Oaking a Bochet Question

[fossilcat]

I spent the weekend boiling honey, enough to make 5 different flavors of 1 gallon bochets. One of them will be a blackberry bochet that I want to oak. So today I was driving around trying to figure out how I was gonna do that and decided that blackberry would taste good with whiskey infused oak cubes. I've got whiskey chips, but I don't care for the taste profile that chips give - its a separate taste, doesn't blend the mead flavors like the cubes do.

I can buy the whiskey oak cubes, the kind from chopped up whiskey barrels. But I already have oak and whiskey, so thought why don't I soak the oak in the whiskey for a couple of weeks and then use the oak cubes? But then thought that I'd loose the initial, and significant, essence of the oak to leaching into the whiskey. Besides, how much whiskey flavor does the oak absorb after soaking for a few weeks? So I figured I'd could throw the whiskey in with the oak.

My big question is: Why not scrap the soaking part and just add a 1/2 cup to a cup of whiskey to the mead along with the oak? Sort of a fortified mead.

Has anybody tried this? Would I get the whiskey taste I want? It doesn't have to be strong, a whisper of a taste would be preferable. Or should I just buy the whiskey infused cubes?

 

[JDWebb]

The whisky will give a brash taste, but if you love bourbon/whisky, then you might enjoy it. The soaked cubes will give you a smooth oak flavor with a hint of whatever whisky you use. Either way you don't want to overtake the blackberry and the dark caramel you get from the honey.

 

[fossilcat]

Thanks JD.
I do like whiskey, neat or on the rocks. But as a primary taste in my mead? not so much. So you think that soaking for a few weeks will "load" the cubes enough to impart a complimentary whiskey flavor without overwhelming the flavors of the mead? 'Cause it looks like that's what I'll be doing. My online search tonight for whiskey cubes didn't really pan out.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I made a whiskey soaked oak cyser that came out really nice. Just taste every few weeks (with cubes), and rack off when you get the flavor you want.

 

[Shine0n]

Soak the cubes, when they fall to the bottom they're loaded and will do the job well.

 

[JDWebb]

Thanks JD.
I do like whiskey, neat or on the rocks. But as a primary taste in my mead? not so much. So you think that soaking for a few weeks will "load" the cubes enough to impart a complimentary whiskey flavor without overwhelming the flavors of the mead? 'Cause it looks like that's what I'll be doing. My online search tonight for whiskey cubes didn't really pan out.

Use French Oak and a good bourbon like Buffalo Trace's Eagle Rare or Evan Williams Single Barrel, Breckenridge or Basil Hayden. Soak them for a good 3-4 weeks, drop a half a vanilla bean in also.

 

[Shine0n]

I know absolutely nothing on French oak other than it doesn't impart the oaky vanilla like American white oak does but that's on spirits not meads.

A few weeks will do the cubes justice imho and try to find a bourbon that isn't sour mashed. Once they sink they are full of bourbon goodness

Oak chips or shredded oak doesn't hold a candle to a domino or the cubes, Look on still dragon I believe they sell domino's and one is good per gallon for longer term storage or 2 for shorter time. From my experience less oak for longer works wonders on anything it goes in, if you over oak it it will taste a little woody and will have to take some serious time to mellow.

I'm sippin on a traditional oak aged for 6 months and it's perfect although the cubes were in a rum for a year. I did However I put them in the secondary right after racking so it had some tumbling during that time. lol

Check your homebrew shop and if they don't have them, ask them to order you some med toast cubes.

When I return home from out of town work Fri I'll look and see what brand I have and post here, if you've found them already let me know or I'll check the forum.

Good luck, I'm about to have another pour just for you!)

 

[fossilcat]

Thanks for the input guys. All VERY helpful.

I have some Lagavulin that I was thinking of using but I'm afraid the "peety" flavor might overwhelm the blackberry. And a bottle of Jameson's Caskmate Stout but maybe I'll check out JD's recommendations before I commit.

I've got med toasted American, French, and Hungarian cubes. And heavy toasted American that I'll be using in a mango capsicumel pretty soon. The Hungarian cubes are my favorite, although I've got to leave them in the mead for about 3x as long as I would the others due to that oak's higher density. Goes extremely well with my Orange Cranberry. And it's because of that density that I think I'll try JD's French recommendation. Not sure how successful I'd be "loading" the Hungarian.

Shine0n - I don't know what a domino is, I'll have to look for it. Thanks for that. My local brew shop only has chips, I think I'm their only customer that makes mead. They have a huge selection of grain and hops. Lots of beer makers!

 

[JDWebb]

I shy away from American oak because to me, it tastes woody, like an oak plank in most everything I've used it in. I prefer French Oak for stronger, darker recipes such as dark beers, dark wines like cabs & merlot's, wildflower honey. Hungarian Oak for lighter recipes like clover, orange blossom, Pinot Noir's. But that's me. That's MY tastes. As far as not using sour mash, I've never had any problems with it in beers or anything else. And good bourbon/whisky should be drank like God & the booleggers intended, straight up, no ice, no water, no nuthin'.

Now, as far as what to soak your wood in when you make that choice, I follow a real simple rule. Garbage in, garbage out. If you have spent the time, money & effort to make a great mead, beer or wine, then why slack off when it comes to the extra's? 4 weeks minimum soak time. Before you dump, take a good smell of the soaked wood. Does it smell like something you want to add to your recipe? Does it have a pleasant aroma? Can you smell the cigar box, the old leather chair, the whiff of cinnamon or dried fruit or vanilla? Next time you pour yourself a bourbon, put an ounce and a half in a propper glass like a Glencairn, swish it around, stick your nose in the glass and with your mouth open, take gentle sniffs, move the glass from side to side, one nostril then the other. Think about what you're smelling. When I want bourbon soaked wood, or even bourbon for that matter in a recipe, I like it to be smooth, not harsh, flavorful, and has a nice aroma. I've had 120 proof bourbons and whiskys that were smooth as glass, yet I've also had 90 weight stuff that burned like turpentine on the way down.

And hey, I'm no guru, some of these other guys have good info too! I only know what tastes good to me and what I like because I make my stuff for me to drink!

 

[Shine0n]

The cubes are good too, a domino is a stave from a whiskey barrel cut to preferred size, and looks like a domino .lol

I toast my own, 400°f for 2 hours will give me a med toast and it really brings out the vanilla I like from oak.

I make them in 3 different sizes
3/4"×3/4"×5" lg
3/4"×1"×5" lg
2"×1"×5" lg

All are toasted the same way as I mentioned previously, some I keep just toast and some I put a heavy char. They work great, one mead I had some I soaked in some high ester Jamaican Rum, that made one excellent mead.

Good luck with your quest

 

[KTbrew]

I've experimented with this a little. French oak may give you a "softer" character which would pare with your fruit a little better. Something that's commonly done in beer brewing is to soak the oak in whiskey and then add the whiskey rather than the oak. You can add to taste and you might be surprised how efficiently the flavors of oak are extracted. You can always add the oak chips/cubes if you don't get the level of flavor you are looking for.

 

[papz]

You could soak the whiskey in the cubes.
Taste it each week until it hits a spot that you like,
then discard the cubes/pour the now oaked whiskey into your mead a little at a time to adjust to taste.

 

[fossilcat]

Tossing the cubes and adding the whiskey was an option when I first thought of flavoring the blackberry with whiskey, and may still be for another brew later on. But the subtle introduction of the oak and whiskey taste over time seemed more in keeping with the character of mead, rather than the quick introduction of an additive. Besides, JD made a compelling argument, one that included "you should buy a real good bottle of whiskey". Sounded like been there done that type of experience.

 

[fossilcat]

So I'm bumping this cause I need some advice on a little problem that's developed with 2 of these Bochets, including the Blackberry that started this thread.

Quick review, I fermented 3.5 gals with 71B and split to individual gallons with the 1/2 used to top off. OG was 1.110, FG is 1.025. I added 3 cups of regular mesquite honey to help the yeast find some fermentable sugars a little easier. In secondary I added blackberry in one, cherry puree (tart) with mahlab in one, and one tsp vanilla extract (so far) in the other. I've got tiny bubbles in the blackberry and the cherry, while the vanilla is fine.

So I'm under 12% alc for a yeast with a 15% tolerance. I think that when I added the fruit in secondary the yeast found something to munch on and what I'm dealing with is a slow, very slow re-fermentation. I took the blackberry out 12 days ago after infusing for 10 days. The cherry's been in for 22 days, I'm racking off the cherries this friday (26 days). The gravity has not changed in 3 weeks.

I've already planned on putting these away to bulk age in their respective carboys until next spring, but I'm not sure I want to do that until I know it's done producing CO2. I like where the taste is right now, I don't want the CO2 in solution to detract. Besides, at this rate, I don't even know if it'll be done by next spring.

Has anyone experience with something like this? Right now the blackberry is in the fridge. I then plan to add k-meta then rack the next day, the goal being to precipitate the remaining yeast. Might take a couple of racks, but might not work at all, I'm not sure. And I'm loosing mead each time I rack too. Is there another process? Pasteurize maybe?

 

[JDWebb]

My experience with 71b is, it should fall 100 to 110 points. Do not go by the stated tolerance levels. Your hydrometer is the best tool to use to measure gravity. No need to pasteurized, one of the pitfalls of racking is you lose a little volume. I usually do 5 1/2 to 6 gallon batches so I have a bit to top up with if I need it.

 

[fossilcat]

Hi JD
Yes, I agree. Given the right conditions, 71B frequently outperforms it's stated alcohol tolerance level. I currently have 71B at 16% in a cranberry orange and another at 18% in a mango chili pepper.

Yeah, pasteurizing makes me nervous. I don't feel right about heating my nearly finished mead to 160. It's been in the fridge for 2 days. I'll add some k-meta to further stun those yeasties and keep checking for sediment.

 

[papz]

cold crash + rack / pasteurize / run it through a filtration system with a 1 micron filter (you lose volume this way too) / wait longer until the yeast are done.......

Those are pretty much your options....
You decide what you think is best for you.
Cheers.