gets the 3.5 gallons or so down to temp in less than a half hour. My problem with the spent grain wasn't the flies but the ants. Amazing how they find that stuff fast.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

Newbie question: what's an AHS kit?

Regarding the spent grain: if you have a yard, just mix it in the dirt in the garden or around some shrubs. It will make great compost.

 

[ScottT]

Newbie question: what's an AHS kit?

Regarding the spent grain: if you have a yard, just mix it in the dirt in the garden or around some shrubs. It will make great compost.

AHS = "Austin Homebrew Supply"?

 

[ryser2k]

ding ding ding! you win!