nut brown ale suggestions

[buzbey]

The recipe looks like this so far

8# maris otter malt
1# victory malt
3/4# special b
1/2# carapils
1/2# wheat
1/2#crystal 80
1/4# chocolate malt
1/4# crystal 40

2oz fuggels 60m
1oz kent goldings 30m

Yeast:wlp011

Og 1.055-1.062 srm 26.3 ibu 36.5

BU:GU .58-.65

I'm shooting for a really malty sweet nut brown

Caramel, toffee, nutty, biscuity

Suggestions appreciated!

 

[homebrewdad]

I think that you may end up with a little more bitterness than you might expect out of a "really malty sweet" brown. Maybe cut back a bit on the bittering hops.

 

[buzbey]

I have a pretty low BU:GU ratio. I want it sweet but still balanced out. And American brown ale has a BU:GU ratio of .80 to 1. So I don't think I'm going to heavy on hops at all. The only thing I think might be off is the special b amount having never used it. And I'm thinking I probably don't need the carapils?

 

[PJoyce85]

Just curious. Are you aiming for a higher ABV Nut Brown?

 

[buzbey]

1.055 to 1.062. So no, just about normal. I've only been getting 70 to 80 percent efficiency

 

[PJoyce85]

Are you trying to stick to BJCP guidelines or just brewing to try something new?

 

[buzbey]

Just brewing for my own drinking pleasure. Its is in the ranges for a brown ale. But I don't know if a nut brown ale has different specifications.

 

[buzbey]

1.062 is .002 over

 

[dkm11b]

Just my 2 cents, but I would simplify the grain bill, the C40 and C80 can be replaced by some C60, and I would do about 1/2 lb of that, the carapils isn't needed since the brown ale will have enough unfermentables to contribute to mouth feel. The special b IMO isn't really something I would use in a brown ale, wheat malt could stay, I think it wouldn't take away from the taste, and a lb of victory is a bit much, its pretty potent. Here would be my take on a nut brown ale.
8# MO
.75# C60
.5# chocolate malt
.25# victory

mash a little higher (153-154) and you will get less fermentables, and a higher FG.

the hops are fine since they are low AA hops, and that is a classic combo. Try using British grain varieties, so maybe dark crystal malt instead of C60, and a British chocolate malt.

 

[TahoeRy]

I agree that you need to backdown that bitterness a bit. I'd shoot for around 28-30 if you want a tad bit of hops to balance those malts. You might get a bit to much hop flavor where your at if you want those malts to shine. I like the fuggles / goldings combo but 2oz at 60min is not the way do it.

 

[PJoyce85]

Ah ok. Sometimes it's tough to give remarks on a recipe when you don't know what it's going to be used for.

I would try to simplify the grain bill a little. You could ditch the victory, carapils and wheat malt. If you want more body and some sweetness, you could try mashing a little higher around 154.

 

[dkm11b]

Oh, and move your 30 minute addition down to 10 minutes, EKG's are delicious.

 

[buzbey]

I agree that you need to backdown that bitterness a bit. I'd shoot for around 28-30 if you want a tad bit of hops to balance those malts. You might get a bit to much hop flavor where your at if you want those malts to shine. I like the fuggles / goldings combo but 2oz at 60min is not the way do it.

I have 36 ibus, I doubt anyone will be able to tell the difference between 30 ibus and 36 ibus
And as far as hop flavor I won't be getting any from 2oz at 60m. Ill get a little bit from the 30m addition. But not much

 

[buzbey]

I've never used victory malt either. But being a roasted malt I can see how a pound could be to much. Ill drop that down to a half pound. I do love kent golding but I'm shooting for a malty beer and wanna get away from the hop taste and aroma in this one, as that's how most my brews turn out. Mashing a little high will give me more body, but not anymore sweetness.

 

[dkm11b]

I definitely see what your desired outcome is, but ever since I made a Christmas ale with about 8 different grains, I became weary of using to many different malts. Good luck with your brew BTW.

 

[TahoeRy]

I differently hear you that I'm not recommending a big hop change but you might notice a bit of a difference between 30 & 40 ibu's when you want a malt taste and the proposed recipe is really close to 40. I only recommended 28-30 ibu's because I just brewed a nut brown and my ibu's were at 30 with a real complex grain bill and its perfect. I couldn't imagine it with any more ibu's. it's all personal preference but its just my advice.

 

[homebrewdad]

I have 36 ibus, I doubt anyone will be able to tell the difference between 30 ibus and 36 ibus
And as far as hop flavor I won't be getting any from 2oz at 60m. Ill get a little bit from the 30m addition. But not much

It's your beer. Do whatever you like.

But why ask for input for a malty/sweet beer, then be so dismissive over suggestions that you're going to get more bitterness than one would expect for a sweet brown?

Perhaps you should have framed the question as "do you think I should edit my grain bill?".

 

[buzbey]

Your right I should have. I dismissed this suggestion because lowering the ibus from 36 to 30 wouldn't make a difference. I appreciate the suggestions and will be making a few small changes.

 

[homebrewdad]

Your right I should have. I dismissed this suggestion because lowering the ibus from 36 to 30 wouldn't make a difference. I appreciate the suggestions and will be making a few small changes.

Not to nitpick, just to discuss - you probably wouldn't notice losing 6 IBUs out of a 70 IBU IPA. 6 IBUs off of a 36 IBU brown is going to be noticeable.

Just look at the math - 6 IBUs is almost 20% of that total. That's enough to be detectible to most palates.

If the goal is to make a balanced brown, hang out at 3 ounces of hops. If the goal is to make a malty/sweet brown, you might reconsider tuning them down a bit.

 

[TahoeRy]

Everybody's tastes are different with beer so just take what we all are saying as just our personal opinions. The only reason your post interested me is that I just brewed a nut-brown and have been drinking it lately. I used 2oz of Fuggles and 1 oz of Goldings, just as you are suggesting. My Fuggles where 6.3%AA and my Goldings were 6.6%. I added 1oz of Fuggles at 60 minutes which imparted about 15% to my overall IBU's. You are suggesting 2 oz of Fuggles at 60 minutes, which is about 31% IBU's (assuming your AA is the same). Honestly, for most peoples taste, thats pretty bitter for a Nut Brown. I would normally bitter an IPA to around that as I usually shoot for around a 50 / 50 split between my flavor and bitterness ratio in an IPA, with an overall IBU of around 60 - 70. Thats was my only concern for you. I am a self-admitted hop-head so I like really hoppy beers and I hope you are the same way when you state that you are going to add about 31 IBU's in just bitterness to a malt forward beer. I should of clarified it a bit better but please just take it as you want. Good luck and happy brewing!

 

[homebrewdad]

Everybody's tastes are different with beer so just take what we all are saying as just our personal opinions. The only reason your post interested me is that I just brewed a nut-brown and have been drinking it lately. I used 2oz of Fuggles and 1 oz of Goldings, just as you are suggesting. My Fuggles where 6.3%AA and my Goldings were 6.6%. I added 1oz of Fuggles at 60 minutes which imparted about 15% to my overall IBU's. You are suggesting 2 oz of Fuggles at 60 minutes, which is about 31% IBU's (assuming your AA is the same). Honestly, for most peoples taste, thats pretty bitter for a Nut Brown. I would normally bitter an IPA to around that as I usually shoot for around a 50 / 50 split between my flavor and bitterness ratio in an IPA, with an overall IBU of around 60 - 70. Thats was my only concern for you. I am a self-admitted hop-head so I like really hoppy beers and I hope you are the same way when you state that you are going to add about 31 IBU's in just bitterness to a malt forward beer. I should of clarified it a bit better but please just take it as you want. Good luck and happy brewing!

You and I are on the same page. I don't mean to disparage the OP at all; if he likes hoppier beers, more power to him!

That being said, I agree with you on your take on how the hops are going to play, here.

 

[buzbey]

"Studies have shown that the detection threshold for bitterness is about 5 IBU. And that is for beers in the 10 to 15 IBU range." Ray daniels- designing great beers. Also " use fuggle and golding hops for all additions in milds and English brown ales and target a BU:GU ratio of 0.50 to 0.70 you may wish to include a 0.5 ounce aroma hop addition for these styles." Ray daniels- designing great beers.

 

[homebrewdad]

"Studies have shown that the detection threshold for bitterness is about 5 IBU. And that is for beers in the 10 to 15 IBU range." Ray daniels- designing great beers. Also " use fuggle and golding hops for all additions in milds and English brown ales and target a BU:GU ratio of 0.50 to 0.70 you may wish to include a 0.5 ounce aroma hop addition for these styles." Ray daniels- designing great beers.

Okay, then. You've made it clear that your mind is made up, which is cool. Your beer. I have nothing left to contribute.

 

[buzbey]

Well if anyone is still interested I did drop the hops down to one ounce of fuggels at 60 and goldings at 30 because of the AAU's of the hops I got. So I guess technically you guys where right about to many ounces?

 

[forstmeister]

Well if anyone is still interested I did drop the hops down to one ounce of fuggels at 60 and goldings at 30 because of the AAU's of the hops I got. So I guess technicality you guys where right about to many ounces?

May I suggest a slice of humble pie with your delicious brown ale? Kidding, but only halfway really. I brewed a brown ale a few weeks ago with all British ingredients, including 1 oz of buttering Fuggles and 0.5 additions at the end. It makes for a delicious malty beer when mashed at about 152-154.