Nothing I can do will bring water to boil on my stove... advice?

[DeafSmith]

Just a bit more information for the group: the pot I bought is a 32 QT 4mm NSF Aluminum Black Label 1100 Alloy commercial stock pot by Johnson Rose (Product 6542 -- I would link it directly but they go out of their way to prevent that for some reason.) This may sound silly, but is there a chance the pot is "defective?" Can you really have a "defective" aluminum pot?

I don't see how this could be a "defective" pot, but maybe the fact that it's aluminum is part of the problem. When I started brewing with extract, I used a 5 gallon stainless steel pot with the "tri-clad" bottom (like the MegaPot). I could boil 4 gallons with the pot on a single 2500 watt coil - due to the stove configuration I couldn't straddle two coils. It took a long time to get to boil, and it wasn't a vigorous boil, maybe just barely boiling, but it was boiling even with the lid off. Maybe the difference is due to the fact that stainless steel doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum? If that is the case, then some good insulation might work for you - the trick is to find something that won't melt or catch fire.

One thing I did notice was that after running that one coil at max for a couple of hours, the entire top of my stove got awfully hot, so maybe you would be better off in the long run with a heat stick to help your stove - I bet even a 1500 watt heat stick added to the stove power would do the job.

EDIT: The coil I was using was 2500 watt, not 1400.

 

[MZRIS]

man, if you cant boil water, how do you boil eggs, or make macaroni, spaghetti, oatmeal, rice, soup, sauces... god forbid you guys get a boil water notice for water contaminates. never heard of such a thing?

 

[MuchoGusto]

The plan is to do extract. The frustration is that I can get 2 gallons of water to a boil no problem in my 2.25 gallon stock pot on a 2100w burner, but can't get a real boil with 3 gallons in my 32qt pot with 3 gallons. I have yet to try 2.5 gallons, as the kit that came from my LHBS warns quite strictly to use a "minimum of 3 gallons" and while I know these things are actually flexible, I was hoping to stick as close to someone else's experience as possible in the beginning.

It's the pot... it's too BIG. All that heat is conducted into aluminum with little left for the water. A 20 quart pot is plenty big enough.

SIZE MATTERS... in this case.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I would not I mean not do this.

do not, repeat do not use a propane burner indoors. carbon monoxide poisoning is a possibility. not to mention fire hazard and propane bottles are not suppose to be kept indoors. your health is worth more than a batch of beer.

How about we provide useful information on proper use of equipment rather than useless rhetorical dismissals. Hmm?

We are but one a few nations that do not employ the use of small volume propane for cooking appliances indoors. The difference is in understanding what you are doing. Trailer homes and RV use propane burners indoors, teh difference being adequate ventilation provided.

Jurisdictional fire codes are the ONLY validated reasoning behind the use of propane appliances indoors. Stupidity is another. But lets at least give people the benifit of doubt.

 

[MuchoGusto]

Just a bit more information for the group: the pot I bought is a 32 QT 4mm NSF Aluminum Black Label 1100 Alloy commercial stock pot by Johnson Rose (Product 6542 -- I would link it directly but they go out of their way to prevent that for some reason.) This may sound silly, but is there a chance the pot is "defective?" Can you really have a "defective" aluminum pot?

I looked up the pot you bought. It's 13 3/4 in diameter and 12 7/16 deep. Does that sound right? Here's your problem. With that size pot 3 gallons takes up appx. 4.5 inches. There almost 7 inches of Al pot that's not in contact with the water. That is your problem and here's why.

Aluminum has a specific heat of 0.902. Water has a specific heat of 4.179. In simple terms it takes less heat .902 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of water 1 degree C. It take 4 times the energy in joules to heat 1 gm of water 1 degree C. Add to all that the specific heat of air at 1.01 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of air 1 degree C and you have a MAJOR problem using a big aluminum pot.

Heat transfers the easiest way possible. What you have in that big old pot is a giant heat sink. The aluminum is suckin' up too much heat, transferring it into the air with what small amount left over going into the water.

The specific heat of a steel pot is half of aluminum so more heat transfers to the water.

Get a smaller pot. Aluminum is great in that it evenly distributes the heat and less likely to scorch your wort. I have aluminum and steel. I prefer the aluminum but it has to be the right size for the job.

 

[troytrubble]

I looked up the pot you bought. It's 13 3/4 in diameter and 12 7/16 deep. Does that sound right? Here's your problem. With that size pot 3 gallons takes up appx. 4.5 inches. There almost 7 inches of Al pot that's not in contact with the water. That is your problem and here's why.

Aluminum has a specific heat of 0.902. Water has a specific heat of 4.179. In simple terms it takes less heat .902 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of water 1 degree C. It take 4 times the energy in joules to heat 1 gm of water 1 degree C. Add to all that the specific heat of air at 1.01 joules of heat to raise 1 gm of air 1 degree C and you have a MAJOR problem using a big aluminum pot.

Heat transfers the easiest way possible. What you have in that big old pot is a giant heat sink. The aluminum is suckin' up too much heat, transferring it into the air with what small amount left over going into the water.

The specific heat of a steel pot is half of aluminum so more heat transfers to the water.

Get a smaller pot. Aluminum is great in that it evenly distributes the heat and less likely to scorch your wort. I have aluminum and steel. I prefer the aluminum but it has to be the right size for the job.

This was very helpful thank you8

 

[foolsbrew]

There isn't anything important going on in the wort when it's boiling that isn't already happening when it's near boil.
Brew a smaller batch with a rolling boil, and one at 195F with slightly longer duration. Compare the two after fermentation. I ran this test and honestly I don't think there is any real difference in the taste. There is a exbeeriment but the test compares them with the same duration, which as we all know isn't a valid comparison. http://brulosophy.com/2018/07/02/the-no-boil-effect-exbeeriment-results/
The general consensus for when the DMS breakdown occurs is 180F. DMS also vaporizes at temperatures far below the boiling temperature.
A rolling boil is obviously preferred, but I'd just go for a longer near-boil instead of complicating things. Anything you add is just extra spending, stuff to clean, stuff to store.

 

[Jtvann]

4 score and 7 yards ago this month was an old thread born.

 

[foolsbrew]

4 score and 7 yards ago this month was an old thread born.

I didn't know sorry, just saw it as the top thread of this forum

 

[kh54s10]

Necro thread, but Aluminum is not the problem. I don't know the physics but I boil 4 gallons of wort in my 5 gallon aluminum pot just as easily or maybe even more easily than my 5 gallon stainless steel pot. One difference is the aluminum pot is flat on the bottom, the stainless is raised in the center with a 3 inch rim around the outside. Without contact I thought I would have a problem but it will boil easily also.