New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Ulisses4677]

I have roughly 5 troon beers (some where beer shares) and then maybe 3-4 collabs brewed elsewhere. And I agree with you, nothing has been a banger. Nothing has been awful but all hoppys that I’ve had from then were Very green, vegetal in character, with quite a bit of hop burn.

In my opinion, fidens is pumping out the smoothest and brightest hoppy beers right now. I like that they still primarily use t90 versus products and I think the overall hoppiness is benefited by it. I was just there for lunch on Saturday and brought some cans home and this latest batch of vegan is a banger View attachment 858475

Fidens is on another level right now. The state of New York is killing the northeast ipa game.

 

[anteater8]

I have roughly 5 troon beers (some where beer shares) and then maybe 3-4 collabs brewed elsewhere. And I agree with you, nothing has been a banger. Nothing has been awful but all hoppys that I’ve had from then were Very green, vegetal in character, with quite a bit of hop burn.

In my opinion, fidens is pumping out the smoothest and brightest hoppy beers right now. I like that they still primarily use t90 versus products and I think the overall hoppiness is benefited by it. I was just there for lunch on Saturday and brought some cans home and this latest batch of vegan is a banger View attachment 858475

Just an anecdote, but I was able to drink some Fiden's (DDH Eugene's Axe) and Brujos (FH Hails) side by side at Brujos the other day. Both were absolutely world class, but Brujos had way more flavor and aroma. Not saying it was better, I could argue that Fiden's had a better overall balance, but anyway it was cool to try two of the best in one sitting.

 

[DevilsCups]

In my opinion, fidens is pumping out the smoothest and brightest hoppy beers right now.

You think they're still using 1272? I remember you mentioning that a bit ago. We brewed a collab with them a few years back up in Albany and I think we used 1318 at that time. The only other collabs we did were at the location I used to be at, and those were definitely 1318 (but at our facility).

I'd like to give it a shot at home, but I'm hesitant.

 

[Dgallo]

Just an anecdote, but I was able to drink some Fiden's (DDH Eugene's Axe) and Brujos (FH Hails) side by side at Brujos the other day. Both were absolutely world class, but Brujos had way more flavor and aroma. Not saying it was better, I could argue that Fiden's had a better overall balance, but anyway it was cool to try two of the best in one sitting.

Wondering if heat during shipping had anything to do with it. That said. I had the DDH NM4NM and for being a DDH it was underwhelming so maybe it was the same for axe.

Haven’t really been trading beer much recently, so I haven’t been able to try anything new west coast hazies.

 

[Dgallo]

You think they're still using 1272? I remember you mentioning that a bit ago. We brewed a collab with them a few years back up in Albany and I think we used 1318 at that time. The only other collabs we did were at the location I used to be at, and those were definitely 1318 (but at our facility).

I'd like to give it a shot at home, but I'm hesitant.

This is a message between Steve and I. This is all I know about their yeast

 

[DevilsCups]

Interesting! I guess I'm just to the point where I'll throw caution to the wind and see how it turns out.

 

[tracer bullet]

I was going to start my post also with "Interesting!".

1272 is my go-to for Pale Ales, I've tried a few things but never that for the hazy's. I settled (prized?) on the 1272 for what I got as citrus from it, and it goes great with Centennial and also Cascade. I'll have to think about it for my next hazy as well it seems.

 

[Ulisses4677]

This is a message between Steve and I. This is all I know about their yeast View attachment 858484

That’s rad.

 

[Dgallo]

That’s rad.

Thanks. Steve’s been a great resource. Super nice guy

 

[balrog]

I was going to start my post also with "Interesting!".

1272 is my go-to for Pale Ales, I've tried a few things but never that for the hazy's. I settled (prized?) on the 1272 for what I got as citrus from it, and it goes great with Centennial and also Cascade. I'll have to think about it for my next hazy as well it seems.

I used it in pales and cream ales and always had a tanginess/tartness that bothered me; admittedly with more American hops, it would blend in.

 

[aaronm13]

This is a message between Steve and I. This is all I know about their yeast View attachment 858484

Thanks for that, love brewer's who are open about these things. I kegged my newest IPA over the weekend that used 1272 for the first time and early tasting is very promising.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Rhere has been recent identification of "haze positive" strains. What about Wyeast 1272? While I have mostly used more typical Hazy IPA strains for the past several years (and my process and recipes have evolved) early on I had some batched with WLP013, S-04, and US-05 that started to drop clear-ish after 3 weeks in the keg. As the haze cleared, the hop flavors faded. Does Wyeast 1272 produce a stable haze?

 

[aaronm13]

Rhere has been recent identification of "haze positive" strains. What about Wyeast 1272? While I have mostly used more typical Hazy IPA strains for the past several years (and my process and recipes have evolved) early on I had some batched with WLP013, S-04, and US-05 that started to drop clear-ish after 3 weeks in the keg. As the haze cleared, the hop flavors faded. Does Wyeast 1272 produce a stable haze?

According to Steve in The CB&B video it does. He said they've opened cans 6 months after packaging and are still as hazy. Time will tell with mine.

 

[couchsending]

Has anyone ever pitched wort onto a previous dry hop? I have a very clean dry hop from a previous beer that was in contact for 48 hours (cali ipa) and I'm considering pitching my hazy wort straight onto it like a day 1 dry hop. I'm tempted to experiment and take one for the team.

I'll be able to drop out the yeast and hops after fermentation. My thoughts are it will add a lot of depth to the beer and then I can finish it off with 1 hop (nectaron) and still have a lot of complexity... Anyone ever tried this?

Previous dry hop was idaho 7, citra, nectaron & galaxy...

Did you end up trying this? I’ve wanted to explore this for a few years now but have never gotten around to doing it. I’ve found a few articles with mention of it but that’s about it.

Flavor and aroma extraction from hops is very low so in theory there should be a lot more left in those hops we dry hop with. I’d think that if you had removed as much yeast as possible before DH in the first batch and maybe even dump the first stuff that settles there should be no issue. After you pitch the second beer I wouldn’t wait until the end of fermentation to start dumping hops. It probably wouldn’t hurt to start dumping 24-36 hours into fermentation depending on activity and could be better for overall yeast health and fermentation.

I think in an ideal world you’d want to pitch a larger beer onto a dry hop from something smaller but maybe not super critical. I’ve even thought of doing a closed transfer of the spent DH into another vessel and knocking out onto that instead of going into the same vessel. Or even transferring them into a brink of sorts and then shooting that into another tank.

 

[Dgallo]

Did you end up trying this? I’ve wanted to explore this for a few years now but have never gotten around to doing it. I’ve found a few articles with mention of it but that’s about it.

Flavor and aroma extraction from hops is very low so in theory there should be a lot more left in those hops we dry hop with. I’d think that if you had removed as much yeast as possible before DH in the first batch and maybe even dump the first stuff that settles there should be no issue. After you pitch the second beer I wouldn’t wait until the end of fermentation to start dumping hops. It probably wouldn’t hurt to start dumping 24-36 hours into fermentation depending on activity and could be better for overall yeast health and fermentation.

I think in an ideal world you’d want to pitch a larger beer onto a dry hop from something smaller but maybe not super critical. I’ve even thought of doing a closed transfer of the spent DH into another vessel and knocking out onto that instead of going into the same vessel. Or even transferring them into a brink of sorts and then shooting that into another tank.

Im pretty sure I read a few years back that wayfinder (or someone PNW) was doing this. But if I recall correctly they were utilizing their previous Dryhop load into their next beers whirlpool. Which seems like it might be a little more practical with far less risk.

 

[couchsending]

Not sure there's really any more risk than adding incognito at knockout or dry hopping on day 1. Putting a beer into the same tank without cleaning it
first might not be the best but I doubt there's much in that tank that would have a negative impact if everything is kept sanitary and is kept under some positive pressure. I wouldn't repitch the yeast from a batch where I did this but that's how we treat any beer that's been dry hopped before yeast has been removed.

I found the article. There are three breweries in the article using spent dry hops again in another dry hop. Bosque, Forest & Main, Black Narrows. It's
a Craft Beer & Brewing article. If you search Recycle Hops it should be easy to find.

 

[Dgallo]

Not sure there's really any more risk than adding incognito at knockout or dry hopping on day 1. Putting a beer into the same tank without cleaning it
first might not be the best but I doubt there's much in that tank that would have a negative impact if everything is kept sanitary and is kept under some positive pressure. I wouldn't repitch the yeast from a batch where I did this but that's how we treat any beer that's been dry hopped before yeast has been removed.

I found the article. There are three breweries in the article using spent dry hops again in another dry hop. Bosque, Forest & Main, Black Narrows. It's
a Craft Beer & Brewing article. If you search Recycle Hops it should be easy to find.

absolutely. A brewery/hber with sound practices and sanitation wouldn’t have an issue. But they understand the potential risk and have therefore put in practices to minimize/negate the risk. As I’m sure you know, not every brewery is solid in those department and that is why I said using those previous run dryhops in the whirlpool would Minimize the risk

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I would likely not do this, but the thought of saving some of the copious amount of hops we use is appealing ... I wonder how you would calculate utilization or oil content. So if you dry hopped at 5lb per barrel and then used that entire dry hop in the next batch for whirlpool, would you assume maybe half of what those hops had would still be available leaving you with an equivalent of 2.5lb per barrel for said whirlpool, or would it be less, like 25% .. I know when I dump trub before kegging I'm like, dang these smell awesome, sucks to dump them in the garbage... so clearly one would think they could be used to a certain extent.

 

[Fergal]

I did go for it. I went straight into the fermenter from the previous beer. I had given the previous beer a prolonged crash before dry hopping so less yeast than usual. I also managed to siphon off all the beer and then dumped a bit out of the bottom, I ended up with Approx 2L of hops to begin with. I brewed a slightly bigger batch than usual - 26L aiming for 18 - 19 into the keg. I didn't drop any hops during the fermentation but wish I had done in hindsight. The beer was green for a while and the aroma is pretty spectacular. The ferment is just finishing up now so I'm going to attempt to drop as much solid matter as possible before dry hop. Will keep you updated...

 

[Dgallo]

I would likely not do this, but the thought of saving some of the copious amount of hops we use is appealing ... I wonder how you would calculate utilization or oil content. So if you dry hopped at 5lb per barrel and then used that entire dry hop in the next batch for whirlpool, would you assume maybe half of what those hops had would still be available leaving you with an equivalent of 2.5lb per barrel for said whirlpool, or would it be less, like 25% .. I know when I dump trub before kegging I'm like, dang these smell awesome, sucks to dump them in the garbage... so clearly one would think they could be used to a certain extent.

I can’t even to begin to give any science behind/about it.

If I were to try the whirlpool after a dryhop, I’d scrape the top off where there might be excess yeast. Then use the middle portions of the hop cake. Maybe say I’m using 60-70-% of original volume of hops (Might be generous, have no idea) and would probably count it as 1/2 of the calculated ibus i’d get from that size of a whirlpool with fresh hops

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I can’t even to begin to give any science it.

If I were to try the whirlpool after a dryhop, I’d scrap the top off that would have excess yeast. Then use the middle portion so might say I’m using 60-70-% of original volume. (Might be generous, have no idea) and count it as 1/2 of the calculated ibus you’d get from that size of a whirlpool with fresh hops

Sure that makes sense, I have a conical so I feel as though I get rid of most yeast before dryhopping, but still some is there, take the best of what's left and use that.. it's an interesting theory, I'd have to do a small batch to try it, I could take a clean dump (doesn't sound clean at all haha) from my 15gal conical and use what looks best for the whirlpool of a 5 gallon batch... almost like when you harvest yeast, you get rid of the first bit, keep the middle and leave the rest behind. The wheels are turning brother...

 

[Dgallo]

Sure that makes sense, I have a conical so I feel as though I get rid of most yeast before dryhopping, but still some is there, take the best of what's left and use that.. it's an interesting theory, I'd have to do a small batch to try it, I could take a clean dump (doesn't sound clean at all haha) from my 15gal conical and use what looks best for the whirlpool of a 5 gallon batch... almost like when you harvest yeast, you get rid of the first bit, keep the middle and leave the rest behind. The wheels are turning brother...

I’d be interested in your outcome. I def could see it working in theory at least and as long as I time up my brew days, it would work well

 

[Fergal]

Here's the article couch sending mentioned: https://beerandbrewing.com/elements-of-beer-recycling-hops-in-the-brewhouse/

A starting point for whirlpool utilisation:

 

[Dgallo]

Here's the article couch sending mentioned: https://beerandbrewing.com/elements-of-beer-recycling-hops-in-the-brewhouse/

A starting point for whirlpool utilisation:

View attachment 858617

sounds like hotside would give you more bang for your buck

 

[Bobby_M]

Dgallo pretty much summed up what I disagree with in relation to the styles. I don't agree with the mouthfeel section as a creamy mouthfeel is acceptable and pretty much a given in higher end examples of this style, i.e. Fidens, Equilibrium, Verdant etc. Verdant's yeast even states it leaves a creamy mouthfeel.

Flavor section only mentions fruity or tropical hops but newer hops are bringing so much more, Stratsa for example is very dank and the New Zealand hops bring so much more complexity than just straight up fruit.

I also don't fully agree with appearance as cloudy/ murky is also pretty common in great examples. If this is as you say to prevent milkshake IPAs from dominating this leads to another argument that milkshake IPA needs it's own category or should probably be entered in speciality IPA. This is on the brewer to enter the beer in the correct category.

I understand there has to be a guideline to follow or it just becomes a beauty contest but marking people down for very acceptable characteristics especially if the judge isn't overly familiar with the style shows a flaw in the guidelines to me.

In fairness to BJCP, the guidelines often lag behind fast moving and evolving styles primarily because edits take a while and judge training and testing is anchored to a specific edition of the guidelines and it's hard to study when the source material changes out from under you.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My latest hazy turned out quite nice and probably one of my better batches. I ended up going with:

• Idaho-7 and Mosaic on the hotside (1 oz at 5 min, 4 oz at 180F for 20 min)
• Idaho-7, Mosaic and El Dorado in the dry hop (8 oz total)
• Grain Bill: 71% 2-Row, 7% Light Munich, 11% Malted Wheat, 11% Flaked Oats.
• Yeast: Imperial Juice
• OG: 1.067
• FG: 1.018
• ABV: 6.5%

It is probably more similar to a Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing as far as hop intensity and mouthfeel than one from a big name hazy brewery, but that is where I like my beers. I still have a lot of hops in the freezer to use up, so I hope to focus on making several batches of hoppy beers over the next 6 months. My girlfriend likes the thick, hop saturated, Hazy Double IPAs, so maybe I will have to try for something like that at some point.

• 

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I’d be interested in your outcome. I def could see it working in theory at least and as long as I time up my brew days, it would work well

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more then their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

 

[balrog]

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more then their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

My immediate thought is that hops are considered by some calculators of water usage (this this one), that hops absorb 0.040 gal of water per oz of hops. You could simply add that much water weight to the hops used. Mebee.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more than their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

I wouldn’t even think about the wet weight. It’s from absorption of wort, it’s not like it’s now more hops. So say your dryhop was 10 oz and you know your only getting 50%, so I would factor them in as the are 5 oz.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Got it, well who knows, I'll be brewing a big batch in the next couple weeks so maybe I'll plan a small test batch 3 weeks later, if things work out.