No Krausen in Bottle Conditioning beer?

[MeetsCriteria]

Hello All--

I've done my best searching the forum for a direct answer to this question...

I'm fairly new to brewing, with 5 AG batches under my belt. I went straight to kegging right away, and have been happy with the results.

This last batch I decided to brew the Stone Vertical Epic 020202 clone (recipe on Stone's website).

I kegged 3/4 of it, and bottled the rest (for aging purposes), adding sucrose (amount calculated using beer reciprocator) to each bottle.

So, the question is (assuming I added an appropriate amount of priming suger) should I be seeing a krausen in the bottle, or any sign of activity what-so-ever? It's been 4 days and I've seen no sign of any life. Since I've never bottled I don't know what to expect, but have seen some posts aluding to krausen activity in the bottle. Just wondering if lack of such activity is diagnostic for lack of bottle self-carbing.

Beer was brewed as per Stone's specifications. My OG was 1.076 and FG 1.012. I didn't add fresh yeast, but assumed there was enough yeast in solution to do the job (WLP 400). Fermented at 71 deg. Bottles now at room temp (73F).

BTW, kegged version is already carb'd and freakin' awesome. Strong stuff though at 8.4% ABV, which was expected. Should age nicely.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[llazy_llama]

Generally, you won't get krausen in the bottles. It does happen on occasion, but most of the time it doesn't. Either way, there is nothing to worry about. If the kegged version came out good, the bottled version will too (assuming proper cleaning/sanitation techniques, proper bottling techniques, and proper amount of priming sugar to style).

RDWHA(kegged)HB!

 

[obezyana1]

llama's right, it's not very often you see any krausen in the bottle. there just isn't enough sugar in there for the yeast to convert unless the wort didn't fully ferment prior to bottling. If I saw krausen I'd be on the look out for bottle bombs.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Great news. Thanks for the reassurance. I guess I will just have to be patient with them! Not hard since I have much of it in the keg already!

We'll see what happens! I it took nearly 14 days to ferment out, and then I let it sit for another 14 days on the yeast cake. Of course, I drained the trub early on (conical).

I'd highly recommend the recipe.

Stone Vertical Epic Ale

Thank again,

Mike

 

[HSM]

You should NEVER see krausen... no yeast jumping up and down... nothing. Just give it proper time.

If you pick up a bottle and give it a shake you'll see the carbonation/bubbles, etc... but if you see krausen in a bottle at rest you've got a problem.

 

[Revvy]

You should NEVER see krausen... no yeast jumping up and down... nothing. Just give it proper time.

If you pick up a bottle and give it a shake you'll see the carbonation/bubbles, etc... but if you see krausen in a bottle at rest you've got a problem.

Never's a long long time..actually plenty of noobs who obsessively stare at their bottled beers HAVE seen krausen and started panic threads about it...actually I have a theory that it is more common than we think, BUT it happens really fast and most of us just stick our beers in boxes in a dark closet and ignore them for 3 weeks...while brand new brewers watch their beers like a hawk...and seem to see it....Those people who witness them, have come back and said that there beer was fine and was NOT infected...

It's been acknowledged that bottles primed with DME do krausen quite often...But I think the potential for krausening in bottles is there, in all beers..it may only form and fall in less than an hour, but may happen..Remember, the yeast in the bottle is usually an ale yeast which is a top fermenting yeast....carbonation is still just a mini form of fermentation with the by product, CO2 being trapped in the headspace and being forced back into solution....SO the yeast and the sugar doesn't miraculously convert to a different type of yest...it's STILL top fermenting yeast, they do the same behavior pattern that they do in a fermenter, except in a tiny 12 or 22 ounce glass carboy...so the potential is there...perhaps certain types of yeast are MORE apt to do so.

But to say never negates quite a few new and obsessve brewer's personal obsvervation...And NO, I'm not talking about the "Rings" mentioned in papazian and palmer as a sign of infection...I'm talking about the illusive mini-krausen....Just becasue you (or I for that matter) haven't seen one (while others have) doesn't mean they're wrong...hell I've never seen Cuba, but I have a pretty good idea that it exists....

Someday I'm gonna set up one of those high speed cams and capture one of those bastards...

But OP generally speaking there are no "signs" of carbonation..just give them 3 weeks at 70 degrees and they will be skiffy!

 

[HSM]

Revvy, your concern with "noobs" is noted, though by my standards you are still green yourself.

Your best advise is to stick them in a dark closet and wait 3 weeks.

BTW... "NEVER>> NEVER:: NEVER!!"

So there.

edit: fogot to include this famous quote:

Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer!

Seems Never isn't a bad word afterall.

 

[double_e5]

You should NEVER see krausen... no yeast jumping up and down... nothing. Just give it proper time.

If you pick up a bottle and give it a shake you'll see the carbonation/bubbles, etc... but if you see krausen in a bottle at rest you've got a problem.

I have seen it and didn't have any problems.

I'm interested in hearing what kind of problems this might cause.

 

[HSM]

I have seen it and didn't have any problems.

I'm interested in hearing what kind of problems this might cause.

None what so ever. Were you staring at your newly bottled beer?

There could be activity as the headspace is filled, but after that, nada, and it should be very short lived.

My concern would be that if you saw a continued krausen in the bottle then it's not filling the headspace.. ie, the cap is leaking.

 

[double_e5]

It was in a hefe and was indeed very short lived. In fact as soon as I picked the bottle up it fell.

I agree that you are not going to see massive fermentation happening in the bottle, but to say that it never, never, never should happen is a little strong.

 

[Revvy]

The bottle krasen that have been seen are really tiny...it's not like there's going to be a blowoff of goop "filling the headspace" it would be about equal to the sediment one sees at the bottom of the bottle aftewards. Like other's have said the amount of fermentables and yeast in solution in the bottles are slight...so there's no reason to assume a huge krausen or huge yeastcake in the bottle of beer. Just a small line of it at the surface, and maybe in some even rarer instances some left over on the glass...

HSM also said "but if you see krausen in a bottle at rest you've got a problem." which I disagreed with...it simply isn't the case that a bottle krauzen is a problem, or a sign of infection, or anything else besides the yeasties being yeasties and doing what they do...there's been enough anecdotal evidence that they exist, and that the beers are normal in any other way.

And even in my "never dump your beer thread" instances of dumping are noted in the thread, after one has waited for awhile to see if the beer improves....

But YOUR use of the word NEVER is a little different than mine...you say it NEVER occurs unless something is wrong...and it appears that many of us disagree with you...

But again, going back to the context of the OP's original question...There aren't an usual signs of carbonation happening that most people see.

 

[Revvy]

It was in a hefe and was indeed very short lived. In fact as soon as I picked the bottle up it fell.

I agree that you are not going to see massive fermentation happening in the bottle, but to say that it never, never, never should happen is a little strong.

It would be interesting to "track" the types of beers that people see them on...we know that DME priming is one of the instances where it occurs normally...I think even Papazian notes that in his book. Hefes would make sense because they have a lot more yeast in solution then a more highly flocculant yeast.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

It would be interesting to "track" the types of beers that people see them on...we know that DME priming is one of the instances where it occurs normally...I think even Papazian notes that in his book. Hefes would make sense because they have a lot more yeast in solution then a more highly flocculant yeast.

That was part of my curiosity, as this was essentially a high powered wit, with plenty of WLP400 in solution...so I thought I'd be more likely to see something...but from the sound of everything, NOT seeing anything, is more the norm. Thanks again for the advice and great discussion!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[MeetsCriteria]

As if I should be surprised, but the beer is carb'd! Just so used to kegging, it's like magic when it carbs in the bottle!

Anyways, thanks again for the advice.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[RmikeVT]

Bringing this back from the dead.

I did see Krausen in my Belgian Dubbel I just bottled @ 3.5 volumes. I even had a ring (I seriously doubt its an infection that magically took hold in 3 days after bottling). it was one of the bottle that got a lot of sediment from the bottom of the bottling bucket. Probably had tons of yeast and went nuts on the sugar of 3.5 volumes. The rest all look normal but I can see activity. WLP500 is the yeast I used. It looks like they are having a party in the bottle. Im not worried, although I might put them in the downstairs shower in case.

 

[m3n00b]

Bringing this back from the dead.

I did see Krausen in my Belgian Dubbel I just bottled @ 3.5 volumes. I even had a ring (I seriously doubt its an infection that magically took hold in 3 days after bottling). it was one of the bottle that got a lot of sediment from the bottom of the bottling bucket. Probably had tons of yeast and went nuts on the sugar of 3.5 volumes. The rest all look normal but I can see activity. WLP500 is the yeast I used. It looks like they are having a party in the bottle. Im not worried, although I might put them in the downstairs shower in case.

Interesting!

 

[RmikeVT]

I inspected last night too. The beers are cloudy and definite active fermentation going on in some of the bottles. I've never seen anything like it before. Usually, when I bottle condition I don't see anything happening. I hopes these things don't explode.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,I have seen a little of this sort of activity in a couple batches,since I bottle everything. It was a pale ale that I remember most. It was a little string of bubbles around the top like 1 day after bottling. I don't remember seeing it after some 3 days or so. Then the beers start settling out crystal clear.

 

[RmikeVT]

Well,I have seen a little of this sort of activity in a couple batches,since I bottle everything. It was a pale ale that I remember most. It was a little string of bubbles around the top like 1 day after bottling. I don't remember seeing it after some 3 days or so. Then the beers start settling out crystal clear.

This dubbel is going to drive me nuts. So much interesting stuff going on with it through the whole brew process. I am trying to let it age for at least 2 mos in the bottle before I crack one open.
Must......be.......patient.......ugghhh....can't......stop....self......from......opening

 

[unionrdr]

Patience in brewing is a virtue that's learned. Get something else to drink & leave them be. That's what I do.

 

[Bullphysics]

Bringing this back from the dead.

I did see Krausen in my Belgian Dubbel I just bottled @ 3.5 volumes. I even had a ring (I seriously doubt its an infection that magically took hold in 3 days after bottling). it was one of the bottle that got a lot of sediment from the bottom of the bottling bucket. Probably had tons of yeast and went nuts on the sugar of 3.5 volumes. The rest all look normal but I can see activity. WLP500 is the yeast I used. It looks like they are having a party in the bottle. Im not worried, although I might put them in the downstairs shower in case.

RmikeVT

I, too, have seen the bottle krausen whenever I bottle styles requiring high volume CO2. In fact, I have a hefeweizen that I bottled 3 days ago with enough priming sugar for 3.6 voumes of CO2. I looked at them yesterday- no ring, but this afternoon I noticed that all the bottles had the "ring"

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I just realized this post had fairly recently been resurrected!

Since my original post, I have seen "it" with carb tabs, but not when I've primed with sugar in solution (like an entire batch). Recently I've wondered if it was a carb-tab thing...that is, if the carb tabs were fully dissolving.

Sounds like someone needs to to a time-lapse photography experiment!

Cheers,

Mike

 

[andy6026]

most of us just stick our beers in boxes in a dark closet and ignore them for 3 weeks...while brand new brewers watch their beers like a hawk...

That made me laugh hard. That's exactly what I did with my first batch.

 

[fredquimby]

Here it is again.....

I just brewed a batch of alcoholic ginger beer, priming with brown sugar (out the bag) and I used British Ale 04 dried yeast to ferment. It took 3 weeks to ferment out, then I bottle staight out the fermenter having sugared the bottles already with a teaspoon full.

I use an Enolmatic vacuum bottle (amazing it seems) and a steel pipe into the ale to be bottled.

I have had a MASSIVE krausen form at the top of the 500ml (pint) bottles. Just like a mini-fermenter would look. This was after a week at 19C in the bottles. I worked it back into the bottles, panicked for a while, and then put them all in the 4 degree fridge at arms length.

Drank one this eve however and it is awesome, with no evidence of the ring, so not too worried...... (no touching wood emoji then?!)