New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Rob2010SS]

2 oz/gal should be enough. if you go higher with pellet hops you *could* start getting some weird flavors (based on my one trial with centennial and other stories I've heard.) also, many now use malted grains rather than flaked for good haze. I am using 15% wheat malt a lot. today i used 15% wheat malt and 15% oat malt. Finally, if you soft crash before dry hopping to get rid of the yeast, you will have a long-lasting haze and the accompanying hop flavor for a long time.

Good info! Thanks man. So I have access to torrified wheat instead of malted wheat. Supposedly interchangeable from what my lhbs says. And I have access to malted oats.

Do you have a picture of the haze with the malted wheat/oats?

In regards to the soft crash, does it have to be a soft crash or could it be a full blown crash at 35*F?

 

[Rob2010SS]

So just to clarify, my dryhoping rates are only at 2oz per gallon on my bigger abv beer 9%+, for my typically single ipa I’m about 1.25-1.6oz per gallon.

My total hopping rates are from 2.5-3.5oz per gallon depending on the og

Understood. Sorry for mixing that up. That definitely helps. Thanks for the info

 

[ChiknNutz]

Has anyone ever had an amazing Milkshake IPA? Admittedly I’ve never had the Tired Hands versions but every other one I’ve had has been atrocious.

I just had my first yesterday and found it to perhaps be the best beer I've ever had. I didn't know what a "milkshake IPA" was but while vacationing near the Outer Banks, we went to a restaurant that had one from Shortway Brewing Co. They call it "Hippy IPA" and I fell in love. Had no idea what I was missing. I also tried their wheat tonight at another restaurant which had a similar flavor, I am guessing they add some lactose to this one as well. But wow, I really like these milkshake IPAs.

 

[Frieds]

Good info! Thanks man. So I have access to torrified wheat instead of malted wheat. Supposedly interchangeable from what my lhbs says. And I have access to malted oats.

Do you have a picture of the haze with the malted wheat/oats?

In regards to the soft crash, does it have to be a soft crash or could it be a full blown crash at 35*F?

This was my latest hazy ipa with 35% malted oats and I crashed this to 3C then warmed back up to 18C before dry hopping.

Ps. I follow you on insta

 

[Rob2010SS]

This was my latest hazy ipa with 35% malted oats and I crashed this to 3C then warmed back up to 18C before dry hopping.

Ps. I follow you on insta

Ha! That's awesome and thanks! What's your name on Insta?

Ok, so you went down to 37*F and back up to 64*F. So I'm taking it that how cold you crash is irrelevant - you can do it based on your system capability. Just wait until you're at FG, give it a couple of days, and then crash it for a couple of days to drop the yeast, and then warm it back up.

 

[stickyfinger]

I doubt the crash temp matters much for final beer character. Dry hop temp definitely matters.

Ha! That's awesome and thanks! What's your name on Insta?

Ok, so you went down to 37*F and back up to 64*F. So I'm taking it that how cold you crash is irrelevant - you can do it based on your system capability. Just wait until you're at FG, give it a couple of days, and then crash it for a couple of days to drop the yeast, and then warm it back up.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I doubt the crash temp matters much for final beer character. Dry hop temp definitely matters.

Yes, agreed. DH temp definitely plays a role in the character. The crashing before dry hopping is a technique I haven't done yet so just want to make sure I understand it.

 

[Oldskewl]

I just had my first yesterday and found it to perhaps be the best beer I've ever had. I didn't know what a "milkshake IPA" was but while vacationing near the Outer Banks, we went to a restaurant that had one from Shortway Brewing Co. They call it "Hippy IPA" and I fell in love. Had no idea what I was missing. I also tried their wheat tonight at another restaurant which had a similar flavor, I am guessing they add some lactose to this one as well. But wow, I really like these milkshake IPAs.

Can I ask where you had the Hippie IPA? I’m in Kill Devil Hills this week.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Question on malted wheat...

What is the typical name that's under?

My LHBS has malted oats, that's not a problem. However, they don't have anything called malted wheat. They have...
- pale wheat malt
- white wheat
- torrified wheat
- unmalted wheat <- noted, I know this isn't it.

Thanks.

 

[Frieds]

Ha! That's awesome and thanks! What's your name on Insta?

Ok, so you went down to 37*F and back up to 64*F. So I'm taking it that how cold you crash is irrelevant - you can do it based on your system capability. Just wait until you're at FG, give it a couple of days, and then crash it for a couple of days to drop the yeast, and then warm it back up.

Yeah I’m not sure whether the full crash before dry hop did anything of extra great significance as there were too many other variables in the recipe but I just tried it because others in this thread were talking about it.

 

[Frieds]

Yes, agreed. DH temp definitely plays a role in the character. The crashing before dry hopping is a technique I haven't done yet so just want to make sure I understand it.

I’m sure others in this thread will be able to articulate it better than I can, but essentially people are performing some kind of soft crash in order to drop some yeast out of suspension before the main dry hop As the yeast will strip some hop compounds when cold crashing and it may also help reduce astringency. A lot of breweries are dry hopping somewhere in the range of 55*F-60*F from articles that I’ve read and podcasts that I’ve listened to lately.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Question on malted wheat...

What is the typical name that's under?

My LHBS has malted oats, that's not a problem. However, they don't have anything called malted wheat. They have...
- pale wheat malt
- white wheat
- torrified wheat
- unmalted wheat <- noted, I know this isn't it.

Thanks.

White wheat is malted wheat. I use it all the time.

 

[couchsending]

I personally would avoid large temperature swings with the beer. Especially on the home-brew scale where
you can cool or warm a small amount of liquid in a rather short amount of time you run the risk of shocking
the yeast which can lead to maybe not blatantly obvious off flavors or a completely different beer than if you crashed but depending on how you're doing it the slow cooling over a period of time is something to be
mindful of. Just another one of those variables to think about. 100 little things all add up. It all depends on
the yeast you're using but cooling to 55 should be more than enough to drop enough of the yeast out of
suspension (and ideally remove from the beer) before adding hops. For me the "cleanest" dry hop character seems to come around 60*.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I personally would avoid large temperature swings with the beer. Especially on the home-brew scale where
you can cool or warm a small amount of liquid in a rather short amount of time you run the risk of shocking
the yeast which can lead to maybe not blatantly obvious off flavors or a completely different beer than if you crashed but depending on how you're doing it the slow cooling over a period of time is something to be
mindful of. Just another one of those variables to think about. 100 little things all add up. It all depends on
the yeast you're using but cooling to 55 should be more than enough to drop enough of the yeast out of
suspension (and ideally remove from the beer) before adding hops. For me the "cleanest" dry hop character seems to come around 60*.

Good info, thanks! I have heard this and always try to keep it in the back of my mind when crashing. I try to not be too aggressive when crashing.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Deleted.

 

[couchsending]

Never bagged, no filter, rarely get clogs. Never “contain” hops at any time during the process except for in a hopback.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Just called my LHBS and apparently they stopped carrying malted oats. They have...

- Golden Naked Oats
- Briess Blonde Roast Oat

Are either one of these interchangeable with malted oats or should I order some malted oats separately?

Do malted oats need to get milled?

 

[lowtones84]

I really don't know how you guys never contain your hops. If I don't, no matter what I do I get clogged dip tubes and poppets. Even tried a "bright tank" of a keg with a shortened dip tube, then into a serving keg. Maybe a floating dip tube?

 

[Dgallo]

Good info! Thanks man. So I have access to torrified wheat instead of malted wheat. Supposedly interchangeable from what my lhbs says. And I have access to malted oats.

Do you have a picture of the haze with the malted wheat/oats?

In regards to the soft crash, does it have to be a soft crash or could it be a full blown crash at 35*F?

I pm’d you pictures of my beers using the different adjunct grains and combinations of them

 

[Rob2010SS]

I pm’d you pictures of my beers using the different adjunct grains and combinations of them

Yep, I got them. Thanks man. I actually replied to you in the PM as well.

 

[Dgallo]

Yep, I got them. Thanks man. I actually replied to you in the PM as well.

Just saw. I’m not getting all my notification

 

[Rob2010SS]

Just saw. I’m not getting all my notification

So I thought I had it figured out and was going to leave it simple at 15% white wheat and 10% malted oats but now, with what you were saying, not sure about that now.

 

[Rob2010SS]

When it comes to whirlpooling, what's considered too much hops? For 18 gallons in the kettle, I have 2 different whirpool schedules I'm playing with. One is totaling 15.5oz in the WP and the other is 21oz in the WP. Are either of those over the top?

I'm thinking of breaking up the 15.5/21oz into 3 additions and staggering them at - 180, 170, and 160*F

 

[BeerFst]

Just called my LHBS and apparently they stopped carrying malted oats. They have...

- Golden Naked Oats
- Briess Blonde Roast Oat

Are either one of these interchangeable with malted oats or should I order some malted oats separately?

Do malted oats need to get milled?

Not the same. Actually the GNO and the Briess are similar to one another. not sure if GNO is actually roasted like the Briess, but both are character malts, almost like a honey malt, except oats. Not nearly as potent though. In the right beer you could use alot of them >1lb, but i wouldn't try something with 35% GNO/Briess like you would with normal malted oats. If you go to the simpsons or Briess sites, both provide some guidelines. I think at 30% they note an extrememly nuttiness comes through the beer, not the case with normal (Thomas fawcett for instance) malted oats.

GNO, Briess and normal Malted all need to be milled. The GNO and the Briess are huskless and will be easier to mill. the oat malt is going to be very skinny and decently hard husk, you will need to make your mill gap quite narrow. Unlike their flaked counterpart, the hard husk of the oat malt will basically act as a rice hull. i had read in the UK they actually use oat hulls instead of rice hulls to improve their lauter.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Can I ask where you had the Hippie IPA? I’m in Kill Devil Hills this week.

Was at a restaraunt called Snapperz in Atlantic Beach.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Alright, finalized my recipe for my upcoming NEIPA. The only thing I think I'm sold on and won't change (I don't think...) is the grain bill. I had to specialty order the malted oats after finding out my LHBS stopped carrying them and I wont' have time to order more so I think I'm kind of locked in here. Looking for feedback on the rest of this. Specifically, the hopping schedule for both kettle hops and dry hops. Any and all feedback welcome. Something to note, I will be using a hop spider in the kettle and a small BIAB bag to bag the dry hops so I'll be removing the dry hops from the beer. (not sure it matters)

I think my main questions are...

1. Should I move one of the whirlpool additions to flameout instead? Perhaps pull the 180*F whirlpool addition up to flameout, move the 170*F addition to 180*F and keep the 160*F addition? Not sure.... Read some things that stated that some brewers are moving to very small bittering additions and everything else is in whirlpool and dryhops. Kind of the method I was going with here...

2. For 18 gallons of wort post boil, am I using too many hops in the whirlpool? Contributors here have been very helpful in dry hopping rates but I haven't found much on whirlpool hop rates. Really just want to make sure that the amounts I have won't result in an overly bitter mess.

3. I have 16.9oz in the first dry hop and 17.1oz in the second dry hop, with the first one heavy in Citra and the second one heavy in El Dorado. That's 34oz between the 2 dry hops - is that enough? Is that too much? Again, don't want it to be a mess.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Oldskewl]

Was at a restaraunt called Snapperz in Atlantic Beach.

Thanks! Looks like that is pretty far from where we are.

 

[couchsending]

@Rob2010SS

What are you fermenting in? Bagging the dry hops and adding them in two separate additions is a sure fire way to add a bunch of O2 which will pretty much negate all those hops you’re adding. Don’t add hops during fermentation, especially a lot of them.

In regards to WP hopping... I think this is the place where you find the biggest difference between what homebrewers will tell you and what professionals will tell you. Personally I think homebrewers obsess over whirlpool temps/timing/and amounts waaaaaay too much.

How many of you test your gravity samples before dry hopping? How often by the end of fermentation are you like wow I can really pick out that huge addition of hop X? So often they always just taste the same to me. Yes there are some hops that come through fermentation better than others but for the most part it seems like so much of what’s added hotside just gets lost and especially when you’re going to be adding a huge dry hop load on top.

Recent podcast with Noah Bissell and Scott Janish where Janish says at Sapwood they’re adding 2#/bbl in the WP at temps around 180. Noah’s reaction is pretty funny. Said he doesn’t know anyone that goes that high. Another podcast with Noah recently where he discussed trading recipes with JC and they made each other’s signature pale ales. Trillium made Substance and Bissell made Fort Point. Noah had to call JC cause he thought the recipe was wrong as there were so few hotside hops in Fort Point.

My advice would be:

Pick a whirlpool temp and add them all there. 180 is generally what I choose. Whirlpool for 10, let settle and start chilling.

I think going over .5-.75oz/gallon is really not worth it. I just don’t think the hops come through fermentation well enough to justify adding more honestly. This also depends on yeast, ferm temp, pitch rate.

Are you using a conical? 15gallon batch right? How are you keeping O2 at bay? What are your pH targets?

 

[Rob2010SS]

@Rob2010SS

What are you fermenting in? Bagging the dry hops and adding them in two separate additions is a sure fire way to add a bunch of O2 which will pretty much negate all those hops you’re adding. Don’t add hops during fermentation, especially a lot of them.

In regards to WP hopping... I think this is the place where you find the biggest difference between what homebrewers will tell you and what professionals will tell you. Personally I think homebrewers obsess over whirlpool temps/timing/and amounts waaaaaay too much.

How many of you test your gravity samples before dry hopping? How often by the end of fermentation are you like wow I can really pick out that huge addition of hop X? So often they always just taste the same to me. Yes there are some hops that come through fermentation better than others but for the most part it seems like so much of what’s added hotside just gets lost and especially when you’re going to be adding a huge dry hop load on top.

Recent podcast with Noah Bissell and Scott Janish where Janish says at Sapwood they’re adding 2#/bbl in the WP at temps around 180. Noah’s reaction is pretty funny. Said he doesn’t know anyone that goes that high. Another podcast with Noah recently where he discussed trading recipes with JC and they made each other’s signature pale ales. Trillium made Substance and Bissell made Fort Point. Noah had to call JC cause he thought the recipe was wrong as there were so few hotside hops in Fort Point.

My advice would be:

Pick a whirlpool temp and add them all there. 180 is generally what I choose. Whirlpool for 10, let settle and start chilling.

I think going over .5-.75oz/gallon is really not worth it. I just don’t think the hops come through fermentation well enough to justify adding more honestly. This also depends on yeast, ferm temp, pitch rate.

Are you using a conical? 15gallon batch right? How are you keeping O2 at bay? What are your pH targets?

In regards to what I'm fermenting in - it's a half barrel unitank. My thought process was that during fermentation, the co2 being produced would somewhat protect from o2 during the first dry hop in addition to having the co2 hooked up to the blow off cane and flushing co2 into the headspace.

With the second addition, I do not have the co2 from fermentation to protect but I would still flush co2 into the head space through the blow off cane.

I'm really on the fence of piecing together a dry hopper like what I have pictured. Just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

My ph target is 5.3-5.4 during mash. I don't usually check ph after that.

 

[couchsending]

You’re dry hopping in a Unitank? Definitely don’t bag them and definitely don’t worry about O2 pickup if you can purge with Co2 through the blow off arm.

You don’t need the “protection” of active fermentation if you can do those things. Nor do you need that dry hopping device to be honest ( Although if you feel like spending the money it definitely won’t hurt). Bagging the hops will most likely introduce more O2.

I’ve been brewing in 7g Chronicals (and one Spike CF5) for the last four years. I have zero issues with O2 pickup or hop aroma/flavor degradation when adding 1 DH charge after fermentation with zero activity (and I really cant send Co2 into the headspace while adding dry hops except on the CF5). I use a funnel and add the hops as quickly as possible then use the pressure transfer fitting (which I add at the very tail end of fermentation) to purge the headspace from 5-10 times then pressurize and leave as much head pressure as the PRV on those things can handle.

Adding a lot of hops during active fermentation (especially high oil, high alpha hops) can do more harm than good. First of all you blow off a ton of aromatics through Co2 and the hop oils coat the yeast and will get dragged down when the yeast floccs. That coating of the yeast also can cause autolysis and all sorts of fermentation byproducts that you don’t want like poor diacetyl and acetaldehyde pickup. It just can create a very unhealthy environment for the yeast, you don’t want that.

Here’s my process or what my process would be with Unitanks. You won’t get any negative oxygen uptake that will harm your beer.

First check your post WP pH and make sure it’s somewhere between 5.1 and 5.0 ideally. It’ll probably take some acid if you do a huge WP addition.

Wait until fermentation is complete. Do a forced diacetyl test. If you don’t get diacetyl then cool to 55 or so. Personally I’d do it over a 12 hour period and leave for 24 hours. Do this all with some head pressure (2-3psi). While maintaining a small amount of head pressure harvest your yeast (some 1318 derivative I’d assume?). While sending Co2 through the blow off arm open the top TC port and dump your first hop addition in. Purge head space a few times and leave 2-3psi head pressure. Let temp rise to 60 on it’s own. 1-2 days later add your second DH addition (all at 60*) and leave for an additional 2 days.

Dump hops

Then start cooling the beer to 39 over a period of time (whatever your schedule allows) but ideally don’t just set it to 39. I think the cooling coils can really shock yeast when crashing in the SS tanks. You can dump more hops along the way. Leave for two days at 39 and dump more hops. Are you carbing in the tank? I’d assume since you have a Unitank you are. If so I’d cool to 34 if your system can take the tank that low and carb in the tank then transfer to kegs.

If you do this and rotate the racking arm up a bit and get everything out of the racking arm before you connect to the keg you shouldn’t worry about any clogging.

You can add hops warm at the tail end of fermentation however especially with El Dorado you run the risk of getting some pretty decent hop creep and you might have to leave the beer at ferm temps for another 7 days before it’s done and there’s no diacetyl or diacetyl precursors. Depends on a lot of other variables.