New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[eugles]

Im not sure actually. I think what @Dgallo uses might be a good option. I have tried to make very few hoppy beers in anything but a conical. I’m a big proponent of getting yeast out of the beer as soon as possible. It’s hard to do with anything but a conical.

I don’t know what your setup is. You’re kegging right?

I might try bagging some hops and putting them in a keg after you see visible signs of active fermentation and using fermentation to purge the keg. Figure out a way to prevent o2 ingress when soft crashing (balloon or whatever) then force transferring to the keg with the bagged hops. Being very very attentive to flushing all lines with Co2. You could either serve in that keg or transfer again if you’re really meticulous about purging everything insanely well.

And this point I’m trying to avoid any transfer that I can get away with. Last 2 brews have been fermented in a corny keg with a floating dip tube. I am adding hops in near terminal gravity. Planning on trying the whole spunding valve thing next brew. Anyone here have a experience with fermenting / serving from same keg? How are you dealing with dry hopping and when?

 

[beervoid]

Used to do

And this point I’m trying to avoid any transfer that I can get away with. Last 2 brews have been fermented in a corny keg with a floating dip tube. I am adding hops in near terminal gravity. Planning on trying the whole spunding valve thing next brew. Anyone here have a experience with fermenting / serving from same keg? How are you dealing with dry hopping and when?

Used to do this without issues. Only problem you want to drink the beer in not too long. Less then a month probably to avoid any grassy flavors.
And if u move the keg you risk putting alot of stuff in suspension which might never clear.
I felt my beer quality went up by transferring it off the hops and yeast though.

 

[couchsending]

And this point I’m trying to avoid any transfer that I can get away with. Last 2 brews have been fermented in a corny keg with a floating dip tube. I am adding hops in near terminal gravity. Planning on trying the whole spunding valve thing next brew. Anyone here have a experience with fermenting / serving from same keg? How are you dealing with dry hopping and when?

Yeah I definitely wouldn’t ferment, dry hop and serve in one vessel. Dry hop and serve in one, fine, but you definitely don’t want all that yeast, trub, in a keg you’re gonna drink from for an extended period. As long as you purge the lines and the reviving vessel transferring is no big deal. It’s not hard.

 

[BeerFst]

I have two kegs on tap athat are ferment, and serve from same vessel. I have no problem with this. I've done it a number of times with perfect success. My best beer ever, a Mosaic Rye Pale Ale (not hazy) with san diego super was done this way.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

we have Southern Cross, Moutere & Rakau, which tend to be on the cheaper end of the scale

Scott wrote an interesting piece about how Southern Cross has the highest 2MIB (2-methylbutyl isobutyrate) content of a range of hops, which contributes an apricot flavour which is boosted by the presence of 3-sulfanyl-4-methylpentan-1-ol (3S4MP), which is pretty much unique to Nelson. So you might want to play with SX in the whirlpool and Nelson as a dry hop.

I use riwaka alot, its the shiz - use it in a pilsner and you're in for agood time.
If you haven't tried Nelson Sauvin, do a single hop NEIPA, you won't regret it.

Apparently there's been a great harvest this year which means there was talk of the 2020 vintage of Riwaka and Nelson making it onto the spot market, even before the effects of the virus.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

How do folks go about purging lines? I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, large thread. I'm just getting capability of co2 transfers etc, but purging the lines effectively still eludes me. I already see a big improvement in stability, though.

I ferment in kegs. I purge my dry hop keg with fermentation CO2, and my serving kegs with liquid purge. In both cases, the way I purge my jumper tubing is fill it with starsan then connect it to the empty receiving(purged) keg and blow the sanitizer out then let the CO2 run for another couple seconds. Then slap it on the keg I'm transferring from.

 

[skleice]

I have two kegs on tap athat are ferment, and serve from same vessel. I have no problem with this. I've done it a number of times with perfect success. My best beer ever, a Mosaic Rye Pale Ale (not hazy) with san diego super was done this way.

I've done this for the last 5-6 batches. My kegs kick within 6 weeks. I've seen no negative effects. No complaints...

 

[couchsending]

Scott wrote an interesting piece about how Southern Cross has the highest 2MIB (2-methylbutyl isobutyrate) content of a range of hops, which contributes an apricot flavour which is boosted by the presence of 3-sulfanyl-4-methylpentan-1-ol (3S4MP), which is pretty much unique to Nelson. So you might want to play with SX in the whirlpool and Nelson as a dry hop.



Apparently there's been a great harvest this year which means there was talk of the 2020 vintage of Riwaka and Nelson making it onto the spot market, even before the effects of the virus.

Southern Cross/Nelson is the combo Alpine used/uses for Nelson. Maybe the beer that really put Nelson on the map at least here in the US.

A lot of the Thiols present in NZ hops can be easily volitized by the presence of copper so just a heads up for those with copper immersion chillers and CFCs (most seem to be copper). Not sure about the Blichmann heat exchangers. Pretty sure there’s copper in those as well??

 

[Dgallo]

And this point I’m trying to avoid any transfer that I can get away with. Last 2 brews have been fermented in a corny keg with a floating dip tube. I am adding hops in near terminal gravity. Planning on trying the whole spunding valve thing next brew. Anyone here have a experience with fermenting / serving from same keg? How are you dealing with dry hopping and when?

The set up @couchsending was referring to that I use is a fermonster with a modified solid lid that fitted with both liquid and gas keg posts and a floating dip tube. This is probably the least expensive way to close transfer and dryhop under pressure without having to sacrifice finish volume as you do fermenting in a keg. Theoretically I’ve turned my fermenter into a 7 gallon keg/Brite tank.

Here is the easiest/cheapest way to go;
1) 7 Gallon Fermonster with spigots (makes hydro samples easy) with solid cap $33.99
FerMonster Carboy With Spigot - 7 gal. | MoreBeer

2) Fermontisourus pressure kit $29.99 - you’re buying this to take the parts, the liquid and gas posts and the floating dip tube to use for your solid lid.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermentasaurus-pressure-kit.html
3) 7/16” or 1/2” drill bit so you can drill out the solid cap for the posts. Make sure you measure so that have them far enough a part so both ball lock fittings can go on at the same time but close enough when you maintain the stability of the lid. $2.
https://drillsandcutters.com/7-16-h...MIy-fZkJTA6QIVkIbACh0ARgo_EAQYAiABEgLNo_D_BwE
4) then you just needs some hose, clamps, and balllock fittings for your transfer lines.

all together you’re looking at just below $70 for a fermenter with closed transfer and pressure dryhoping capabilities. It’s also light weight and incredibly easy and quick to clean

Benefits of doing this verses fermenting in the keg;
1) You will yield a full 5 gallons of trub free beer from each of your recipes helping you become more consistent
2) You now can use all your kegs for serving purposes.
3)You can see fermentation take place which for me is almost as good as watching a fire lol

 

[TBryerton]

I struggled with the same issue, my friend. What made the difference for me is changing my dry hopping rates and dry hopping after fermentation is fully complete.
- finish fermenting
- chill to 55-58F for a day
- dry hop at around 2oz/gal for 48 hours
- then transfer to keg

I agree w/Dgallo and secretlevel. If you follow their advice you should be able to eliminate that as a concern. The one thing that isn’t mentioned often is that the best examples of these get flavor from somewhere other than just hops. Treehouse uses their yeast to get esters to compliment the hops, Other Half has a heavy oat flavor that works well and also has gotten better with esters IMO, etc. If you’re using a very basic malt bill, not getting a lot of esters from your yeast, and solely relying on the hops for flavor I think you need to use ALOT of hops and make sure have water chemistry, PH, FG, etc all dialed in or else you’re going to end up with hop water. That’s my experience at least.

 

[crusader1612]

Scott wrote an interesting piece about how Southern Cross has the highest 2MIB (2-methylbutyl isobutyrate) content of a range of hops, which contributes an apricot flavour which is boosted by the presence of 3-sulfanyl-4-methylpentan-1-ol (3S4MP), which is pretty much unique to Nelson. So you might want to play with SX in the whirlpool and Nelson as a dry hop.

I might just do that, it makes sense to use this as its slightly cheaper and utilise it more, dryhop with those bangers everyone talks about.
maybe a side to side - sx gets used alot here when hops like simcoe aren't available, as a so called NZ sub (not the same obviously). but it definitely doesn't get enough love from NZ brewers.
Then there'es rakau, which exhibits pineapple
and moutere which is tropical fruit on a lower end scale

By the way, if you ever manage to get hold of a hop called HORT 4337, its a new experimental hop here, and its like a tropical fruit mix between citra and nelson, its awesome..

Apparently there's been a great harvest this year which means there was talk of the 2020 vintage of Riwaka and Nelson making it onto the spot market, even before the effects of the virus.

I've heard similar, and as we come out of lockdown and down in alert levels so to speak, thing will begin to open up. Export in NZ is huge, so to have that completely cut off to other countries would hurt us economically - alot. Fingers crossed.

 

[Frieds]

How many generations are people generally getting out of a packet of 1318 before it stops performing consistently?

 

[isomerization]

How many generations are people generally getting out of a packet of 1318 before it stops performing consistently?

Overbuilt starter or harvested from a fermentation? Or are we considering those to be equivalent?

 

[Frieds]

Overbuilt starter or harvested from a fermentation? Or are we considering those to be equivalent?

overbuilt starter in my case

 

[VirginiaHops1]

How many generations are people generally getting out of a packet of 1318 before it stops performing consistently?

I don't really have an answer to your question, as I harvest liquid yeast but generally move on after gen 2. I actually recently harvested generation 3 of A38 Juice though. I think I'm going to push that as far as I can and see what happens.

 

[BeerFst]

How many generations are people generally getting out of a packet of 1318 before it stops performing consistently?

I went to Gen 5 before cutting it off. However my first collection was before i did overbuilt starters, so it was top cropped from a batch in process. I don't recall anything bad with gen 5, but i had decided to just cut it off then and try some other yeast options. Though frankly i really want to get back to Juice/1318. currently running A24.

Not hazy related, but i just did Gen 4 of Darkness (1084 equivalent) and it seems to be done. WAY under attenuated, like 58-63% attenuation only. The stout had lactose in it, so if you include the lactose its 58%, but if you take it out of the equation its the higher number. though thats still well below the 70% i was expecting, FG of 1.026 and 4.8% ABV. Nice and sessionable with decent body, but all that sweetness takes away from the roastiness after the first glass.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I might just do that, it makes sense to use this as its slightly cheaper and utilise it more, dryhop with those bangers everyone talks about.
maybe a side to side - sx gets used alot here when hops like simcoe aren't available, as a so called NZ sub (not the same obviously). but it definitely doesn't get enough love from NZ brewers.

You obviously see a lot more of SX than we do - does it vary a lot? There's only one beer I regularly see it in and it's the most inconsistent beer I know, from a brewery that usually knows what they are doing. I was wondering if it was particularly susceptible to batch/vintage variation or whether they just had problems getting hold of it and so were messing around with the recipe to compensate. I was quite pleased to score some as a freebie at Brewcon before Christmas, I guess I need to get some Nelson to go with it...

Yeah, I was aware of the hype enthusiasm for 4337, but I don't think any has made it here officially yet, other than in the suitcases of some Kiwi brewers coming over for collabs. Parrotdog have done one with North that I missed, and Brew Moon were meant to be coming over to Shepherd Neame around the time of the shutdown, I'm not sure what happened to that. Will look forward to trying some.

Export in NZ is huge, so to have that completely cut off to other countries would hurt us economically - alot. Fingers crossed.

The UK seems to do quite well on NZ hops (whereas the Aussies seem to deal more with the US, apart from the huge amounts of Galaxy/Topaz that go into the Guinness lager) and it's become a bit of a thing to have them in a golden Best over our summer. Fingers crossed that we get to see some kind of communal drinking this summer - the current plan here is no hospitality to open for at least another 6 weeks, and I suspect it may be more geared to beer gardens rather than opening pubs as such. Still, if hop exports are the biggest worry you have, it could be worse....

 

[ryanm8]

I have mine going on 3 years now. I'm not sure how many batches that is, but probably around 10-15. I always do an overbuilt starter. It's performing and tasting exactly the same as what I remember when fresh.

How many generations are people generally getting out of a packet of 1318 before it stops performing consistently?

 

[crusader1612]

You obviously see a lot more of SX than we do - does it vary a lot? There's only one beer I regularly see it in and it's the most inconsistent beer I know, from a brewery that usually knows what they are doing. I was wondering if it was particularly susceptible to batch/vintage variation or whether they just had problems getting hold of it and so were messing around with the recipe to compensate. I was quite pleased to score some as a freebie at Brewcon before Christmas, I guess I need to get some Nelson to go with it...

Yeah, I was aware of the hype enthusiasm for 4337, but I don't think any has made it here officially yet, other than in the suitcases of some Kiwi brewers coming over for collabs. Parrotdog have done one with North that I missed, and Brew Moon were meant to be coming over to Shepherd Neame around the time of the shutdown, I'm not sure what happened to that. Will look forward to trying some.

If you can get it, use it, its probably the best new hop I've had in awhile, and that includes hops like sabro etc. which are immensely popular. I don't know a huge amount about Southern Cross to be hones,t but it is severely uner utilised IMO. Piney resiny and tropical. '

Brewmoon are local to me, PD are Wellington (I'm in the south).

The UK seems to do quite well on NZ hops (whereas the Aussies seem to deal more with the US, apart from the huge amounts of Galaxy/Topaz that go into the Guinness lager) and it's become a bit of a thing to have them in a golden Best over our summer. Fingers crossed that we get to see some kind of communal drinking this summer - the current plan here is no hospitality to open for at least another 6 weeks, and I suspect it may be more geared to beer gardens rather than opening pubs as such. Still, if hop exports are the biggest worry you have, it could be worse....

Our hospo opens in full today, restaurants reopened last week (i.e. sit down meal only, including drinks can be served). now bars are open as well, but its seating only and table service (no sitting at the bar, or ordering from the bar.

 

[ryanm8]

Here is my latest using the suggestion by @stickyfinger to hard crash, warm up for the dry hop (low 70's F), and cold crash again before packaging. I can say this is my favorite method so far.

I had brewed this same exact beer a few weeks prior using a soft crash and dry hop at 60 F. That one was good, but did not have the hop punch of this version. I'm not sure if its the hard crash before dry hop or the warmer dry temps that caused it, but this version is noticeably sweeter and has more/better flavor. Malt bill and FG were exactly the same, so the sweetness is purely coming from the hops.

I will be sticking with this method from now on. 3 weeks from brewday and it is killer.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

After soft crashing to 57 for about 24hrs (or until I easily see visual evidence of yeast flocking to bottom), Ive experimented with dry hopping at temps ranging from 57 to 73. I will start by saying all of these beers were good BUT my experience was that the cooler temps (below 60) were more muted although definitely present. 73 was a great temp that really made the hops pop a bunch in terms of flavor and aroma - BUT I feel as though the aromas were more "fragile" and didn't last as long throughout the kegs life. So Ive settled in at 65 degrees which seems to be a sweet spot between providing a great hop punch (flavor and aroma) AND having it last for the lifetime of the keg and it actually seems to improve over the course of 3-4 weeks which is the end of a typical keg for me. Im wondering if the beers dry hopped at 57 just take a little longer to mature and provide that same hop punch. If thats the case, lower temps may be ideal for shelf stability - but Im just a home brewer and want to enjoy my NEIPAs without waiting weeks on end for that.

 

[Dgallo]

Tapped my lastest ipa last night and it’s impressive.

NEIIPA 8.7% featuring Cashmere, Amarillo pellet/cryo, Citra pellet/cryo, & Sabro in a 3:2:1:1 ratio ran with a24 dryhop. Grainbill was simple 75% 2row, 15% Chit Malt, 10% Flaked Oats. This is def another beer going in top 5 combos for me. Flavor profile is very tropical with notes Peach Ring Gummies, Orange cream, Lime zest, and coconut in the finish tied in with smooth/soft resinous bitterness to round it all out. Mouthfeel is pretty good, a little “thick” finish at 1.016 so I may target a lower mash temp next time I brew this to see if that helps lighten it up. It was naturally carbed so its got very tight bubbles that gives a creamy note. Def a great hop combo.

 

[emr25]

Latest NE IPA brewed last night. The Galaxy / Strata / Idaho 7 combination is a new one for me, looking forward to tasting it in a few weeks.

OG - 1.064 (1.067 w/ Lactose)
FG - 1.013 (1.016 w/ Lactose)
ABV - 6.7%
~35 IBU

Malts
(50%) 10 lbs Weyermann Pilsner
(25%) 5 lbs W Pale Ale
(10%) 2 lbs Oat Malt
(8.75%) 1 lbs 12 oz White Wheat
(2.5%) 8 oz Golden Naked Oats
(2.5%) 8 oz Acidulated
(1.25%) 4 oz Gambrinus Honey

1 lbs Lactose at Flameout (7.7 Gallons Volume)

Hops
30 Min - 2 mL Hop Extract
5 Min - 0.5 oz Galaxy / 0.5 oz Strata / 1.0 oz Idaho 7
160* WP - 1.5 oz Galaxy / 1.5 oz Strata / 3.0 oz Idaho 7
DH (Keg) - 4.0 oz Galaxy / 1.0 oz Strata / 1.0 oz Idaho 7

Yeast
London Ale III (WY1318) Fermented at 66*F

 

[isomerization]

Latest NE IPA brewed last night. The Galaxy / Strata / Idaho 7 combination is a new one for me, looking forward to tasting it in a few weeks.

OG - 1.064 (1.067 w/ Lactose)
FG - 1.013 (1.016 w/ Lactose)
ABV - 6.7%
~35 IBU

Malts
(50%) 10 lbs Weyermann Pilsner
(25%) 5 lbs W Pale Ale
(10%) 2 lbs Oat Malt
(8.75%) 1 lbs 12 oz White Wheat
(2.5%) 8 oz Golden Naked Oats
(2.5%) 8 oz Acidulated
(1.25%) 4 oz Gambrinus Honey

1 lbs Lactose at Flameout (7.7 Gallons Volume)

Hops
30 Min - 2 mL Hop Extract
5 Min - 0.5 oz Galaxy / 0.5 oz Strata / 1.0 oz Idaho 7
160* WP - 1.5 oz Galaxy / 1.5 oz Strata / 3.0 oz Idaho 7
DH (Keg) - 4.0 oz Galaxy / 1.0 oz Strata / 1.0 oz Idaho 7

Yeast
London Ale III (WY1318) Fermented at 66*F

Shouldn’t you be getting ~6 gravity points (on both OG/FG) from the 1 lb lactose?

 

[Dgallo]

Shouldn’t you be getting ~6 gravity points (on both OG/FG) from the 1 lb lactose?

I get 5.32 GU from it. Lactose is 41 gravity units for 1 lb in 1 gallon. so at 7.7 gallons ( 41 gu / 7.7 gallon = 5.324.. GU)

 

[isomerization]

I get 5.32 GU from it. Lactose is 41 gravity units for 1 lb in 1 gallon. so at 7.7 gallons ( 41 gu / 7.7 gallon = 5.324.. GU)

Okay, well they have listed 3 points. And I did say ~

 

[Dgallo]

Okay, well they have listed 3 points. And I did say ~

haha sorry, it's just been one of those morning. Had a student submit work that clearly was done by his parent or older sibling in college and when I asked about the quality I got "I just tried really hard." Now I'm fired up about to do a Zoom with him to have him define the 20+ vocabulary terms I know he doesnt know that he used lol

 

[isomerization]

haha sorry, it's just been one of those morning. Had a student submit work that clearly was done by his parent or older sibling in college and when I asked about the quality I got "I just tried really hard." Now I'm fired up about to do a Zoom with him to have him define the 20+ vocabulary terms I know he doesnt know that he used lol

Crush his dreams!

 

[emr25]

Okay, well they have listed 3 points. And I did say ~

Yeah it’s a bit of a mystery to me, but I’ve brewed 3 batches with identical recipes and every time I check gravity before and after the lactose addition and get only .003 SG increase. It’s added during recirculation whirlpool so I know it is mixing well.

 

[aaronm13]

Tapped my lastest ipa last night and it’s impressive.

NEIIPA 8.7% featuring Cashmere, Amarillo pellet/cryo, Citra pellet/cryo, & Sabro in a 3:2:1:1 ratio ran with a24 dryhop. Grainbill was simple 75% 2row, 15% Chit Malt, 10% Flaked Oats. This is def another beer going in top 5 combos for me. Flavor profile is very tropical with notes Peach Ring Gummies, Orange cream, Lime zest, and coconut in the finish tied in with smooth/soft resinous bitterness to round it all out. Mouthfeel is pretty good, a little “thick” finish at 1.016 so I may target a lower mash temp next time I brew this to see if that helps lighten it up. It was naturally carbed so its got very tight bubbles that gives a creamy note. Def a great hop combo. View attachment 681547View attachment 681548

Sounds and looks fantastic. Is it 3 parts Cashmere and 2 parts Amarillo?

I need to put in a new Yakima order as I'm running out fast. Was hanging on till 2020 Galaxy comes out, was out in June last year but who knows what's going to happen with supplies this year. Might still Cashmere and Sabro on the list for something new to try. Not mad on coconut flavour so would keep the Sabro low.