Noob error, now its sour

[eyebrau]

Ok, so I know what I did wrong, I know why it happened, I know how to prevent for next time... my question is, can it be fixed or hidden?

A couple weeks back I brewed a simple SMaSH. I tried an overnight mash in my cooler mash tun for the first time, as I've read some folks here do. Unfortunately, timing didn't work out as I planned due to circumstances, and the mash sat for around 12-13 hours instead of the 7-8 I planned. When I got to it the temp (started at 153F) was around mid 120's. I went ahead and brewed, fermented, etc. I knew it was coming, though I kept hoping it was just green beer flavors, but it had soured a bit in the mash. It isn't Berliner Weiss sour, or even gose sour, it's just a bit tart. Drinkable, but not necessarily enjoyable. It's currently cold crashing, with the otherwise plan of bottling this weekend.

Any suggestions on a way to fix it, or something I can add in the fermenter to hide the tartness a bit? Or should I just either suck it up and drink it or dump it? I feel like if it was a bigger beer it might get lost in the flavor, but since it's just a simple SMaSH, it sticks out, even though it's a low tartness. Thoughts?

 

[Dcpcooks]

No real way to hide it or offset the sour flavor. Lacto is what caused it most likely.

 

[dyqik]

How strong are the hops in the SMaSH? It might age in a good way as the hops fade a bit.

Is it the citra SMaSH in your sig? if so, is there a fruit flavor that would work well with it? Adding fruit puree or similar might sweeten against the tartness and add flavor. I guess you can try that in a glass.

 

[eyebrau]

Hmm... I'm using the HBT app, so I don't even see my signature... that must be really old... time to log into the website and take that off!

It's not - LBHS had some Glacier hops for cheap (cheap is exactly what I was looking for), and I'd never tried Glacier before, so I gave it a try. So no, it isn't very strong. Didn't dry hop at all, just some bittering, flavor, and whirlpool additions. I thought about fruit purée... I actually have some frozen raspberries I could use... I was just worried that any astringency from the tannins would make it seem even more tart?

Likewise every other adjunct addition I could think of is basically acidic in nature anyway, like coffee, fruit, etc. don't think spices would really do much, vanilla would just be weird... hmm.

 

[stz]

I've found it very difficult to balance bitter with sour. The successful fruit beers I've made have used small amounts of noble hops much like you'd find in a traditional beer. I've made two intentional sour beers (never an unintentional one thinking about it) and with the first I used moderate bittering which was a mistake, it tastes like beer/lemonade shandy. In the second I learnt my lesson and used only a few hops as late additions and the beer is still weird, kind of like a sprite/7up thing going on.

 

[eyebrau]

Thankfully, this really isn't a hoppy beer, and even more so, not bitter - it was a 3 gallon batch, I boiled .5oz for 30 mins, .25oz for 10 mins, and .25oz in whirlpool.

I'm really thinking of moving forward with the fruit - I need to use the raspberries, might as well use them now. So my next question is, how should I add them? They're currently frozen solid. Thaw, put them in a paint strainer, and add? Put them in frozen? What about sanitation? They were picked fresh from a friend's garden and then flash frozen. They've been frozen for a while, but there could still be wild yeast or bacteria that might survive the alcohol and hops, right? Also, suggestions of how long to leave the beer on the fruit before I cold crash again and bottle? A week or two? Less?

I know I need to stop the cold crash and go back to fermentation temps so that the yeast can take care of the fruit sugars. I'll do that today. Think I need to get a paint strainer too.

 

[dyqik]

Raspberry sounds like it would go well with Glacier's "plum, blackberry, wood" aroma.

You could put them through the blender, then pasteurize them. Raspberry flavor stands up to boiling temperatures (e.g. in jam), so heating to say 170 for 10 minutes (or whatever is required for pasteurization) should be fine.

I'd suggest maybe not letting the yeast go all the way on the sugars, so only keep it there for a short time. Sweet balances sour pretty well.

 

[eyebrau]

Thanks for the input. That's probably what I'll do. Agreed that the sweetness would help, but unfortunately I don't have a kegging setup, and have to bottle. Leaving sweetness = bottle bombs.

 

[eyebrau]

Another question. I know many/most here are firmly in the "no secondary" camp, and I am as well. I do primary in a bottling bucket so I can easily pull samples without opening the lid. I've noticed when the primary/secondary debate winds up, the "no secondary" folks are "no secondary unless I'm racking into fruit or doing long bulk aging." So my question is, assuming I'm careful as hell and do it slowly so as to avoid as much oxygen as possible, if I'm putting my fruit in a paint strainer bag, why couldn't I lower the bag into the bucket to let the fruit do it's thing? The yeast is still in suspension so it'll still eat the sugars, and whether the fruit floats or sinks is going to be the same whether I rack onto it or put the fruit in from the top. So what gives, what am I missing, why must I rack onto fruit in a secondary vessel, adding oxygenation and possible contamination?

 

[kh54s10]

What temperature did it reach during the ferment. My first got warm the first night. I thought it was sour, but that was the wrong description. I was advised to do 2 week primary and 2 week secondary then bottle condition for at least 3 weeks. It still tasted the "sour" taste at bottling day, though less pronounced. After bottle conditioning it was very good...

I don't think the extra time in the mash had much, if anything, to do with the problem.

I never make a final judgement on the taste of a beer before it is carbonated and cold. I find that some change flavor dramatically.

As to adding fruit to primary, the one that I did would not hold the fruit and the trub and not overflow my primary. So I had to do a secondary. After losing a little in the trub it still filled my fermenter pretty full. I did use over 6 pounds of blueberries.

Since I don't really like fruited beers, and I haven't done many, I will defer to others on the pros and cons of fruit and trub together.

 

[bleme]

You can fruit in primary. I would weigh down the bag with something so it doesn't float on top though. Lots of people use something stainless steel. I use boiled marbles. My 11 year old is still mad that 30 of her marbles are now permanently purple from a blueberry wheat I did last year.

 

[eyebrau]

Ok so I added a couple pounds of berries to the 3 gallon batch - didn't measure exactly because I don't plan on repeating. But it's a light beer, and the raspberries and blackberries I added should be potent enough for what's there. That said, how long should I leave it on the fruit? A week? Two? I know there will be another fermentation,just not sure if there would be much in terms of cleanup that would need to happen from the secondary fermentation. I still plan on cold crashing too, so I was thinking about letting it sit the full week, cold crashing a week from Wednesday, and then bottling the following weekend. Sound fair enough?

Thanks again.

 

[bleme]

One week should be plenty.

 

[eyebrau]

Cold crashing and added gelatin today (no pectin enzyme, so the gelatin may not do much), pulled a sample just to give it a taste. It's still tart, but the berry flavor and tannic astringency from the berry skins definitely works with it. It's super dry, should make a pretty refreshing summer beer. Hopefully will be bottling this weekend. Thanks again for all the help and input!