FoundersBrew
Well-Known Member
There was a thread on here a few weeks ago which someone posted a water report for the Dallas area, but I can't find it. Does anyone remember who that was?
North Texas Water
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FoundersBrew
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Thanks for the link. I read through the reports and I'm still kind of in the dark on the whole issue. What did you end up doing? Do you use the tap and treat it somehow? Filter ? I know there is a ton of discussion on this, but still seems really vague! It would be nice to solve this issue for the north Texas brewers. Ten bucks a brew-day for spring water is a little much.
Here is your water report - I'm pretty sure Rockwall has a different h20 source than Dallas.
https://www.aquaamerica.com/WaterQualityReports/2010/TX1990011.pdf
My water (shady shores - different water source I think) is awesome and makes good beer http://lcmua.com/images/commonImages/downloads/2009_Water_Quality.pdf
https://www.aquaamerica.com/WaterQualityReports/2010/TX1990011.pdf
My water (shady shores - different water source I think) is awesome and makes good beer http://lcmua.com/images/commonImages/downloads/2009_Water_Quality.pdf
Your water in Rockwall comes from the North Texas Municipal Water District just like mine (I'm in Richardson). You can get the latest report from their web-site (link in the earlier thread linked to above). I'm still trying to get a handle on this myself - I have only done a few brews since I started all-grain, but I brewed a pale ale with 3/4 tap water and 1/4 distilled with some mineral additions and a dry stout and an ESB with straight tap water with mineral additions. In all cases, I filtered the tap water slowly through a charcoal filter like this one:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/water-filter-setup-29145/
then added potassium metabisulfite powder at a rate of 700 mg per 20 gallons to remove the chloramine. At this point I used an aquarium GH/KH test kit to check that the hardness and alkalinity were reasonably close to the NTMWD report
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=At_home_water_testing
then adjusted for the dilution in the case of the pale ale, and then added minerals based on one of the spreadsheets (I think I used EZ Water 2.0 for the first two and Bru'n Water for the last one.) See the Water Chemistry Primer thread for a guide on mineral additions:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
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FoundersBrew
Well-Known Member
Yes, according to the chart, the max level of chloramine for Rockwall, was 2.6 ppm. The Dallas chart reads a max level of 4 ppm. If your water is good, I bet I must have a chlorine issue.
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FoundersBrew
Well-Known Member
Deafsmith,
I have always used spring water on my brews, so I'm not sure if the tap water would produce a bad beer or not. I guess I have never tried to use it because it seems to have a bit of a chlorine taste. I set a glass of water out tonight to see if the chlorine taste would evaporate. What about you, have you tried to brew with straight tap? If so, what results did you have?
I have always used spring water on my brews, so I'm not sure if the tap water would produce a bad beer or not. I guess I have never tried to use it because it seems to have a bit of a chlorine taste. I set a glass of water out tonight to see if the chlorine taste would evaporate. What about you, have you tried to brew with straight tap? If so, what results did you have?
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
Dallas-area water is different from Fort Worth-area water. Dallas water seems to taste better and tends to be less chlorinated (although the mid-cities seems to be better than Fort Worth or the northern FTW suburbs). I've brewed with tap water, tap water blended with distilled water, and filtered tap water. On the Fort Worth side I definitely get a medicinal flavor coming through from the tap water when I don't filter or add campden. I'd recommend even in Dallas using a filter and/or campden if you're going to use tap water to break down the chloramine in the water. Then you're probably fine to use tap water.
Chloramine/chlorine off flavors develop over time so if you drink your brews within 1-2 months of brewing you're probably not going to notice any off flavors from tap water but after that it will start to develop and just get worse and worse.
Chloramine/chlorine off flavors develop over time so if you drink your brews within 1-2 months of brewing you're probably not going to notice any off flavors from tap water but after that it will start to develop and just get worse and worse.
Yes, I have done a couple of brews with straight tap water, but as I said in my post above, I run it through a charcoal filter to remove the chlorine and other possible contaminants, then add the Kmeta powder (same as Campden tablets) to remove chloramine. I have not detected any traces of chlorine or "band-aid" taste in these brews.
BetterSense
Well-Known Member
I just started brewing but I've done all my batches with Richardson water and never gave it a thought. I assumed that since it was going to be boiled and all, that the chlorine would just evaporate.
From the Home Brewing Wiki:
"Most older brewing references say simply that if your water tastes good coming out of the tap it will make acceptable beer in extract brewing. However, the increased use of chloramines by municipal water supplies is changing this situation. Unlike chlorines, many of which evaporate when the water is boiled, chloramines are not affected by boiling and water with high levels of chloramines will leave a strong, distinctive taste in the finished beer."
Filtering through activated charcoal can remove the chloramine, but IMO the surest way is Campden tablets or potassium metabisulfite (K-Meta) or sodium metabisulfite (Na-Meta) powder.
"Most older brewing references say simply that if your water tastes good coming out of the tap it will make acceptable beer in extract brewing. However, the increased use of chloramines by municipal water supplies is changing this situation. Unlike chlorines, many of which evaporate when the water is boiled, chloramines are not affected by boiling and water with high levels of chloramines will leave a strong, distinctive taste in the finished beer."
Filtering through activated charcoal can remove the chloramine, but IMO the surest way is Campden tablets or potassium metabisulfite (K-Meta) or sodium metabisulfite (Na-Meta) powder.
BetterSense
Well-Known Member
Can you use Sodium Thiosulfate for this?
I ask because I have a big tub of photo-grade Sodium Thiosulfate that I use for photography.
I ask because I have a big tub of photo-grade Sodium Thiosulfate that I use for photography.
Even though thiosulfate sounds like metabisulfate, you can't use it to react with chlorine or chloramine. Get Campden tablets that are preferably composed of potassium metabisulfate, not sodium metabisulfate.
BetterSense
Well-Known Member
Actually, sodium thiosulfate is used to reduce chlorine levels in swimming pools. I don't know what effect it has on chloramine, though. I better just stick with the campden tablets. Is my beer going to start tasting bad in the bottles? I just started all-grain but I have about 4 batches that have been in bottles only a few months and it would really depress me if they went bad.
Boiling removes chlorine but not chloramine. If your tap water tastes good, you can brew good beer with it. Those municipal water reports are helpful to a degree, but you really need to get a report on YOUR water (what goes into your equipment), especially if you want to modify your water profile. See here for what you want to know regarding water additives. Ward Labs will give you a report for about $16. You send them a sample in a typical 12 or 16oz water bottle.
Spring water works ok, just don't use distilled.
Spring water works ok, just don't use distilled.
@ mabrungard
I have a question about the water reports from the North Texas Municipal Water District. Their reports used to show total alkalinity equal to 50/61 of the bicarbonate, which I would expect. Sometime in 2009 the reports changed and now show identical numbers for total alkalinity and bicarbonate. If this is correct, I don't understand how, and if one of the numbers is wrong, I don't understand which one, so don't know what to enter in your Bru'n Water spreadsheet. What am I missing?
Link to latest report:
http://www.ntmwd.com/downloads/WaterQualityAnalysis/wqa0911.pdf
Link to January, 2009 report:
http://www.ntmwd.com/downloads/WaterQualityAnalysis/wqa0109.pdf
I have a question about the water reports from the North Texas Municipal Water District. Their reports used to show total alkalinity equal to 50/61 of the bicarbonate, which I would expect. Sometime in 2009 the reports changed and now show identical numbers for total alkalinity and bicarbonate. If this is correct, I don't understand how, and if one of the numbers is wrong, I don't understand which one, so don't know what to enter in your Bru'n Water spreadsheet. What am I missing?
Link to latest report:
http://www.ntmwd.com/downloads/WaterQualityAnalysis/wqa0911.pdf
Link to January, 2009 report:
http://www.ntmwd.com/downloads/WaterQualityAnalysis/wqa0109.pdf
Its in situations like these that its important to evaluate the water report validity via the Water Report Input sheet. Plug in everything that the water report gives you and see how the balance is. If there is another report that did have the proper relationship between alkalinity and bicarbonate, then use that to point you toward the more likely answer. Hopefully the other ions are similar between the reports and you'll be able to see where the error(s) are. The cations and anions should generally balance.
BetterSense
Well-Known Member
So I have a Brita filter in my refrigerator. I think it has charcoal. Would it be worth running water into my kettle from that? It would take a really long time because its not much flow.
You can really go crazy with water chemistry as it is a very complex issue. If you want to stay basic and effective, just run your tap through an activated carbon block filter. Your "salts" may not be ideal for the style and your pH might not be ideal but you will make good beer from that water. Unless you're on a well, then...forget everything I just said.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
One thing to think about is that the North Texas Municipal Water District is calling for water restrictions because the water is low. When the water is low, the minerals tend to be more concentrated by the time it reaches you. This may not be as much of an issue if you filter, but it may affect the balance of some of the dissolved minerals if you don't.
i posted the original thread
we have relatively low CA in low 30 range and high carbonate in 60 ppm range This makes good brown beers untreated Sulfate is also somewhat high
But, boosting CA to over 50 ppm is recommended for all beers i use tap water and treat with CaCl or calcium carbon as needed
we have relatively low CA in low 30 range and high carbonate in 60 ppm range This makes good brown beers untreated Sulfate is also somewhat high
But, boosting CA to over 50 ppm is recommended for all beers i use tap water and treat with CaCl or calcium carbon as needed
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
If the city website doesn't provide the report it should at least say what water authority is the source of water. The authority's website should have the report. If all else fails, email the municipal water department and ask if they can email you the report.
Thanks, I called them and they have a water report in their lobby I can pick up.
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