New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Ok but this isnt the issue that Bailey is having. I use whirlfloc and my hoppy beers never clear.

But those phenomena can cause the issues that @bailey mountain brewer is having. if you move a keg and resuspend protiens and other trub that has already flocced out, it can cause more clearing by attracting even more protein/polyphenols when they floc out again.

 

[NJGeorge]

But those phenomena can cause the issues that @bailey mountain brewer is having. if you move a keg and resuspend protiens and other trub that has already flocced out, it can cause more clearing by attracting even more protein/polyphenols when they floc out again.

Hmm interesting. Ive never experienced or heard of this before. Could be possible but I never had this happen after moving kegs around. I think he needs to use more dry hops and some high protein two row and more malted oats/wheat. Also if using a conical, rouse the dry hops with c02 from the bottom every few hours for a day. Ive had clear beer pre-dry hop turn to murk after final cold crash.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Are people spunding with this style? before or after dryhopping? I was playing around with this idea but not sure how to go about it. If before dryhopping wont it create foam when hops are added, but wont it also help reduce oxidation since there would be dissolved co2 in the beer that would then scrub oxygen if some was introduced during dryhop? Sorry throwing a lot of questions around.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Hmm interesting. Ive never experienced or heard of this before. Could be possible but I never had this happen after moving kegs around. I think he needs to use more dry hops and some high protein two row and more malted oats/wheat. Also if using a conical, rouse the dry hops with c02 from the bottom every few hours for a day. Ive had clear beer pre-dry hop turn to murk after final cold crash.

I don't rouse hops in my conicals... I probably should yes. I did use golden promise for part of this batch, not sure what the protein content is on that. Also what percentage malted oats would I benefit from?

 

[NJGeorge]

I don't rouse hops in my conicals... I probably should yes. I did use golden promise for part of this batch, not sure what the protein content is on that. Also what percentage malted oats would I benefit from?

I haven't been using malted oats recently but some people go as high as 40-50% I believe. Pale wheat is also good.

 

[The M]

Anyone successfully used Talus? I think I read a post from secretlevel that he had used it with keg hops? Any suggestions which hops would pair well with Talus? I'm not a big fan of Sabro or to be precise the coconut flavor it brings to the table. So I'm a bit unsure how I could avoid that overpowering coconut flavor which Talus might produce. Going to use Cosmic Punch with mash hops and continue experimenting with spelt with this one

 

[palmtrees]

Anyone successfully used Talus? I think I read a post from secretlevel that he had used it with keg hops? Any suggestions which hops would pair well with Talus? I'm not a big fan of Sabro or to be precise the coconut flavor it brings to the table. So I'm a bit unsure how I could avoid that overpowering coconut flavor which Talus might produce. Going to use Cosmic Punch with mash hops and continue experimenting with spelt with this one

I've used Cosmic Punch with a Citra/Idaho 7/Talus/Wai-iti combo before. I really enjoyed it. Didn't get any coconut. It was all pineapple and passion fruit.

 

[aaronm13]

Slightly off topic but I brewed a clone of this Cellermaker beer a few weeks ago and its turned out so good.

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-cellarmaker-kilning-me-softly-ipa/
The dry hop combination is one of the best I've tried and will definitely be doing a hazy version of this when I get more Mosaic. Even with US-05 its probably hazier than my DIPA brewed with London Fog that's about 3 weeks younger.

White Labs have definitely changed this strain as its dropping clear a lot quicker than before and they've also changed the attenuation to 75-82% from 65-70%. Personally it's not a patch on what it used to be. WOn't be brewing with it again. Got Omega DIPA strain for my next brews.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Slightly off topic but I brewed a clone of this Cellermaker beer a few weeks ago and its turned out so good.

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-cellarmaker-kilning-me-softly-ipa/
The dry hop combination is one of the best I've tried and will definitely be doing a hazy version of this when I get more Mosaic. Even with US-05 its probably hazier than my DIPA brewed with London Fog that's about 3 weeks younger.

White Labs have definitely changed this strain as its dropping clear a lot quicker than before and they've also changed the attenuation to 75-82% from 65-70%. Personally it's not a patch on what it used to be. WOn't be brewing with it again. Got Omega DIPA strain for my next brews.

What temp did you dry hop at? And how long?

 

[aaronm13]

What temp did you dry hop at? And how long?

Dry hopped cool, was around 55 I think. Didn't do the double dry hop like the recipe, just one big charge. Was at 55 for around 48 hours then crashed for 24 hours before transferring to the dry hop keg. The Mosaic I used was Lupomax and Citra Lupomax for dry hop.

 

[secretlevel]

Anyone successfully used Talus? I think I read a post from secretlevel that he had used it with keg hops? Any suggestions which hops would pair well with Talus? I'm not a big fan of Sabro or to be precise the coconut flavor it brings to the table. So I'm a bit unsure how I could avoid that overpowering coconut flavor which Talus might produce. Going to use Cosmic Punch with mash hops and continue experimenting with spelt with this one

I just got more Talus so I'm planning to brew with it in the coming months, but until then I really dug this beer that was brewed with Talus, Nectaron and Simcoe. Darwin reviewed it:

I personally didn't get any cedar from Talus after smelling it and brewing with it in past, but it's never been the prevalent hop in those beers. Nonetheless, I really don't like Sabro for those cedar qualities and I've really dug Talus so far if that says anything

Edit: there's also a Hop Chronicle on it with some tasting details. The Hop Chronicles | Talus (2019)

 

[HopsAreGood]

I highly recommend listening to Brandon Capps from New Image on this pod, he shares how he uses hop extracts. Podcast Episode 202: Brandon Capps of New Image Brews Better IPAs Through Chemistry

One of the interesting things that he mentions that they only dry hop for 24 hours because the vegetal matter absorbs some of the volatile hop compounds if left on that matter for a longer period of time. Not having much matter in the dry hop should help remedy this.

I know this post is going back in time a bit, but I’m about to buy a 60 ml syringe of the citra co2 extract from mass hops and use the whole thing in the dry hop. There’s a post on their website about how to use it in the dry hop…they suggest mixing with approximately equal parts high proof alcohol to loosen it up and help it dissolve.

https://masshops.com/blogs/q-a/dry-hopping
I reached out to the company and they told me it should work just as described in the link.

So I’m going to give it a try. Brew up a pretty standard grain bill, use a pretty clean yeast, and then crush a 100% post fermentation dryhop with the extract. 60ml is approximately 1 pound of hops.

 

[Dgallo]

I know this post is going back in time a bit, but I’m about to buy a 60 ml syringe of the citra co2 extract from mass hops and use the whole thing in the dry hop. There’s a post on their website about how to use it in the dry hop…they suggest mixing with approximately equal parts high proof alcohol to loosen it up and help it dissolve.

https://masshops.com/blogs/q-a/dry-hopping
I reached out to the company and they told me it should work just as described in the link.

So I’m going to give it a try. Brew up a pretty standard grain bill, use a pretty clean yeast, and then crush a 100% post fermentation dryhop with the extract. 60ml is approximately 1 pound of hops.

What are you using hotside? Interested to see your results. I recently had a beer that used 100% spectrum as the dryhop. It was extremely fruity but it was missing “hop” character of that makes sense.

Be cool to see if this provides full profile flavor

 

[HopsAreGood]

What are you using hotside? Interested to see your results. I recently had a beer that used 100% spectrum as the dryhop. It was extremely fruity but it was missing “hop” character of that makes sense.

Be cool to see if this provides full profile flavor

Honestly hadn’t really thought about it. It’s mostly about experimenting with the extract in the dry hop. But I’ll prob do something like 2 oz citra at 10, 4oz citra wp. Just keep it all citra to eliminate contributions from other hops.

I’m well aware this may fail miserably, but I’m willing to give it a try. These types of experiments keep me interested in brewing.

I’ll prob try dosing a bud light or something with a similar ratio to what I’ll be doing in a 5 gallon batch just to make sure it’s feasible. Maybe 1.5 ml extract and 1.5 ml ever clear in 16oz.

 

[Dgallo]

Honestly hadn’t really thought about it. It’s mostly about experimenting with the extract in the dry hop. But I’ll prob do something like 2 oz citra at 10, 4oz citra wp. Just keep it all citra to eliminate contributions from other hops.

I’m well aware this may fail miserably, but I’m willing to give it a try. These types of experiments keep me interested in brewing.

I’ll prob try dosing a bud light or something with a similar ratio to what I’ll be doing in a 5 gallon batch just to make sure it’s feasible. Maybe 1.5 ml extract and 1.5 ml ever clear in 16oz.

I certainly find it interesting, so please keep me posted

 

[aaronm13]

What are you using hotside? Interested to see your results. I recently had a beer that used 100% spectrum as the dryhop. It was extremely fruity but it was missing “hop” character of that makes sense.

Be cool to see if this provides full profile flavor

I've seen reports on Spectrum say you need to mix your dry hop with 50% Spectrum and 50% pellets as the Spectrum is too one dimensional on it's own.

 

[Dgallo]

I've seen reports on Spectrum say you need to mix your dry hop with 50% Spectrum and 50% pellets as the Spectrum is too one dimensional on it's own.

I would think that’s pretty spot on. There is certainly a distinct flavor I can pick up from it now, especially if it’s Citra spectrum and I can tell if a brewery is using it.

 

[aaronm13]

I would think that’s pretty spot on. There is certainly a distinct flavor I can pick up from it now, especially if it’s Citra spectrum and I can if a brewery is using it.

I'm tempted to try it but the price is a bit off putting. I can get a 50ml vial for the equivalent of around $40.

 

[Andre3000]

Have you keg-dryhoppers noticed any degradation from leaving the hops in the keg while having co2 from the entirety of fermentation purge through them?

I've got a similar situation where I can be lazy and leave the DH charge in a dry hop chamber and let the ferm co2 purge them, at which point there would certainly be no more air entrained in them by the time primary and soft crash were done.

Or I can try to load the chamber after primary and soft crash is done and attempt to purge the hop chamber with pressurized co2. I think you'd need several cycles at pressure spaced out time-wise to make sure you're getting all the air out.

I'm worried about the first option with the co2 "stripping" the aromatic potential of them over time. Is there any merit to this worry?

 

[Fergal]

I just got more Talus so I'm planning to brew with it in the coming months, but until then I really dug this beer that was brewed with Talus, Nectaron and Simcoe. Darwin reviewed it:

I personally didn't get any cedar from Talus after smelling it and brewing with it in past, but it's never been the prevalent hop in those beers. Nonetheless, I really don't like Sabro for those cedar qualities and I've really dug Talus so far if that says anything

Edit: there's also a Hop Chronicle on it with some tasting details. The Hop Chronicles | Talus (2019)

I'm a big fan of Talus. Has all the punch of Sabro without the coconut weirdness to my palette. I've paired it with centennial in a standard US-05 pale ale and also with Nectaron & Idaho 7 in a hazy. Both turned out really well but it does dominate.

 

[The M]

I personally didn't get any cedar from Talus after smelling it and brewing with it in past, but it's never been the prevalent hop in those beers. Nonetheless, I really don't like Sabro for those cedar qualities and I've really dug Talus so far if that says anything

Edit: there's also a Hop Chronicle on it with some tasting details. The Hop Chronicles | Talus (2019)

Thx for your reply. Yeah, I'm not a fan of those cedar qualities either which Sabro produces. Also I hate the overpowering coconut thing which comes with Sabro if not being careful. And that's a great link of Hop Chronicle. Thank you

My plan:

2oz Simcoe as mash hop

1oz Citra @ 10min of boil

Whirlpool

1:0.5:0.5 Talus / Citra / Galaxy

Dry hop

1:0.5:0.5

Talus / Citra Lupomax / Galaxy

Don't know what to expect with this one. I hope I can pull some tropical fruit, citrus or grapefruit and I wouldn't mind if I got some pine aromas/taste out of this one. Any thoughts of hop combo?

 

[The M]

I'm a big fan of Talus. Has all the punch of Sabro without the coconut weirdness to my palette. I've paired it with centennial in a standard US-05 pale ale and also with Nectaron & Idaho 7 in a hazy. Both turned out really well but it does dominate.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to get that coconut thing to my brew. I7 & Talus sounds interesting. Might try that combo as well

 

[Dgallo]

Thx for your reply. Yeah, I'm not a fan of those cedar qualities either which Sabro produces. Also I hate the overpowering coconut thing which comes with Sabro if not being careful. And that's a great link of Hop Chronicle. Thank you

My plan:

2oz Simcoe as mash hop

1oz Citra @ 10min of boil

Whirlpool

1:0.5:0.5 Talus / Citra / Galaxy

Dry hop

1:0.5:0.5

Talus / Citra Lupomax / Galaxy

Don't know what to expect with this one. I hope I can pull some tropical fruit, citrus or grapefruit and I wouldn't mind if I got some pine aromas/taste out of this one. Any thoughts of hop combo?

Is there a reason your mash hoping with sabro? From my understanding for cosmic punch you are looking to utilize cascade, Citra, saaz and or calypso for mash hopping because they contain the most precursor needed for the mash enzymes to make the 3mh Thiol available. Then the yeast frees it up to the 3s4mp Thiol. I’ve only read a little bit on it, so I could be ignorant to other thiols it’s able to free up or other hops high in the precursors

 

[anteater8]

Update on my Vanilla Milkshake IPA (Citra, El Dorado, Vic Secret).

Aroma and flavor are passion fruit, orange creamsicle, pineapple and watermelon. The vanilla is very present but blends great with the fruity hops. I actually don't think fruit is necessary for this style, especially considering the cost and volume loss. The mouthfeel is like drinking a thick fluffy cloud, its so creamy but does not feel heavy at all. I am a huge sucker for this style & recipe.

Other thoughts: I used 10 oz dry hops (2 oz were lupomax), and this tastes hoppier than my typical 6-8 oz, maybe by 10 to 20%. In the past I've been reluctant to use certain hops (Galaxy, Vic Secret, Idaho 7) in large quantities because of endless hop burn and long conditioning times, but this beer has 4 oz of Vic Secret and its ready to drink after 2 weeks in the keg. After two batches, I prefer 15 IBU's over 19.

12 lb 2 row
3 lb Malted oats
3 lb Flaked oats
0.5 Wheat
1 lb Lactose

1 oz CTZ 15 min (19 IBU)
2 oz Citra whirlpool (185 for 30)
2 oz El Dorado whirlpool (185 for 30)
2 oz Vic Secret whirlpool (185 for 30)
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop #1
2 oz Citra dry hop #1
2 oz El Dorado dry hop #2
2 oz Vic Secret dry hop #2
2 oz Citra dry hop #2

1 vanilla bean secondary

Imperial Juice gen 1

50:150 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.075
F.G. = 1.023
ABV = 6.8%

 

[secretlevel]

My Chinook IPA has been drinking nicely, the bitterness is present, but smooth and not overbearing. I think the whirlpool pH drop to 4.8 has had a really positive impact on depth of flavors and aroma though, I'll definitely be doing that again.

Aroma: apricot, orange julius.
Flavor: dank pine, bitter orange rind and sweet navel oranges.

The Chinook has a pleasant hot-side impact, but I don't know if I'm happy with it in the dry hop. The character just isn't as explosive as the banger hops that I'd usually use.

75% 2-row
15% Flaked Oats
10% White Wheat

Mash
1oz Cascade
1oz Saaz

Boil
1oz Chinook @ 15 min
1oz Simcoe @ 10 min

Drop pH down to 4.8,
Whirlpool @ 170F
3oz Chinook
2oz Simcoe

Dry Hop
4oz Chinook
4oz Simcoe
2oz Citra

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.018
Yeast: Cosmic punch

 

[The M]

Is there a reason your mash hoping with sabro? From my understanding for cosmic punch you are looking to utilize cascade, Citra, saaz and or calypso for mash hopping because they contain the most precursor needed for the mash enzymes to make the 3mh Thiol available. Then the yeast frees it up to the 3s4mp Thiol. I’ve only read a little bit on it, so I could be ignorant to other thiols it’s able to free up or other hops high in the precursors

I'm actually trying Simcoe with this one, not Sabro. I've been mash hopping with Cascade couple of times and once with Citra. The results have been very good. I read somewhere that Simcoe contain also decent amount of precursor for 3MH (not as much as Citra or Cascade) so I decided to give it a go. So still experimenting with Cosmic Punch

 

[The M]

My Chinook IPA has been drinking nicely, the bitterness is present, but smooth and not overbearing. I think the whirlpool pH drop to 4.8 has had a really positive impact on depth of flavors and aroma though, I'll definitely be doing that again.

Aroma: apricot, orange julius.
Flavor: dank pine, bitter orange rind and sweet navel oranges.

The Chinook has a pleasant hot-side impact, but I don't know if I'm happy with it in the dry hop. The character just isn't as explosive as the banger hops that I'd usually use.

75% 2-row
15% Flaked Oats
10% White Wheat

Mash
1oz Cascade
1oz Saaz

Boil
1oz Chinook @ 15 min
1oz Simcoe @ 10 min

Drop pH down to 4.8,
Whirlpool @ 170F
3oz Chinook
2oz Simcoe

Dry Hop
4oz Chinook
4oz Simcoe
2oz Citra

OG: 1.072
FG: 1.018
Yeast: Cosmic punch

Looks wonderful and the hop combo sounds dynamite. Did you manipulate PH after mash to reach that 4.8? I take my PH readings 10 min after mash has started, when measuring OG and when I take the samples during the fermentation. I haven't paid any attention for whirlpool PH

 

[The M]

I overbuilt my starters so Im typically starting with 2.5-3.0L to start with and harvest. After harvest, I chill for a while then decant some until I'm at about 1.5L. I do typically have a higher pitch rate. Instead of the norm 0.75 factor, I'm typically closer to 0.90-1.0 (based on brewers friend estimates). So Im bringing a good bit of healthy yeast to these 1.074-1.076 OGs. I also treat Cosmic Punch just like I have with Juice where Im oxygenating thoroughly prior to pitching as well as I'm also typically bringing 0.5lb of dextrose to the table as well. In my three cosmic punch NEIPAs landing at about 1.015 on average, my attenuation has been 78-80%.

EDIT: have you landed at 1.015 with other yeasts and came to the same "too sweet" conclusion? Reason why I ask is that my perception of cosmic punch is that its intensely fruity and that fruitiness to me can be sweet. So not sure the FG has that much to do with that sensation IMO. I have used A24 a lot and they always landing between 1.012-1.014 and never seem sweet at all. Thats barely lower than the 1.015 barrier. I did have one beer with S33/S05 finish at 1.020-1.022 (can't remember exact) but that one was DEFINITELY sweet from residual sugars. So much can contribute to perceptions of sweetness and IMHO I think Cosmic Punch is so intensely fruity that it can also be sweet.

I'm sorry, I totally forgot to answer to your post. I also overbuild my starters and try to pitch more than 0.75 according to the Brewers Friend estimates.

I have landed at 1.015 with other common NEIPA yeasts (London Fog, Imperial Juice etc.) and the final product has not been so sweet. So I think you are correct with the fruitiness of Cosmic Punch. At least for me the fruitiness is too sweet. So I decided to try and mash really low for this style and so far I like the result. Mashed at 64C (147F), aimed OG little bit lower (1.062). The beer finished at 1.008 and it tastes perfect for me. The attenuation was also super high, 86.5%. Usually with other yeasts I have used for this style, it would be too dry. But I have to say this might be my sweet spot for Cosmic Punch. The beer is still young, conditioned only for 7 days but it's promising. Much better than 1.015 I usually get out of Cosmic

 

[Dgallo]

I'm actually trying Simcoe with this one, not Sabro.

I can’t believe I read that as Sabro the other night. My bad man lol.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I'm actually trying Simcoe with this one, not Sabro. I've been mash hopping with Cascade couple of times and once with Citra. The results have been very good. I read somewhere that Simcoe contain also decent amount of precursor for 3MH (not as much as Citra or Cascade) so I decided to give it a go. So still experimenting with Cosmic Punch

Yup, Simcoe is indeed high in 3mh precursors. I've been searching for a chart that I saw somewhere (perhaps it was a powerpoint presentation that someone posted here?) that showed ranked ordered bound vs free thiols (3MH) but the link below actually showed Simcoe is actually higher than cascade in the 3mh precursors. Although from the chart in the link provided Calypso is absolutely insane compared to all others. Knowing this I did an old favorite: Simcoe Amarillo, does anyone really NOT like this combo? lol, with Cosmic punch. The end result in my experience was truly the good ol hop combo on steroids. I used some Simcoe in the mash with cascade and then it was Simcoe Amarillo exclusively the rest of the way. To spice it up, I used Amarillo lupomax in the DH with Simcoe as well. LOVE he Lupomax varieties Ive tried. I was truly stunned how intensely fruity the hydrometer sample was pre-DH. The beer was VERY good, but as some, including myself, have noted with cosmic punch and mash hopping - the super intense fruitiness can actually get pretty damn sweet. So in the future use with cosmic punch, I will probably do one beer with half of the mash hops (I have always done 4oz) OR do my standard mash hops but increase the IBUs. Ive really enjoyed playing around with Cosmic punch in general but after a few brews with Cosmic Punch, I still think I prefer A24 dry hop simply because the intense fruitiness that cosmic punch (and the mash hops) can sometimes detract from other hops dank/resin/pine characters that I like to use to balance the fruitiness with.

Cheers!

http://scottjanish.com/genetically-...eering-targeted-fermentation-characteristics/.