Non-Alcoholic Dry Stout for Cancer Survivor

[TaylorInOK]

I wasnt sure if this went into reciepes, techniques or what so if it's in the wrong place, will a mod/admin please move? Thanks much!

My brother is a Leukemia survivor.

For the past two years he's been battling not only the fallout from the chemo and rads, but graft vs. host from his bone marrow transplant and his current state (meds/health/internal sores) denies him any contact with alcoholic beverages. He's in the hospital at least twice a month, sometimes over several days, and dealing with crappy health. They say that GvH is going to be chronic for him for the next 5 years, with minor flare-ups for the next 20.

In the midst of his battle, some way, some how he dug deep and last night i watched my little brother walk across a stage to recieve his bachelor's degree. Imagine how proud i was.

He's an avid beer lover and his current condition is not only painful but a bit of a torture as he can't even kick back and enjoy a brew. Sucks for me too since i'm brewing beer that isnt half bad and he can't even try more than a sip. Even then the alcohol (even low point, he can't even eat black pepper) burns his mouth which is just counter productive.

I've spoken with his doctors (with all the time spent there i know them fairly well now) and they all tell me that it's just the alcohol he can't have due to his meds and sores. They recommend the lowest alcohol content, but zero would be perfect, and using saliva alcohol test strips would be perfect for testing since i'm not looking for a specific number other than zero.

So new project in the works: His favorite beer is Guinness. I've brewed up a batch of BeirMuncher's (all hail BeirMuncher) Guinness Clone <here> and will be using techniques learned from this site and others to attempt a good tasting non-alcoholic (as in 0 / zero / The Big Null) brew.

High Level Plan:

Initial Testing Phase (alcohol removal method)

• 6 Gallon Brews
• 1 Gallon for testing alcohol removal oven method
• 1 Gallon for testing alcohol removal boil method
• co2 carb using 1 liter PET bottles with carb cap method
  
  Big Brew Testing Phase (large quantity removal method)
  • 5 Gallon Brews
  • 5 Gallon testing alcohol removal method that works best
  • co2 carb using keg
  
  Production Phase (after x number of big brew tests to get it right)
  • 10 Gallon Brews
  • 5 Gallon alcahol removal using method that works best
  • Nitrogen tap
  
  5 Gal Recipe:
  
  Bill:
  5.5 lbs Pale Malt 2 row UK
  2.12 lbs Flaked Barley
  14 oz Roasted Barley
  4 oz Black (patent) malt
  2 oz acid malt
  
  Mash:
  (12.5 qt) Mash high @ 158 for 60 minutes.
  (6.25 qt) Mash out @ boiling let sit for 10 minutes.
  (4.5 gal) Fly sparge @ 168
  
  Boil:
  2 oz East Kent Goldings @ 60
  Whirlfloc @ 15
  
  Pitch:
  Irish Ale (Wyeast 1084)
  
  The high mash temps were recommended by BYO, as well as the oven and boil methods <here>.
  
  At the time of writing this, i'm at 1 week 3 days into fermentation, with a great vigorous initial fermentation done. I'm going to let the thing sit in the primary for another two weeks then proceed.
  
  Initial Alcohol Removal Testing:
  
  After 3 weeks in primary, seperate 2 gallons and keg the rest for comparison.
  
  Oven Method
  
  Pre-heat oven to 180, testing oven temp with seperate oven thermometer.
  Place in ss pan with thermometer in brew.
  Start timer for 30 minutes once thermometer reaches 176 - 180.
  
  Boil Method
  
  Put 1 gallon into ss boiling pot.
  Raise temp to 173/174.
  Maintain temp for 30 minutes, not allowing it to go higher by any means.
  
  Completion for Both Methods
  
  Cool each batch at the end of their timers with ice water bath.
  Test alcohol content using test strips. <here>
  Bottle into PET bottles and label with all relevant info.
  Carb bottles with carbonation caps.
  
  Tasting
  
  If it all works out, with losing about 4 to 6 oz per gallon, i should end up with about 4, 1liter bottles per method. I'll make sure i add just a bit more to compensate for the loss.
  
  After 3 weeks in the bottle, open one to taste each week, comparing with the kegged brew and test for alcohol content.
  
  Rinse and Repeat making any changes to recipe or process.
  
  Resources:
  BeirMuncher's Ode to Arthur Irish Stout
  BYO Non-Alcoholic Process
  Carbonation Caps:I can't make the youtube vid on carb caps just a link. Youtube search: How to Make A Carbonation Cap
  Multiple Homebrewtalk threads
  Alcohol Test Strips
  
  So that's it. I'm a little under two weeks away for the initial testing. If anyone has any suggestions on A-NY-THING please post up. They are suggesting that my brother will be brewless for at least another two years so i'm hoping this will make things a bit easier for him.

 

[helibrewer]

You can also find water distillers that might make the alcohol removal easier, although the volume is probably less than what you could achieve stovetop.

 

[TaylorInOK]

Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely look into that.

 

[yancydc]

I'm not really familiar with the alcohol removal process, but I wish you the best of luck. You're a great brother.

 

[HawksBrewer]

You rock man :rockin:

Way to go out of your way for your little brother, there should be more people like you out there.

 

[Boardndave]

Perhaps you could brew, then dry hop with a healthy dose of various cyclosporins?

 

[passedpawn]

After looking at this in some pretty serious depth, I think reverse osmosis or dialysis would be the best/only way to make a decent beer with minimal alcohol.

If you want a beer with zero alcohol, your best bet is to not add yeast. Make a 1.012 dry stout. It will be missing some key flavors found in beer, but with a stout it might be possible. Make a second stout at the same time and let the CO2 from the airlock bubble through the first small stout to add some of the esters that are missing. Hmmm, just a thought there. Next time I make beer maybe I'll take the final runnngs and try this.

Maybe you could experiment with S. Ludwigii. Sacc that doesn't create alcohol.

 

[passedpawn]

Bottle into PET bottles and label with all relevant info.
Carb bottles with carbonation caps.

That will create alcohol. Between .2 and .5%. You'll need to force carb. Find a friend who kegs. Then bottle from the carbonated kegs.

 

[brewit2it]

Hope your brother keeps doing well. I'm really no help on making non-alcohol beer though.

Only thing I can think of which would probably be the easiest would be to buy store bought non-alcohol lager and modify it with non-fermentable adjuncts then force carb. In other words you could do anything from buying a case or two of O' Douls, pouring it in your brew pot, steep with heavily roasted barley such as patent and chocolate malt, maybe add some lactose for body and sweetness then force carb. If you wanted an even easier method make a black malt tea, open the bottles of O'Douls and pour out a couple ounces, add some lactose and a couple ounces of the tea and re-cap. It should get you a very good approximation of a non-alcohol stout with not too much effort.

 

[TaylorInOK]

Yancydc & HawksBrewer: Thanks guys. We'll see how it turns out.

Perhaps you could brew, then dry hop with a healthy dose of various cyclosporins?

I havnt even heard of cyclon neosporins ... will research that tonight. Thanks!

That will create alcohol. Between .2 and .5%. You'll need to force carb. Find a friend who kegs. Then bottle from the carbonated kegs.

Already have reverse osmosis on the list of research topics... adding dialysis. As for the other, its carbonation caps... for PET bottles... basically a check valve installed on top of a PET cap and you can get the nozzle for air hoses to just force co2 into small bottles, then check with a tire pressure gague. This is just for the first couple of tests since i'll be running such low quantities of it i can't use my full kegs.

As for S. Ludwigii. Sacc... adding that to my research list. Hitting google with that first i didnt even know there was a sacc that didnt create alcohol but produced some of the same esters as brewers yeast? I'll check it out thank you!

Only thing I can think of which would probably be the easiest would be to buy store bought non-alcohol lager and modify it with non-fermentable adjuncts then force carb.

I thought about that. If the burning off methods from BYO don't work this is definitely a route i'd persure further. Thanks!

 

[passedpawn]

As for the other, its carbonation caps... for PET bottles... basically a check valve installed on top of a PET cap and you can get the nozzle for air hoses to just force co2 into small bottles

Ah, OK, I know what you're talking about. I thought you were talking about those carb tablets made out of compressed DME. Wups.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

Have you considered freezing it to remove the alcohol?

(seeing as alcohol won't freeze at the temperatures where water is solid)

If that resulted in too much loss of flavor, you could distill the liquid that is left behind after freezing the beer and straining out the beer-ice.

 

[BeerChef17]

You have a lucky brother! Best of luck to you...i know I'd be doing the same for mine.

Freezing wont work-you will always have some alcohol entrapped in ice crystals and just end up with an overall slushie at the proper temps

 

[Proboscidea]

Best of luck with this, and congratulations & warm thoughts to your brother.

I'm kind of surprised that the home brewing community has not yet come up with a standard way to make alcohol-free beer. We are tinkerers to the utmost, and I'd bet most of us know (or will know some day) somebody whose medical circumstances proscribe alcohol but who miss the taste of beer. How cool would it be to be able to make a specific favorite style of beer for them, beyond their limited options in that tiny non-alcoholic section in the grocery store?

I wonder how the professionals at O'Douls or whatever do it.

Can't wait to read the results of your experiment. If you find a way to make this work, it would be awesome to see this in the Recipes section.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I don't have any idea whether boiling off the alcohol will boil out enough alcohol to make it tolerable and safe for him but you'll have to carefully consider (or experiment and learn the hard way) what beers you try to produce this way. Many esters and acids will also evaporate or break down under that kind of heat. If you're trying to get that sour twang to guiness you could try adding a little lactic acid after heating the beer but I wonder if the acid would bother him as well.

 

[Sippin37]

You are a good man and an even better brother. I'm anxious to see the results of all your hard work.

 

[ak-71]

A bit of a different angle - would it be possible not to create much alcohol in the 1st place?
Basically have a lighter grain bill mashed at higher temp. and just enough fermentable sugars to carbonate, could it give you a similar flavor/taste?

Something like hoped "kvas" (it's a good beverage by itself fermented from bread dried/baked in the oven and a very small amount of sugar) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass

 

[D_Nyholm]

Please keep us updated. I hope your brother is able to enjoy a brew with all that he has endured. Good luck!