New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[centrical]

I agree with this. The flaked grains themselves are not enough to create the haze. I don't know that anyone has totally nailed it down yet..... but, I think the leading candidate is an interaction of hop polyphenols with protein during active fermentation.... that is what likely creates the haze. If it is "murky" - that is yeast and possibly hop material in addition to the haze.

I agree with this mostly Brau - it's from the behavior of the yeast, but I have to disagree about the active fermentation part being necessary.

To be clear - I use exclusively 1318, so my experience is from this yeast. I made your blonde ale - 60 min and 30min hops only. But I split the batch it two secondaries. I dry hoped only one of the with 1oz Citra, 1oz Cascade (equiv of 4oz/5gl). I added the dry hop on about day 15 - and only let it sit 2 days prior to cold crashing and kegging.

The straight blonde ale came out relatively clear. Slightly hazy due to some flakes in the grist as you would expect. But the dry hopped one came out down right cloudy (and delicious). Looked like a typical cloudy NE IPA.

So dry hopping long after active fermentation, with 1318 at least, causes the haze/cloudiness.

One additional note. I've also split the batch in the primary, fermenting one with 1318, and the other with Wyeast Yorkshire ale yeast. The 1318 again came out cloudy, the Yorkshire came out much clearer.
Additionally, 1318 seems to take on a whole different taste when heavily hopped. The Yorkshire just came out hoppier, but with 1318 it seems to react somehow and add a whole citrusy zesty taste and aroma - a whole additional dimension.

This is my observations at least.

 

[Braufessor]

I agree with this mostly Brau - it's from the behavior of the yeast, but I have to disagree about the active fermentation part being necessary.

To be clear - I use exclusively 1318, so my experience is from this yeast. I made your blonde ale - 60 min and 30min hops only. But I split the batch it two secondaries. I dry hoped only one of the with 1oz Citra, 1oz Cascade (equiv of 4oz/5gl). I added the dry hop on about day 15 - and only let it sit 2 days prior to cold crashing and kegging.

The straight blonde ale came out relatively clear. Slightly hazy due to some flakes in the grist as you would expect. But the dry hopped one came out down right cloudy (and delicious). Looked like a typical cloudy NE IPA.

So dry hopping long after active fermentation, with 1318 at least, causes the haze/cloudiness.

One additional note. I've also split the batch in the primary, fermenting one with 1318, and the other with Wyeast Yorkshire ale yeast. The 1318 again came out cloudy, the Yorkshire came out much clearer.
Additionally, 1318 seems to take on a whole different taste when heavily hopped. The Yorkshire just came out hoppier, but with 1318 it seems to react somehow and add a whole citrusy zesty taste and aroma - a whole additional dimension.

This is my observations at least.

Interesting that the blonde came out cloudy with the very late dry hop..... although, 4 ounces per 5 gallons is a decent amount of dry hop.

Honestly, most of my personal experience with 1318 has been in brewing british bitters and british milds..... crystal clear. It was always one of my "go to" yeasts for those types of beers. Clean, clear, rich beer. Of course, I don't dry hop those beers either. Interesting how yeast can behave differently under different circumstances.

I also wonder about the interaction of certain yeasts with certain hops..... I have been making some recent batches that were Cascade/Centennial heavy with some Summit.... those beers were less hazy/cloudy for sure than beers where I am using the super oily hops like Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic/Simcoe/Columbus etc.

A lot of recent research has been looking at what specific, individual hop oils do and contribute at various stages of the process - I would not be surprised if a portion of the answer lies in that area. Might also explain to some extent why more traditional west coast beers that are highly hopped are less cloudy/hazy - Cascade/Centennial/Chinook type hops.

 

[isomerization]

I think Scott and others, through research and experimentation, are closing in on the cause, but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. I am still waiting for a definitive, science backed answer to this question and trying a lot of the things folks are suggesting in my brewery. People are doing/saying lots of different things they believe are contributing to the cause. Some say it is the yeast or a combination of yeast and hops. Others claim adjuncts like wheat, flour, oats. Others definitely add adjuncts into this style of beer...Tired Hands, for instance, is purported to add apple pectin to their beers. Still others are saying it is a combination of things: different yeasts at different temps/stages of fermentation, fermentation or mash temperatures, and other process related changes in combination with ingredients that is causing the effect. I find it interesting that in my experiences it has been easy to create a cloudy beer, but a lot harder to keep the oils in suspension for more than days/weeks. I am getting to the point where I can keep a keg hazy until it kicks, but I have changed so many things I cannot point to a single thing that did the trick...

One thing I would point out is that the search and research for how to brew a good NEIPA has really helped my brewing. Things I believe have contributed are yeast (1318 and 007), adjuncts (wheat and oats, have some apple pectin but have not brewed with it yet), fermentation under pressure in a closed system, whirlpooling with no kettle additions other than a small bittering charge, dry hopping during active fermentation, LODO techniques on the cold side, etc. Not sure if one of these, all of these, or none of these is making my NEIPA taste/smell better and stay turbid for longer but I believe all have helped me brew better beer that stays fresh longer with a better shelf life.

I still am trying to get my head around the concept of oxidized polyphenols from hops causing haze, because they also cause strong flavors that are not pleasant or present in the high quality NEIPAs I have purchased from Tree House, Trillium, etc. nor are they in the beers I brew. In other words, how is the thing that causes an IPA to taste like ass AND creating the permanent NEIPA haze related and what are we doing to get the latter but not the former?

Nice post, reading my post again and I came off a bit to matter of fact. Should have had a caveat of the leading hypothesis (imo).

Flaked adjuncts are most definitely not required for heavy haze, I feel like that has been demonstrated many times. This isn't to say that it doesn't increase the haze, but it's certainly not required.

I'm certainly not an expert here, but no beer is made in a vacuum (space dust? Lol), so I imagine that oxidiation is always occurring, it's just a matter of how much and when.

 

[jakturner]

From my personal experience, if I dryhop during active fermentation it stays cloudy till it kicks, but if i wait around too long on the first dryhop it starts to clear up a little after a about 2-3 weeks. But I regularly spit a batch in half and quick sour one half with no hops added, fermented with the same yeast (1318), and it will drop completely clear in 1-2 weeks, that's with 25-30% flaked oats/wheat.

 

[stickyfinger]

Many of us on this thread and others have been brewing the new super hoppy NE-style beers for awhile now. I think when you brew enough of them you start to realize that yeast and hops are the most likely cause of haze. I also have had some of the most delicious beers of my life in this style but they were only moderately hazy, could still see through them, especially once they warmed up. Super haze isn't needed for fantastic hoppy beer, but it does tend to be there at least to some degree when you use a ton of hops (depending on the type/lot of hops as Brau pointed out) and especially with certain yeast strains as well.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

I made Brau's updated recipe 3 times with Vermont ale. I ran out of Galaxy so I switched it for Eldorado and the other one for Apollo and I can certify that my beer was cloudy as hell even after 5 weeks in the keg. This recipe/process is working very well... for me at least...

 

[hezagenius]

For those into water chemistry, how much sodium is too much? At what point do you starting getting a "salty" beer? I was reading some posts on another site and someone getting good results said part of their focus was getting hardness as low as possible (i.e. cutting back on Ca and Mg).

I was thinking of trying a 100 Cl, 50 SO4 profile for my next NEIPA but in order to get that and minimize Ca and Mg, I end up with 65 Na and 12.6 Mg and a hardness of 50. Is that beer going to be salty tasting?

Are there other sources of Cl and SO4 besides the usual suspects (NaCl, CaCl, MgCl, CaSO4, MgSO4)?

I'm starting with distilled water so I'm assuming no appreciable minerals pre-treatment.

 

[schematix]

Add brewtan B to the kettle of a heavily hopped beer. It will never clear in my experience, even 6 months later still looks disgusting.

 

[Braufessor]

For those into water chemistry, how much sodium is too much? At what point do you starting getting a "salty" beer? I was reading some posts on another site and someone getting good results said part of their focus was getting hardness as low as possible (i.e. cutting back on Ca and Mg).

I was thinking of trying a 100 Cl, 50 SO4 profile for my next NEIPA but in order to get that and minimize Ca and Mg, I end up with 65 Na and 12.6 Mg and a hardness of 50. Is that beer going to be salty tasting?

Are there other sources of Cl and SO4 besides the usual suspects (NaCl, CaCl, MgCl, CaSO4, MgSO4)?

I'm starting with distilled water so I'm assuming no appreciable minerals pre-treatment.

I think you would have to be higher than 65ppm of Na to make a beer taste salty. 65 is probably getting higher than what most people would use.... but, I think you are still below the flavor threshold at that point.

 

[Gustatorian]

With your fermentor jump to keg, and then keg jump to serving keg, do you ever have issues with hop particulate getting stuck in the dip tubes/poppits? If I don't cold-crash my dry-hopped beers, I have difficulty in the direct transfer from fermentor to keg. I assume playing a something around the dip tube will help with the keg to keg jump...

 

[Gustatorian]

Also, can you discuss your no-oxygen process in post 1418? The link you provided no longer works.

(http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09...no-oxygen.html)

 

[stonebrewer]

@isomerization: I did not read your post as being matter of fact...more so adding information for discussion to this great thread! Definitely agree oxidation is always occurring...I haven't aged a single beer that has not oxidized in a can or bottle (and I usually want this with some styles!). For this style, all I want to do is find mechanisms to limit it to such a degree that it doesn't cause more than minor degradation to my NEIPA before I run out. Each of us brew in slightly, even greatly, different manners, and a lot of my NEIPAs are 2.5G volumes in a 5G keg brewed on a Zymatic. So that leaves a LOT more headspace for me to worry about both in fermentation and serving...so keeping O2 out of my process is paramount! Any thoughts on what we are doing to limit the harsh flavors associated with oxidized polyphenols? Scott talks about oats and unmalted wheat limiting polyphenols, but still can't quite connect the dots...

@Braufessor: I personally don't "hate" any brewing technique that makes better beer, but at the same time would not argue that adding flour/pectin/bug spray/etc. is warranted just to "make the style". I think that a lot of people have associated the haze with the flavor/aroma characteristics of these beers. Not sure one way or the other! One thought is that the haze is suspending hop oils and byproducts that increase the aroma and flavor of this style. I think that is why I and others are trying to keep the haze around longer, because I personally have detected a huge drop off in flavor and more so in aroma when my NEIPAs clear after a few weeks/month. Just as TH and Trillium in cans clear and fall off, so does our kegged beer. I think that might be why some brewers are trying to create "MAX HAZE" in their beers...to keep that flavor/aroma around as long as possible?? Maybe we are barking up the wrong tree on cause and effect here, but it seems a logical starting place to explain the drop off. I am also thinking oxidation and hop/yeast interaction are another component of this puzzle. I am an engineer and most of the more complex problems I have solved have been multiple issues, not a single magic bullet. I think that is what we have here and what I tried to express earlier. On Tired Hands, I have had some good beers from them but they tend to be too bitter for my tastes (though not always). I have wondered if they are adding pectin to make a faux NEIPA at times, myself, which would back up your distain for the practice...If you have a fantastic, clear IPA, don't label it NEIPA and add haze ingredients! It will stand on its own merits. However if you think it will stay super hop-tastic by adding haze enhancers, it might be worth experimenting with?? Dunno, but I am willing to do a brew or two to see! Cheers!!

 

[centrical]

Add brewtan B to the kettle of a heavily hopped beer. It will never clear in my experience, even 6 months later still looks disgusting.

That's too bad. Since these beers are, shall we say "shelf life challenged", Brewtan B might have been a solution. Anyone else try using it?

 

[stonebrewer]

For those into water chemistry, how much sodium is too much? At what point do you starting getting a "salty" beer? I was reading some posts on another site and someone getting good results said part of their focus was getting hardness as low as possible (i.e. cutting back on Ca and Mg).

I was thinking of trying a 100 Cl, 50 SO4 profile for my next NEIPA but in order to get that and minimize Ca and Mg, I end up with 65 Na and 12.6 Mg and a hardness of 50. Is that beer going to be salty tasting?

Are there other sources of Cl and SO4 besides the usual suspects (NaCl, CaCl, MgCl, CaSO4, MgSO4)?

I'm starting with distilled water so I'm assuming no appreciable minerals pre-treatment.

The taste threshold for sodium in water depends on the associated anion and the temperature of the solution. At room temperature, the threshold values are about 20 mg/litre for sodium carbonate, 150 mg/litre for sodium chloride, 190 mg/litre for sodium nitrate, 220 mg/litre for sodium sulfate, and 420 mg/litre for sodium bicarbonate. Thank you Google! Cheers!

 

[Gustatorian]

@isomerization: I did not read your post as being matter of fact...more so adding information for discussion to this great thread! Definitely agree oxidation is always occurring...I haven't aged a single beer that has not oxidized in a can or bottle (and I usually want this with some styles!). For this style, all I want to do is find mechanisms to limit it to such a degree that it doesn't cause more than minor degradation to my NEIPA before I run out. Each of us brew in slightly, even greatly, different manners, and a lot of my NEIPAs are 2.5G volumes in a 5G keg brewed on a Zymatic. So that leaves a LOT more headspace for me to worry about both in fermentation and serving...so keeping O2 out of my process is paramount! Any thoughts on what we are doing to limit the harsh flavors associated with oxidized polyphenols? Scott talks about oats and unmalted wheat limiting polyphenols, but still can't quite connect the dots...

I think the limitation of harsh polyphenols in the final beer comes from using a good amount of flaked oats/wheat and a specific hopping regimen. Per Janish's article(s), the larger proteins contained in the flaked grains (a much higher % of larger proteins than found in malted grains), will help drop out polyphenols contributed by the massive amounts of dry-hopping. However, if you're dry-hopping "in-keg" or fairly late in fermentation (with hop pellets), I would assume that the proteins ability to drop polyphenols, contributed from the vegetal matter in the pellets, would be much less effective. However, if you're using a sufficient amount of flaked, non-malted grains in your grist bill, and using hop pellets to dry-hop early in fermentation, this would make me think that the larger proteins could assist in taking lots of the harshness out of the beer. THEN maybe stick to cryo-hops for late dry-hopping/in-keg additions...as they have their vegetal matter removed, thus no polyphenol contribution.

 

[Gustatorian]

That's too bad. Since these beers are, shall we say "shelf life challenged", Brewtan B might have been a solution. Anyone else try using it?

Sounds like it did help in keeping haze around if the haze is there 6 months later.

 

[stonebrewer]

I think the limitation of harsh polyphenols in the final beer comes from using a good amount of flaked oats/wheat and a specific hopping regimen.

I can see your argument, however I know that Trillium and I believe that TH do not use flaked adjuncts. So this may be a case where some brewers avoid oxidized polyphenols with flaked wheat/oats, but it is just not the panacea I am looking for. I have used both flaked and non-flaked wheat/oats to achieve the same results. I was convinced at one time that it was flaked, but I am now convinced it is more complicated than that...

 

[Gustatorian]

I can see your argument, however I know that Trillium and I believe that TH do not use flaked adjuncts. So this may be a case where some brewers avoid oxidized polyphenols with flaked wheat/oats, but it is just not the panacea I am looking for. I have used both flaked and non-flaked wheat/oats to achieve the same results. I was convinced at one time that it was flaked, but I am now convinced it is more complicated than that...

Just speculating, but I think the panacea is in the process. TH and Trill could give us the exact ingredients/scheduling and it would still be difficult to replicate–pretty much like any other form of art.

 

[schematix]

That's too bad. Since these beers are, shall we say "shelf life challenged", Brewtan B might have been a solution. Anyone else try using it?

I do full low-oxygen process too. It was still 95% as good as new when I kicked the 10th gallon.

 

[Gustatorian]

I do full low-oxygen process too. It was still 95% as good as new when I kicked the 10th gallon.

Got any details on your lodo process?

 

[schematix]

Got any details on your lodo process?

More or less the same process espoused and widely ridiculed in the infamous thread on HBT. More recent improvements can be found at http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/low-oxygen-review/

On the hot side it basically boils down to pre-boil mash water to take oxygen to near 0, little bit of sulfites for active scavenging, inert gas purge lines and tun (easier than it sounds), underlet the mash, stir once, mash cap, no air leaks in hoses/fittings. Full volume mash, no sparge (which makes brewing much easier!)

On the cold side i rapidly cool and pitch soon thereafter, dry hop during active fermentation (~1.020) with positive external CO2 pressure applied to the fermenter, add priming sugar to the fermenter prior to transfer, and transfer once the yeast is reactivated, ~1-2 hours. For lagers there's no dry hopping and it's even easier. Rack with a few points to go into a sealed keg. It naturally carbonates and takes oxygen to near 0.

I ferment in corny kegs in the process described in the link in my sig. It's a lot of little things, but just like with brewing, it's all second nature now.

 

[TimmyWit]

@stickyfinger not sure if you remember me promising to do a temperature experiment with OYL-057 forever ago, but I finally got around to it. I'm sipping on the 90F version now and I do not detect any off flavors. Brew day was 13 days ago. As you might expect, the 67F version took a little longer to reach FG. I transferred it to the serving keg today so I should be able to do a proper comparison shortly. As with the previous batch, I expect the haze to decrease with pours/time. My guess is that this yeast is more flocculant than a typical NE IPA strain. But for now, it looks/drinks like a classic example.

 

[stonebrewer]

Just speculating, but I think the panacea is in the process. TH and Trill could give us the exact ingredients/scheduling and it would still be difficult to replicate–pretty much like any other form of art.

I don't disagree! I think it is both ingredient and process driven, but what does an amateur like me know. The journey is the fun part!

 

[stickyfinger]

@stickyfinger not sure if you remember me promising to do a temperature experiment with OYL-057 forever ago, but I finally got around to it. I'm sipping on the 90F version now and I do not detect any off flavors. Brew day was 13 days ago. As you might expect, the 67F version took a little longer to reach FG. I transferred it to the serving keg today so I should be able to do a proper comparison shortly. As with the previous batch, I expect the haze to decrease with pours/time. My guess is that this yeast is more flocculant than a typical NE IPA strain. But for now, it looks/drinks like a classic example.

cool. interesting to see if any flavor differences

 

[Mordhaus]

I finally got around to brewing this a few weeks ago. My last several brews have been toying around with variations of BYO's Julius clone, all of which were quite good. I had high hopes for this one since I've subscribed to this thread from the beginning and it's the worst batch of beer I've ever made.

To be clear, THIS IS NO FAULT OF THE RECIPE ITSELF. This is more just me logging my thoughts about what I feel went wrong while I have some free time. If anyone reads this and would like to chime in, "Well, stupid, this is where you went wrong.", feel free.

When I say it's the worst, it's because the beer is undeniably afflicted by the often talked about "Band Aid" taste. I knew it was a thing, but have never had it happen to me. If you've never had it happen, I'll say right now, it is an unmistakable taste. This batch has been kegged for almost two weeks now and if the flavor doesn't subside, it's a dumper for sure. It's barely palatable.

On paper, brew day went off without a hitch. All targets were hit and it was a pretty uneventful day. I followed the updated grain bill in post 1418 (or whatever it is) and scaled it to my equipment.

1/2 oz Columbus @ 60
3 oz Citra 30 min. steep @ 160
2 oz. Galaxy 30 min. steep @ 160
3 oz. Citra dry hop @ day 4
2 oz. Galaxy dry hop @ day 4
1318 yeast
Mash ph 5.3
100:100 Chloride:Sulfate

I like to think I stick to my guns when it comes to procedure, sanitation and all the other things I try not to obsess about, but usually do, when it comes to brewing. However, there are some things I did on purpose and not so much on purpose that I think may have bit me in the ass.

1. The Yeast: I've been harvesting the same batch of 1318 for the last 7 brews. A vitality starter pitched in to each at high activity. This one would have been #8. Those prior 7 all finished out in 5-7 days. I would always start to ramp the temp from 67 degrees and dry hop 4 days in, as I did with this batch, kegging about 4 days after. By day 8, I still had active fermentation and it kept up in to day 12.

This is where I started to worry. I never dry hop this long and I've likely split the yeast so many times it just doesn't have anything left. This is where I place the blame on the outcome of this beer.

2. Whirlfoc: I always use it, but decided not to this time to see if it made a difference in haze, flavor, whatever. The beer is definitely murkier than any other I've made, but I don't think it contributed to the taste outcome with any significance.

3. Star San stored in serving lines: Before this brew I had cleaned all my kegs, transferred Star San from one to another via my Star San storage keg (I keep a keg pre-mixed using distilled water and change it out every few months), purging with co2, just like I always do. I cleaned all my lines with BLC, rinsed with water, then stored with Star San, like I always do. I didn't check the ph of my mix, but even if it wasn't effective, I don't see this causing an issue with the beer. Regardless, my brain won't let me use any of my other kegs or serving lines until I've cleaned them again and dosed them with a fresh batch of sanitizer.

4. Vitality Starters: I used to make starters the traditional way by calculating cells needed, mixing up the appropriate amount of wort, letting it finish out on the stir plate and pitching once it's done. It worked fine. Then I figured I'd give the vitality starter thing a try. I'm not sure why, just to try something different I guess. I'd mix up a 1000ml starter, pitch my previously harvested yeast, let it get good and angry and then pitch it in to the fermentor. It worked well. The beers were taking off in the same amount of time and tasting just fine. Did it finally backfire on me and I underpitched this particular batch? I think I underpitched due to over stressed yeast that just couldn't take it anymore and the rest of it was dead anyways.

In the future, I won't be splitting yeast more than 4-5 times. I may throw a traditional starter in the mix every once in a while. Still undecided there. I'll probably go back to Whirlfloc regardless of beer style. I don't think I did anything wrong with my Star San, but I'll probably store the keg of it inside instead of in the garage and I'll be checking it's ph before I use it each time.


That's my story. Being the first bad batch I've ever made, my pride is a little dinged up and maybe I'm questioning things that I shouldn't, but I plan to make this again so I can see what this recipe is really about.

 

[Gustatorian]

More or less the same process espoused and widely ridiculed in the infamous thread on HBT. More recent improvements can be found at http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/low-oxygen-review/

On the hot side it basically boils down to pre-boil mash water to take oxygen to near 0, little bit of sulfites for active scavenging, inert gas purge lines and tun (easier than it sounds), underlet the mash, stir once, mash cap, no air leaks in hoses/fittings. Full volume mash, no sparge (which makes brewing much easier!)

On the cold side i rapidly cool and pitch soon thereafter, dry hop during active fermentation (~1.020) with positive external CO2 pressure applied to the fermenter, add priming sugar to the fermenter prior to transfer, and transfer once the yeast is reactivated, ~1-2 hours. For lagers there's no dry hopping and it's even easier. Rack with a few points to go into a sealed keg. It naturally carbonates and takes oxygen to near 0.

I ferment in corny kegs in the process described in the link in my sig. It's a lot of little things, but just like with brewing, it's all second nature now.

This is great stuff. Mind if I ping you on the messenger if I have any specific questions about the LODO process that can't be answered on the site?

 

[schematix]

This is great stuff. Mind if I ping you on the messenger if I have any specific questions about the LODO process that can't be answered on the site?

go for it.

 

[Braufessor]

I finally got around to brewing this a few weeks ago. My last several brews have been toying around with variations of BYO's Julius clone, all of which were quite good. I had high hopes for this one since I've subscribed to this thread from the beginning and it's the worst batch of beer I've ever made.

To be clear, THIS IS NO FAULT OF THE RECIPE ITSELF. This is more just me logging my thoughts about what I feel went wrong while I have some free time. If anyone reads this and would like to chime in, "Well, stupid, this is where you went wrong.", feel free.

When I say it's the worst, it's because the beer is undeniably afflicted by the often talked about "Band Aid" taste. I knew it was a thing, but have never had it happen to me. If you've never had it happen, I'll say right now, it is an unmistakable taste. This batch has been kegged for almost two weeks now and if the flavor doesn't subside, it's a dumper for sure. It's barely palatable.

On paper, brew day went off without a hitch. All targets were hit and it was a pretty uneventful day. I followed the updated grain bill in post 1418 (or whatever it is) and scaled it to my equipment.

1/2 oz Columbus @ 60
3 oz Citra 30 min. steep @ 160
2 oz. Galaxy 30 min. steep @ 160
3 oz. Citra dry hop @ day 4
2 oz. Galaxy dry hop @ day 4
1318 yeast
Mash ph 5.3
100:100 Chloride:Sulfate

I like to think I stick to my guns when it comes to procedure, sanitation and all the other things I try not to obsess about, but usually do, when it comes to brewing. However, there are some things I did on purpose and not so much on purpose that I think may have bit me in the ass.

1. The Yeast: I've been harvesting the same batch of 1318 for the last 7 brews. A vitality starter pitched in to each at high activity. This one would have been #8. Those prior 7 all finished out in 5-7 days. I would always start to ramp the temp from 67 degrees and dry hop 4 days in, as I did with this batch, kegging about 4 days after. By day 8, I still had active fermentation and it kept up in to day 12.

This is where I started to worry. I never dry hop this long and I've likely split the yeast so many times it just doesn't have anything left. This is where I place the blame on the outcome of this beer.

2. Whirlfoc: I always use it, but decided not to this time to see if it made a difference in haze, flavor, whatever. The beer is definitely murkier than any other I've made, but I don't think it contributed to the taste outcome with any significance.

3. Star San stored in serving lines: Before this brew I had cleaned all my kegs, transferred Star San from one to another via my Star San storage keg (I keep a keg pre-mixed using distilled water and change it out every few months), purging with co2, just like I always do. I cleaned all my lines with BLC, rinsed with water, then stored with Star San, like I always do. I didn't check the ph of my mix, but even if it wasn't effective, I don't see this causing an issue with the beer. Regardless, my brain won't let me use any of my other kegs or serving lines until I've cleaned them again and dosed them with a fresh batch of sanitizer.

4. Vitality Starters: I used to make starters the traditional way by calculating cells needed, mixing up the appropriate amount of wort, letting it finish out on the stir plate and pitching once it's done. It worked fine. Then I figured I'd give the vitality starter thing a try. I'm not sure why, just to try something different I guess. I'd mix up a 1000ml starter, pitch my previously harvested yeast, let it get good and angry and then pitch it in to the fermentor. It worked well. The beers were taking off in the same amount of time and tasting just fine. Did it finally backfire on me and I underpitched this particular batch? I think I underpitched due to over stressed yeast that just couldn't take it anymore and the rest of it was dead anyways.

In the future, I won't be splitting yeast more than 4-5 times. I may throw a traditional starter in the mix every once in a while. Still undecided there. I'll probably go back to Whirlfloc regardless of beer style. I don't think I did anything wrong with my Star San, but I'll probably store the keg of it inside instead of in the garage and I'll be checking it's ph before I use it each time.


That's my story. Being the first bad batch I've ever made, my pride is a little dinged up and maybe I'm questioning things that I shouldn't, but I plan to make this again so I can see what this recipe is really about.

Well, "bandaid" usually only comes from two places.

1.) Chlorine/chloramine in water..... Assuming you used RO water and assuming the RO water was good... that should not be a problem.

2.) Infection...... taking yeast through 8 generations is quite a bit at the home-brew level. I generally go about 4-5 and just don't take the chance after that. Perhaps that is a possibility.

Another thing that caught my eye - you said you leave star san in your tubing..... I have left tubing in star san over night and it gets slimy and gross as ****. Not sure if that could be a possible problem or not... seems unlikely, as it seems to be standard procedure for you and not sure why it would have affected this one batch.

Your description of "prolonged fermentation" seems to suggest the possibility of infection as a potential culprit.

 

[centrical]

When I say it's the worst, it's because the beer is undeniably afflicted by the often talked about "Band Aid" taste. I knew it was a thing, but have never had it happen to me. If you've never had it happen, I'll say right now, it is an unmistakable taste. This batch has been kegged for almost two weeks now and if the flavor doesn't subside, it's a dumper for sure. It's barely palatable.

Is this possibly the throat burning/astringent taste that I have gotten several times with 1318?

I am not sure why I get it, but I believe it's when I don't give it enough time in the fermenter before crashing/kegging, or/and if I don't give it time at a cool temp after active fermentation is over and prior to cold crashing.

I found the if I end the first week at 70 (ramped up from 66 or so), hold at 70 for a couple days, then drop back down to mid 60's for another week, it comes out clean. I have never been able to keg this within 2 weeks. If I try, I get that burning rubber taste. It usually takes 3 with the cold crash, etc.

Did you drop the temp back down for a few days after fermentation was over?

Does anyone else find the need to do this with 1318?

 

[Jmash]

Is this possibly the throat burning/astringent taste that I have gotten several times with 1318?

I am not sure why I get it, but I believe it's when I don't give it enough time in the fermenter before crashing/kegging, or/and if I don't give it time at a cool temp after active fermentation is over and prior to cold crashing.

I found the if I end the first week at 70 (ramped up from 66 or so), hold at 70 for a couple days, then drop back down to mid 60's for another week, it comes out clean. I have never been able to keg this within 2 weeks. If I try, I get that burning rubber taste. It usually takes 3 with the cold crash, etc.

Did you drop the temp back down for a few days after fermentation was over?

Does anyone else find the need to do this with 1318?

I always use 1318 and never drop the temp back down. I haven't had a problem. Your under two weeks comment worries me. I'm going on vacation Friday and I have a batch which normally would be ready for kegging on Saturday. I was going to do second dryhop in the dryhop keg tomorrow (day 9) and transfer to serving keg/force carb Thursday night.
I'm wondering if I should cold crash it for a week and then force carb it when I get back.