Noob, Put my mind at rest please

[mortal888]

Hello!

I'm a noob. I brewed a mini mash batch with a friend of mine and we made a really nice batch of stout. I have now gone it alone.

For my first batch, I decided to make this one....
Austin Homebrew Supply

My mentor said that if i follow the recipe exactly, I shouldn't need to worry about using the hydrometer. So I didn't.

I followed the recipe to the letter, boiled, cooled, double pitched, put it in the primary. Seemed to go about right, yeast went crazy the first few days and slowly died down after that. As per the recipe, switched it to the secondary after 7 days. Had some trouble getting the airlock to stay on when I put it on. Not much activity i can see during the secondary, but kept a bit of foam at the top so optimistic.

7 days later (yesterday) I bottled. I was thinking that for a 7% beer it should smell a little stronger, but being a noob i kept going. Midway through the bottling, i sloshed some on my hand and licked it. Then got nervous. It's sugary and very little alcohol flavor. It's supposed to be a winter warmer.

I'm now worried that I'll have a sweet low ABV beer. Since I didn't take hydrometer readings, I can't troubleshoot. My mentor said that he hardly ever takes them and just follows the recipe, never any problems.

So I start reading. I find something else I might have done wrong. We had a cold snap right before I put it in the secondary and my house ranged from around 58-65 for most of the secondary. Never heard that it was best at around 68-70 degrees. I kept it in a storage closet with little airflow, so I'm hoping that was minimized but now I worry my yeast went to sleep.

According to the recipe, i should be able to drink in about 3 weeks. Worried that it will be a sweet, low alcohol beer.

Is there anything I should do? If I open it and it's sweet and low alcohol, will it help to let it sit longer?
It's going to be a long wait........

 

[ciphin78]

Couple things off the top of my head...

-14 days from pitch to bottle seems pretty quick to me, especially if its a 7% beer. I'd be concerned that you'll have bottle bombs.
-Sweetness could indicate that it was not done fermenting yet and that's why it tasted sweet and why you could have bottle bombs.
-I think your temp ranges were fine (not optimal), but fine.
-If it's still sweet after being in the bottle that's pretty much it.
-Next time leave it in primary for about 4 weeks and take a gravity reading before pitching and then at 4 weeks. If it's fermented out, bottle it. Otherwise, wait another week and check again.
-Also, it could have tasted sweet because you primed it with sugar before bottling and thats when it got on your hand.

 

[mortal888]

I guess the only way to see if I have bottle bombs is if one explodes? Then what can I do other than throwing out the rest?
But wouldn't I have seen more activity in the secondary if I were going to get bottle bombs?

 

[hogwash]

I highly recommend using a hydrometer in the future to at least check your final gravity and see if the beer is ready to bottle. I never check my original gravity though I am going to start so I can calculate my efficiency.

If you don't use a hydrometer, give it more time to ferment out. I'd give it at least a week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary (if you must secondary at all, otherwise just leave it in the primary for 3 weeks to a month.)

I'd be concerned about bottle bombs as ciphin78 mentioned but you'll just have to wait that out. Give 'em a few weeks and try 'em, you might end up with something mighty tasty. If they aren't to your liking, wait another few weeks and try 'em again. Repeat until gone. In the meantime, brew more beer.

 

[daksin]

Those instructions are designed to get you drinking your beer as fast as possible so you'll buy another kit from them. You're absolutely right that it's almost impossible to troubleshoot with no hydrometer. The worst thing that could happen is your fermentation wasn't done yet and you may have some gushers or bottle bombs from overcarbonation.

You really can't know what is going on with your beer without the hydrometer- it's an invaluable tool and one that really couldn't be easier to use (except they always include useless scales which confuses noobs- only look at the specific gravity scales and ignore the "potential alcohol %").

For some reassurance, this beer is supposed to finish fairly sweet (FG 1.018) as winter warmers are usually pretty malty to balance out the alcohol, but I would be surprised if it got there after 1 week in primary and 1 in secondary, but it's not unheard of, especially if you used dry yeast. That said, carbonation is going to affect the way you perceive everything about this beer.

As it's bottled, there's not a lot you can do at this point. I would let it carb up (covered and in a sealed container to protect you and the carpet from bottle bombs) and taste one once a week to make sure it's not overcarbing. Before tasting, let the bottle chill for 24 hours in the fridge, and when the bottles get to a good carb level, put them ALL in the fridge to stop any more fermentation. If they're too sweet, just call it a learning experience.

Next time, let your beer ferment all the way to FG in primary, and then give it at least another week for the yeast to clean up after themselves. Many people here do a long 3-4 week primary and skip the secondary unless they're dry hopping, using fruit or oak, or adding other flavors. A lot of people just add those extras right into the primary after ALL fermentation has completed. You want to make absolutely sure the yeast aren't still working when you add new flavors.

Anyway, it sounds to me like you've got an empty fermentor, which means it's time to start the next batch and do it properly this time!

Cheers!

 

[birvine]

I guess the only way to see if I have bottle bombs is if one explodes? Then what can I do other than throwing out the rest?
But wouldn't I have seen more activity in the secondary if I were going to get bottle bombs?

Don't get to the explosion stage. I ran into a similar problem very recently so here is what I'm doing:

- leaving the bottles to condition as per the norm - warm room
- every few days I'll test one and burp off the co2 by slightly opening it
- if it seems overly carbed then I'll burp all of them
- otherwise I'll give them the time to condition

New beer is rarely very good and gets much better durinig the month or so they bottle-condition.

B

 

[hypergolic]

Bottle bombs are dangerous and messy, I would try to avoid them at all cost. If it's not done fermenting, which you can't tell because you didn't take a gravity reading, the beer will keep fermenting in the bottle causing pressure and possible bottle bombs. You really need to take gravity readings, your mentor may have never had an issue but he is steering you down the wrong path.

Heh you got a few responses while I was typing, but they all are saying the same thing.

 

[soupfist]

You might be OK. I would expect the beer to taste sweet from out of the bottling bucket assuming you'd already added your priming sugar.

In my inexperienced days I once bottled a dunkel at 1.020. Didn't learn how dumb that was until it was too late. So I let them go for about 3-4 days after bottling and then opened one to test it. Sure enough the beer bubbled out of the top. So I vented & recapped all the bottles, let them go for another 3-4 days, and tested again. One recapping ended up being enough and it ended up being a good beer. Yours probably will too...REALLY hard to mess up a kit batch.

 

[stanzela]

If one goes on you, it's likely that the rest will too. If you can store them in the fridge, that might help you as the colder temps will make the yeasties sleep, and prevent much further fermentation. It may not stop it completely, but it will definitely help. So, keep your eye on them and maybe after a week in the bottle try cracking one to gauge the level of carbonation. Then again after another week, etc. A winter warmer should be a bit sweet, but if it's obviously unfermentedly sweet then you may have a problem.

So, if you do experience a bomb, or if you open one after a week and it's crazy-carbed, toss them in the fridge ASAP.

EDIT: oh yeah, the burping method is smart. Probably smarter than just tossing in the fridge...bottle bomb in fridge=lots of lost food!

 

[H-ost]

EDIT: oh yeah, the burping method is smart. Probably smarter than just tossing in the fridge...bottle bomb in fridge=lots of lost food!

You have room for FOOD in your fridge???

 

[mortal888]

Appreciate all the responses guys!

Instructions I'm understanding so far:
-I'll do readings from now on.
-I'll open one a week to see if it fizzes over then if it does, take the caps off all of them and recap them.
-Let them sit for months if that's what it takes.
-Brew new beer in my empty fermenter

Confused on the length of time though. I do want to use a secondary, so 2-3 weeks in primary and 2 in secondary next time? Or is it one in primary and 2-3 in secondary? I'll mostly be brewing 7% and up beers if that helps.

 

[daksin]

Confused on the length of time though. I do want to use a secondary, so 2-3 weeks in primary and 2 in secondary next time? Or is it one in primary and 2-3 in secondary? I'll mostly be brewing 7% and up beers if that helps.

Why do you want to use a secondary? You don't need one unless you're doing bulk aging for very long periods of time (think 6 months plus). Otherwise, you can toss everything in the primary. Most of us do that or only use secondaries for the extras (dry hop, oak, fruit etc) and bulk aging, and our beers turn out better than racking over to secondary before fermentation is done. You want your beer to have access to as much yeast as possible for as long as possible.

The whole secondary thing comes from an earlier time when we didn't have access to all these wonderful sanitizers and healty, high-quality, cultured yeasts, and also from hearing it from commercial breweries where due to pressure, it really is beneficial to get the beer off the trub/yeast. Now it's irrelevant, and our beers can benefit from more time on the yeast.

Not to mention that secondary fermentation is a total misnomer, as no fermentation should be taking place- think of it as a clearing tank or "brite tank" for commercial breweries, and just as a "bulk aging carboy" for homebrewers.

That said, if you're going to be brewing a lot of high gravity ales, then you're going to want to age them a real long time. Barleywines aren't usually best before a year in secondary. If you plan on bulk aging, give big beers at least a month on the yeast.

 

[H-ost]

Confused on the length of time though. I do want to use a secondary, so 2-3 weeks in primary and 2 in secondary next time? Or is it one in primary and 2-3 in secondary? I'll mostly be brewing 7% and up beers if that helps.

Primary until the gravity readings are just a few points off of what you want them to be then transfer to your secondary.

But I'm curious, do you want to secondary because that is what you have been told to do? There is nothing wrong with it but if you are doing it for "clearing" purposes then leaving it in primary for an extra week or two will do the same thing.

 

[BamaRooster]

Yep all of the above posts are accurate. Leave it in the primary, it will make better beer. It is now known that there is not sufficient pressure in the home brew fermenter to cause autolysis. The requirement for the homebrewer to use a secondary to prevent off flavors is a myth. I too worried about this in the beginning but now leave all my beers in the primary 3-4 weeks, it makes better beer. Here is a link where John Palmer talks about the myth and how it started and why it has been disproved.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

 

[david_42]

First, do you have a hydrometer? If you do, open a bottle and run a test. If you are close to the expected FG, then you probably don't need to worry about bottle bombs. If it is 10 points or more above the expected FG, I would recommend you pry the caps loose, but not off and store the bottles in a warm area lined with plastic. Check the gravity again in a week.

 

[mortal888]

Once again, wow with the responses.

Why do you want to use a secondary? You don't need one unless you're doing bulk aging for very long periods of time (think 6 months plus). Otherwise, you can toss everything in the primary. Most of us do that or only use secondaries for the extras (dry hop, oak, fruit etc) and bulk aging, and our beers turn out better than racking over to secondary before fermentation is done. You want your beer to have access to as much yeast as possible for as long as possible.

Well, i guess it's because I bought it, was taught on it, and learned that in cooking, extra steps are usually worth it. But if the general consensus is that a secondary is not worth it, i will give it a try for my second batch. If this works better, i'll just hold onto the secondary for oak barrel beers and such.

Yesterday 08:42 PM
david_42 First, do you have a hydrometer? If you do, open a bottle and run a test. If you are close to the expected FG, then you probably don't need to worry about bottle bombs.

I'll mix these ideas, wait a week and do that.

 

[birvine]

I'm not sure that a hydrometer will work in a carbonated beverage. Anyone have comments?

B

 

[biestie]

First, do you have a hydrometer? If you do, open a bottle and run a test. If you are close to the expected FG, then you probably don't need to worry about bottle bombs. If it is 10 points or more above the expected FG, I would recommend you pry the caps loose, but not off and store the bottles in a warm area lined with plastic. Check the gravity again in a week.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. What yeast did you use? If you opted for dry yeast, my guess is that your yeast finished the job.

 

[Yooper]

I'm not sure that a hydrometer will work in a carbonated beverage. Anyone have comments?

B

Sure it will, if you "decarb" it first! You just pour the pour, stir it well to knock out the co2, and let it sit just a bit. Then, add the hydrometer and spin the hydrometer in it to knock the bubbles off it it.

 

[mortal888]

I used Wyeast packets.

 

[birvine]

Sure it will, if you "decarb" it first! You just pour the pour, stir it well to knock out the co2, and let it sit just a bit. Then, add the hydrometer and spin the hydrometer in it to knock the bubbles off it it.

OK, thanks for clarifying. I was concerned that co2 would continue to form on the hydrometer since it would take some time to remove all co2 from solution.

B

 

[beergolf]

I'll open one a week to see if it fizzes over then if it does, take the caps off all of them and recap them.

Make sure to give the bottle time in the fridge, at the very minimum 24 hours. A few days is better.

 

[mortal888]

Welp...cooled one and opened it up.

No sweetness, but it's extremely bitter with an alcohol taste that lingers well after I swallow. Like solvent. Reading the forums, solvent flavor is usually when it ferments at too high a temperature, but this one fermented cool. Dunno.

Any chance that flavor will dissipate with age? How many weeks should I give it before tossing it?

 

[mortal888]

Bump?

 

[runningweird]

52 weeks.

 

[biestie]

Welp...cooled one and opened it up.

No sweetness, but it's extremely bitter with an alcohol taste that lingers well after I swallow. Like solvent. Reading the forums, solvent flavor is usually when it ferments at too high a temperature, but this one fermented cool. Dunno.

Any chance that flavor will dissipate with age? How many weeks should I give it before tossing it?

Fusel alcohols can be caused my more than just high ferm temps. Underpitching can be another cause. Your link says it's a winter warmer with an og above 1070 and you said you used a wyeast culture. If you didn't make a starter, you only pitched about a third of the yeast necessary to properly ferment the beer, so that COULD be a cause of the hot alcohol taste. And I don't think fusels improve with age. As far as the question about dumping it... I wouldn't. Put a couple in the back of the fridge and wait a month. See what happens.

 

[mortal888]

And I don't think fusels improve with age.

Damn, that's what I was afraid of.
Ok, so I'll give it a couple of months before dumping.

Thanks

 

[runningweird]

Give it a while time will fix lots of mistakes.

 

[biestie]

Give it a while time will fix lots of mistakes.

Exactly, never jump to the conclusion that your beer is ruined. the reality is that you probably have no idea what's wrong with it and all we can do is guess based on a limited amount of information provided. I think it's likely fusels based on what you said, but take to your lhbs or to a beer club meeting and have them taste it. No matter what happens, for future reference, pitching rates are very important, as is everything on the "cold side".

 

[hogwash]

It's only been in the bottle for what, 8 days? That's not NEARLY enough time for this beer (or really any bottled homebrew) to be ready to drink. Forget about them for at least 2 weeks (or even better, a month), stick 2 or 3 in the fridge for about a week and then try it. It will be much better than it is right now.

My guess is this one will continue to improve for a while. I like to keep a few bottles of a darker beer around for a year or more and see how the flavors change.

 

[petey_c]

"Midway through the bottling, I sloshed some on my hand and licked it. Then got nervous. It's sugary and very little alcohol flavor."
Your hand isn't as accurate a hydrometer. Using a hydro isn't usually necessary with kit beers, but like someone said, it'll help to t'shoot. The beer instructions are written to whisk you through the process and make barely beer, so you'll buy more. Three weeks or more in a primary then about the same in bottles. Fridge for 4 or 5 days. Open a bottle, pour slowly, then consume. Repeat until the pain stops....

 

[mortal888]

Yeah, I've learned my lessons on pitching and taking readings. I'll do better next time, but i'm just trying to deal with what i have now.

The idea of taking it to the lhbs is a good idea. If in three weeks the fusel flavor hasn't subsided i'll bring a couple by them. I think it's that I keep getting mixed replies on taste.

I hear that it should taste good before you bottle, then that it's too soon to tell what it will taste like. That the fusel flavor will not go away, then that it should sit until it does.

I feel like it's a crap shoot.

 

[Yooper]

Yeah, I've learned my lessons on pitching and taking readings. I'll do better next time, but i'm just trying to deal with what i have now.

The idea of taking it to the lhbs is a good idea. If in three weeks the fusel flavor hasn't subsided i'll bring a couple by them. I think it's that I keep getting mixed replies on taste.

I hear that it should taste good before you bottle, then that it's too soon to tell what it will taste like. That the fusel flavor will not go away, then that it should sit until it does.

I feel like it's a crap shoot.

It's not a crap shoot, but aging does improve beer. Now "improving" vs. "fixing a rotten beer" isn't the same thing at all! Some off-flavors, while still present, may mellow a bit with some age. But no amount of time can fix a really bad beer.

A great beer will taste good coming out of the fermenter- like young, flat beer. Conditioning that will make a world of difference, giving you a great beer in two weeks or so.

A "meh" beer might improve enough to be decent. A not-so-good beer might turn out to be drinkable. It's not a crap shoot, but instead making allowances for some beers to improve enough to be drinkable. Esters may fade a bit (although never go away) and fusels and harsh astringency may mellow a bit.

 

[mortal888]

Ah, no THAT makes more sense. Putting these in the back of the closet then.