New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[BongoYodeler]

Ha.... that is a sad state of affairs when someone from central iowa has to tell me about DDH Sue Been super busy and had not seen that, so glad you mentioned it - will be in Decorah to get some on Friday for sure. I actually like DDH Sue more than King Sue.... all the hops, less of the alcohol. Drink more

But, yes..... I do have a constant flow of Pulpit and TG 10 minutes and I am at either place. Pulpit Rock has been putting out some great stuff.... I am a big fan of Saftig. Loopy Lynn and some of their other DIPA's have been great as well.

Just had a bomber of Pompeii and a bomber of Sue tonight as a matter of fact. Got some King Sue, Sosus and Hop Smack in the fridge as well.

My son and I stopped at TGB last month when I went out for a visit. The pint of Sosus I had was simply incredible. Unfortunately they didn't have any bottles of it available.

 

[lilbova3]

Very timely post for me. I have been thinking similar things to you. Based upon some IPAs I have been drinking that have carapils and crystal malt in them, I would say they have more body than any of the 20% flaked oats NE IPAs I have brewed. I have two I am tasting side by side now.



My next NE IPA will be 80% base (probably Golden Promise), 10% crystal 10L and 10% carapils. I think it is going to have more body than my oats versions; I hope so at least. It's just a refinement though really, the oats with basemalt version is really great too.

My next NE style is going to have 10% Carapils, also 15% Flaked and 2% Honey Malt. I've been going as high as 30% with flaked and 5% Carapils, and while it is good, I still want more mouthfeel. A softer, rounder, thickness to it. I think 10% Carapils maybe more will help get that. Great thing about Carapils is it doesn't add flavor or color. I'm really thinking this idea of higher Carapils might be on to something.

 

[stickyfinger]

My next NE style is going to have 10% Carapils, also 15% Flaked and 2% Honey Malt. I've been going as high as 30% with flaked and 5% Carapils, and while it is good, I still want more mouthfeel. A softer, rounder, thickness to it. I think 10% Carapils maybe more will help get that. Great thing about Carapils is it doesn't add flavor or color. I'm really thinking this idea of higher Carapils might be on to something.

I've noticed that a lot of the "classic" brewers use a lot of carapils and wheat malt in a lot beers. i think the wheat malt is maybe a red herring, but they were onto something with the carapils. the trick is to get the full mouthfeel without the caramely flavors (or too much) so i think the low lovibond caramel may be good. It may be possible to just add more and more carapils though too. lots of room for experimentation here. my beers always seem to taste so dry, so i'm not afraid to load in more crystal or carapils. a friend says i have coined a new beer, the DRY-PA. ha ha.

I've been addicted to these NE IPAs though since starting to brew them. I love them so much. It's mostly what I want to brew now, along with some rich dark beers and a few lagers!

 

[EndOfLine]

I've noticed that a lot of the "classic" brewers use a lot of carapils and wheat malt in a lot beers. i think the wheat malt is maybe a red herring, but they were onto something with the carapils. the trick is to get the full mouthfeel without the caramely flavors (or too much) so i think the low lovibond caramel may be good. It may be possible to just add more and more carapils though too. lots of room for experimentation here. my beers always seem to taste so dry, so i'm not afraid to load in more crystal or carapils. a friend says i have coined a new beer, the DRY-PA. ha ha.

I've been addicted to these NE IPAs though since starting to brew them. I love them so much. It's mostly what I want to brew now, along with some rich dark beers and a few lagers!

Dry PA lol..... What are your final gravities?

 

[stickyfinger]

Dry PA lol..... What are your final gravities?

Actually, you won't be impressed. The vast mash-temperature-industrial complex purports that low mash temps are needed for dry beer. I say BS! My latest NE IPA was a single infusion at 165F, yes, 165F for 1 hr. The OG was 1.059 and the FG 1.017, for ~71% AA. I am a firm believer that if you ferment out the simple sugars in a wort, the beer will taste dry. In addition, gypsum additions are much more important than FG (provided the simple sugars have been eaten.)

My beers tend to taste pretty dry though. I almost think it is easier to produce a dry beer with higher mash temps, as the yeast have fewer sugars that they have to eat for a given OG. Call me crazy.

I try to mash high so that I can reduce the alcohol level while keeping more of the malt flavor in the beer. I can produce 5% alcohol beers from 1.060 beers with this method, which is great for me and doesn't seem to result in any sweetness whatsoever.

 

[jammin]

Actually, you won't be impressed. The vast mash-temperature-industrial complex purports that low mash temps are needed for dry beer. I say BS! My latest NE IPA was a single infusion at 165F, yes, 165F for 1 hr. The OG was 1.059 and the FG 1.017, for ~71% AA. I am a firm believer that if you ferment out the simple sugars in a wort, the beer will taste dry. In addition, gypsum additions are much more important than FG (provided the simple sugars have been eaten.)

My beers tend to taste pretty dry though. I almost think it is easier to produce a dry beer with higher mash temps, as the yeast have fewer sugars that they have to eat for a given OG. Call me crazy.

I try to mash high so that I can reduce the alcohol level while keeping more of the malt flavor in the beer. I can produce 5% alcohol beers from 1.060 beers with this method, which is great for me and doesn't seem to result in any sweetness whatsoever.

The late, great Stone Levitation Ale purportedly had a remarkably high mash temp & short duration. IMHO, for a small IPA it had great body with a very nimble & crisp finish. I'd pay good money for a tutorial on their technique

 

[jcglezen]

Taking my first go at this style. Thanks Brau and others who have contributed to this thread! For the grist, went with the updated version on post #1418, but for water chemistry kept the higher chloride profile from the OP. Local HBS did not have 1318 or conan, so went with Imperial Yeast "A24 - Dryhop". Anybody have experience with this yeast in this style?

I am at day 5, light krausen, has dropped from 1.065 to 1.020. Hydro sample tastes really good. Using CMG combo in equal amounts for each of the four additions. Excited to get this into the keg!! -Cheers

 

[grassfeeder]

Taking my first go at this style. Thanks Brau and others who have contributed to this thread! For the grist, went with the updated version on post #1418, but for water chemistry kept the higher chloride profile from the OP. Local HBS did not have 1318 or conan, so went with Imperial Yeast "A24 - Dryhop". Anybody have experience with this yeast in this style?

I am at day 5, light krausen, has dropped from 1.065 to 1.020. Hydro sample tastes really good. Using CMG combo in equal amounts for each of the four additions. Excited to get this into the keg!! -Cheers

Just picked up this very yeast today and will be brewing a session-able style NEIPA on Monday using all Citra and adding zero bittering hops. 4.16%

 

[jakturner]

I've been using this thread as a basic guideline and have landed on Cl and SO4 both around 120 to 140 to be my sweet spot with the .25 honey malt with around 30% flaked grains mostly with Conan, but I wanted to ask with it being that time of year I've been seeing hop hash for sale, anyone ever use it and would it work good in a beer like this?

 

[dfborn]

Having my first glass of this. So. Effin. Good.

 

[EMH5]

I have brewed 4-5 versions of this recipe with slight tweaks and now I have the base I like best:

6# GP
6# 2-row
1# white wheat
.75# Golden Naked Oats
.75# flaked barley
.5# flaked wheat

1318 yeast

Attached is my latest Citra Centennial IPA.
Thanks Braufessor for starting this thread. I never would have added Oats or golden promise.

 

[stickyfinger]

OK, I have a new iteration of my NE IPA,

80% pearl malt
10% carapils
5% crystal 10L
5% crystal 20L
150 ppm Cl and 15 ppm SO4
20 IBUs in kettle
all dry hops during day 3, today!

help me decide what to do for the dry hop!! I need to do it today so let me know if you have a strong opinion! I have 10 gallons, and I am doing half with the citra/mosaic/galaxy in equal parts. I don't know what to do with the other half. i was thinking 100% galaxy or 1:1 citra:galaxy or citra:simcoe:columbus with maybe 5:5:2 ratio. just want something new that will be danker but delicious. plan to add 12 oz to each of my batches.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

OK, I have a new iteration of my NE IPA,

80% pearl malt
10% carapils
5% crystal 10L
5% crystal 20L
150 ppm Cl and 15 ppm SO4
20 IBUs in kettle
all dry hops during day 3, today!

help me decide what to do for the dry hop!! I need to do it today so let me know if you have a strong opinion! I have 10 gallons, and I am doing half with the citra/mosaic/galaxy in equal parts. I don't know what to do with the other half. i was thinking 100% galaxy or 1:1 citra:galaxy or citra:simcoe:columbus with maybe 5:5:2 ratio. just want something new that will be danker but delicious. plan to add 12 oz to each of my batches.

In my experience galaxy doesn't dry-hop well. I would go 1:1 Citra/Mosaic or maybe Columbus if you have a really dank batch.

 

[stickyfinger]

what?! the citra-mosaic-galaxy was bomb! the citra-mosaic i did last time was great too.

 

[stickyfinger]

Drinking my 4th iteration of this beer right now.

I was inspired by a few Trillium beers I had, which I knew used Columbus. They have such an interesting earthy, herbal, dank quality that not only works with but enhances the tropical fruit flavors. To move in that direction, I basically subbed Galaxy for equal parts Simcoe/Columbus

So this time I went with Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe/Columbus (2:2:1:1) for all four additions and bittered with Columbus. I think this is my favorite NEIPA I've made so far (if not tied with the original recipe), mostly peach & mango, a hint of melon and a little pine & earthy dank to balance things out. For what I was going for, I'm pretty damn happy with the results.

And for those interested, so far I've also brewed:
100% Citra (super delicious, just not as interesting as the original)
100% Nelson (not bad, but too much harsh earthiness. took a lot of mellowing out before it was really drinkinable - needs to paired with fruitier hops)

As for next time... I still really want to try 100% Mosaic and 100% Galaxy versions, if only to learn more about those hop profiles. But I think I want to continue down the dank & fruity road and try more combos with Columbus. I'm also curious about some varieties I haven't touched at all yet like Azacca, Apollo, Equinox, Galena and El Dorado.

just saw this post on citra-mosaic-simcoe-columbus. looks good to me. i might do 2 2 1 1 citra simcoe mosaic columbus though

 

[Braufessor]

OK, I have a new iteration of my NE IPA,

80% pearl malt
10% carapils
5% crystal 10L
5% crystal 20L
150 ppm Cl and 15 ppm SO4
20 IBUs in kettle
all dry hops during day 3, today!

help me decide what to do for the dry hop!! I need to do it today so let me know if you have a strong opinion! I have 10 gallons, and I am doing half with the citra/mosaic/galaxy in equal parts. I don't know what to do with the other half. i was thinking 100% galaxy or 1:1 citra:galaxy or citra:simcoe:columbus with maybe 5:5:2 ratio. just want something new that will be danker but delicious. plan to add 12 oz to each of my batches.

If you have not done it yet, I would recommend 1:1 Citra:Galaxy...... I just put a batch into serving keg and another of the same into dry hop keg. Love it.

 

[Braufessor]

The latest.... citra/galaxy.

 

[stickyfinger]

If you have not done it yet, I would recommend 1:1 Citra:Galaxy...... I just put a batch into serving keg and another of the same into dry hop keg. Love it.

I had been thinking about that too. Maybe I'll try one of that and one with the citra-simcoe-mosaic-columbus or just citra-simcoe-columbus

 

[cheesebach]

If you have not done it yet, I would recommend 1:1 Citra:Galaxy...... I just put a batch into serving keg and another of the same into dry hop keg. Love it.

I saw your suggestion just before brewing this beer for the 1st time, and it certainly didn't disappoint. I hadn't realized how much I like galaxy hops before this batch - it's definitely got a good dose of passion fruit going on in the nose that I love, which I assume is from the galaxy since I haven't noticed it citra-only hopped beers before.

On a side note, this didn't come out nearly as cloudy as I was expecting. Have you ever noticed any differences in appearance due to adjusting the Cl/SO4 ratio? I used RO water and targeted both to 120ppm for a 1:1 ratio. I'm guessing its gotta be either due to water chemistry or mash ph. I was targeting 5.4 mash pH, but it came in at 5.25. Also, I used WLP095 yeast, which seems like it may either be conan or another mystery IPA yeast sourced from somewhere in the northeast.

No complaints about the other aspects of the beer though - this may be my favorite beer I've brewed yet. But its definitely more of a hop haze similar to other APAs/IPAs I've made than the juice-like cloudiness I was expecting. I'll see if I can post a picture of it when I get home tonight.

 

[mintyice]

I saw your suggestion just before brewing this beer for the 1st time, and it certainly didn't disappoint. I hadn't realized how much I like galaxy hops before this batch - it's definitely got a good dose of passion fruit going on in the nose that I love, which I assume is from the galaxy since I haven't noticed it citra-only hopped beers before.

On a side note, this didn't come out nearly as cloudy as I was expecting. Have you ever noticed any differences in appearance due to adjusting the Cl/SO4 ratio? I used RO water and targeted both to 120ppm for a 1:1 ratio. I'm guessing its gotta be either due to water chemistry or mash ph. I was targeting 5.4 mash pH, but it came in at 5.25. Also, I used WLP095 yeast, which seems like it may either be conan or another mystery IPA yeast sourced from somewhere in the northeast.

No complaints about the other aspects of the beer though - this may be my favorite beer I've brewed yet. But its definitely more of a hop haze similar to other APAs/IPAs I've made than the juice-like cloudiness I was expecting. I'll see if I can post a picture of it when I get home tonight.

WLP095 I think is Magic Hat's yeast. If you want the haze, go 1318 or Conan.

 

[stickyfinger]

wlp095 will produce a hazy beer. the hops are more important than yeast anyway

 

[mintyice]

wlp095 will produce a hazy beer. the hops are more important than yeast anyway

and yeast is more important than chloride/sulfate ratios

Don't underestimate yeast choice though. This style didn't fully click for me until I switched from 1217 to 1318, but that's just my preference as I try to emulate TH's IPAs.

 

[stickyfinger]

and yeast is more important than chloride/sulfate ratios

Don't underestimate yeast choice though. This style didn't fully click for me until I switched from 1217 to 1318, but that's just my preference as I try to emulate TH's IPAs.

I'm by no means an expert on yeast choice in this style. A few things I know: WLP095 will produce an excellent, round flavor in this style with plenty of haze. It slowly drops clear, but the enormous hopping makes the beer very hazy for at least 6 weeks. US-05 produces too dry, crisp and punchy of a flavor in this style for my taste. I've also had problems with it producing diacetyl after dry hopping and kegging and will not use it again.

I have my first double batch going with Giga Yeast Vermont IPA. If I don't prefer it to the WLP095, I'll just stick with that, as it is easier to get and is at likely better in quality (or at least as good) since it comes from White Labs. Not getting much fruitiness so far from the GY in the fermentation space aromas.

 

[hopbrad]

I'm by no means an expert on yeast choice in this style. A few things I know: WLP095 will produce an excellent, round flavor in this style with plenty of haze. It slowly drops clear, but the enormous hopping makes the beer very hazy for at least 6 weeks. US-05 produces too dry, crisp and punchy of a flavor in this style for my taste. I've also had problems with it producing diacetyl after dry hopping and kegging and will not use it again.

I have my first double batch going with Giga Yeast Vermont IPA. If I don't prefer it to the WLP095, I'll just stick with that, as it is easier to get and is at likely better in quality (or at least as good) since it comes from White Labs. Not getting much fruitiness so far from the GY in the fermentation space aromas.

Conan gets more fruity each generation. I liked generation 2-4 the best. If you want fruity, then make sure to harvest it. better attenuation too.

 

[grassfeeder]

check out some of the yeasts from Imperial. A24 Dryhop is going in mine tomorrow. Last batch had Barbarian (Conan) and had great results. I've also used WLP007 as well - never not had a great hazy beer and I've never had a beer drop out either.

 

[Braufessor]

Personally, I think yeast has very little to do with "haze"..... I have been using 1056 lately and it is just as hazy as conan.... and 1272, and 007, and every other yeast I have used to be honest. Still waiting to try a yeast in these beers that does not leave it hazy.

In my opinion, if yeast is making your beer "hazy" it isn't "hazy" - it is murky.

That said, I have not used 095 - so can't comment on that specifically. I think that low pH is the more likely explanation of your beer being clearer. I think there is something to the low pH and clear beer.

Likewise - it is not Sulfate:Chloride ratio either. The picture I put up a few posts ago is a beer with 140 sulfate: 70 Chloride and it was brewed with 1056 yeast.

Hazy comes predominately from interaction of lots of hops late/post boil/low temp hopping plus hopping in primary. I just have seen no evidence that it really has anything specifically to do with yeast, sulfate/chloride or (with Brulosophy's latest experiment) flaked grains.

There are really only 2 potential contributors left in my opinion:
* The late/dry hopping interactions
* Slightly higher than normal pH (5.4 ish boil, 4.5-4.6 post fermentation)

 

[stickyfinger]

Conan gets more fruity each generation. I liked generation 2-4 the best. If you want fruity, then make sure to harvest it. better attenuation too.

I'll keep re-using it. Does growing it up in a starter count as a generation though? I harvest yeast from my starters as opposed to the fermentor.

 

[stickyfinger]

Personally, I think yeast has very little to do with "haze"..... I have been using 1056 lately and it is just as hazy as conan.... and 1272, and 007, and every other yeast I have used to be honest. Still waiting to try a yeast in these beers that does not leave it hazy.

In my opinion, if yeast is making your beer "hazy" it isn't "hazy" - it is murky.

That said, I have not used 095 - so can't comment on that specifically. I think that low pH is the more likely explanation of your beer being clearer. I think there is something to the low pH and clear beer.

Likewise - it is not Sulfate:Chloride ratio either. The picture I put up a few posts ago is a beer with 140 sulfate: 70 Chloride and it was brewed with 1056 yeast.

Hazy comes predominately from interaction of lots of hops late/post boil/low temp hopping plus hopping in primary. I just have seen no evidence that it really has anything specifically to do with yeast, sulfate/chloride or (with Brulosophy's latest experiment) flaked grains.

There are really only 2 potential contributors left in my opinion:
* The late/dry hopping interactions
* Slightly higher than normal pH (5.4 ish boil, 4.5-4.6 post fermentation)

This makes a lot of sense to me. When I first keg, the beers are somewhat murky due to the yeast and somehop particles even. Over time, you can see the beers clearing ever so slightly so that you can maybe just see through the glass if you look carefully. That must be the yeast cloudiness slowly dissipating as it drops out and the remaining hop-induced-haze remaining.

I hadn't looked at pH too much. Have you compared higher and lower pHs in these beers, or did you just settle on a higher pH and make every beer that way?

 

[Braufessor]

This makes a lot of sense to me. When I first keg, the beers are somewhat murky due to the yeast and somehop particles even. Over time, you can see the beers clearing ever so slightly so that you can maybe just see through the glass if you look carefully. That must be the yeast cloudiness slowly dissipating as it drops out and the remaining hop-induced-haze remaining.

I hadn't looked at pH too much. Have you compared higher and lower pHs in these beers, or did you just settle on a higher pH and make every beer that way?

I have been targeting 5.4 ish simply because that is a number I see recommended often from professional brewers in regard to hoppy beers. Also see information from beers from time to time as well about higher finishing pH's in these beers.

One of the very first things I noticed when I started brewing NE IPA's and targeting 5.4 instead of 5.25-5.3 is that my kettle wort did not drop clear at the end of the boil. These beers are hazy at flame out for me. They are hazy after chilling, they are hazy in the hydrometer - that obviously has nothing to do with yeast or dry hopping. There are only three possible variables that are really at play at this point (before the beer ever even hits the fermenter):
1.) Flaked grains (which Brulosophy's recent experiment seems to discount)
2.) Lots of late hops at sub 170 temps
3.) Higher finishing pH

Other beers that I brew, even with similar grain bills, targeting 5.25-5.3 type pH..... The wort post boil, during chilling drops clear..... really clear. You can read a newspaper through the wort I put in the hydrometer in a "normal" beer. These beers do not do that - they stay very hazy in hydrometer and they do not drop clear - even if I let the sample sit there for a day or two. So, in my experience, it seems like something is already going on at this point in the process that is producing haziness as a byproduct of the process.

Right now, I have several experimental batches going. Maybe for my next batches I will brew two and acidify one to 5.2 and leave the other at my normal 5.4-5.45 range and see if that makes a difference.

I also wonder about the potential for different hops???? Do the hops we focus on (Citra, Simcoe, Columbus, Galaxy, Mosaic......) have oil compositions that play into the production of these polyphenols more than say your traditional IPA hops (Chinook, Cascade, Centennial, etc.)????

At the end of the day though, I think it is important to come back to the fact that the "goal" of these beers is NOT to make them hazy. The goal is that they taste great..... and, for whatever reason - it seems that haziness is an attribute that comes along with the flavors we are chasing. I am mainly just curious as to why that is exactly.

 

[MFerBrew]

I've made this recipe twice now and it has quickly become a favorite.

Question...I just scored some cheap hops. Azacca, Centennial, Summit and Cascade. Do you think any combination of these would work well as a hop substitute? I figured I love the base beer so much, might as well experiment with these bulk hops.