no hop flavor

[bj2387]

i brewed my first batch in about 9 months and just tasted a bottle of it that has conditioned for 2 weeks. I seem to keep having the same issue with my beers. not sure if its recipe construction. or sanitation or what. I use beersmith and follow that to a tee. maybe I don't have my equipment set up right in it. but I hit my numbers pretty much spot on every single time.

the last batch was a pale ale
BIAB 3.50g batch size
6lb 2 row
2lb MO
.50 c-20
hops are all mosaic
.50oz for 60
.50oz for 10
1oz for 2
1oz at flameout.
us-05yeast

it did ferment closer to 70-73 degrees so maybe a little warm. but after tasting the first bottle today, I get zero hop flavor. mostly just bitter. which seems to be the reoccurring theme. im looking for that hop flavor and just not getting it.

I guess im confused since im hitting my numbers everytime. to end up with a beer I might as well dump.

 

[Blazinlow86]

i brewed my first batch in about 9 months and just tasted a bottle of it that has conditioned for 2 weeks. I seem to keep having the same issue with my beers. not sure if its recipe construction. or sanitation or what. I use beersmith and follow that to a tee. maybe I don't have my equipment set up right in it. but I hit my numbers pretty much spot on every single time.

the last batch was a pale ale
BIAB 3.50g batch size
6lb 2 row
2lb MO
.50 c-20
hops are all mosaic
.50oz for 60
.50oz for 10
1oz for 2
1oz at flameout.
us-05yeast

it did ferment closer to 70-73 degrees so maybe a little warm. but after tasting the first bottle today, I get zero hop flavor. mostly just bitter. which seems to be the reoccurring theme. im looking for that hop flavor and just not getting it.

I guess im confused since im hitting my numbers everytime. to end up with a beer I might as well dump.

Are you compensating your timings for how long it takes for you to chill from flameout too 170ish? If not that can make a big difference in bitterness/flavor. Cheers

 

[day_trippr]

Could you post a picture of a freshly poured example? It might be illuminating.
Also, what is the source of your brewing water, and do you do any adjustments?

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

That looks like a good hop addition for a 3.5 gallon batch to me . As tripper said , water profile and a pic might help point in the right direction.

 

[IslandLizard]

Are those hops perhaps old? Have they been stored unrefrigerated/unfrozen?

 

[kh54s10]

Age of hops? Oxidation? Try skipping the 2 minute and flameout and use both as a whirlpool addition. Lower the temperature to 170 F then add the hops for about 15 - 20 minutes.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

If it's coming out too bitter keep removing hops from the hot side and using them late whirlpool(under 170-180 degrees) or not at all. Like Blazinlow said you have to take into account how quickly(or slowly) you're cooling after flameout. The recipe softwares calculate IBUs as if you're pretty much instantly cooling below isomerization temps. I do small batches as well and cool with ice bath and I've had to be very careful about my bittering charges, or else mine are too bitter.

What water are you using? If you're using tap water perhaps there's very high mineral levels messing with the taste? You may eventually want to look there if you keep having trouble getting it right.

Are you sure it's bitterness, and not astringency? Astingency has nothing to do with IBUs and can be caused by various issues I believe, ph being one. I think I've gotten astringency a few times.

I have a pale ale on tap now that's good, but the one before that was much lighter and I think I overdid the bitterness slightly on it because there wasn't much malt for it to hide behind. It's easy to do when you're not cooling very quickly.

 

[smata67]

If you are not getting the hop flavor that satisfies you, then the solution is actually quite simple. Increase the hop additions and adjust your schedule. 1 oz at 20, 15, 10, and 5 minutes. I follow this schedule religiously and I can tell you I sometimes feel I'm not getting the hop flavor I seek. Though they are usually lower AA than mosaic.

 

[bj2387]

If it's coming out too bitter keep removing hops from the hot side and using them late whirlpool(under 170-180 degrees) or not at all. Like Blazinlow said you have to take into account how quickly(or slowly) you're cooling after flameout. The recipe softwares calculate IBUs as if you're pretty much instantly cooling below isomerization temps. I do small batches as well and cool with ice bath and I've had to be very careful about my bittering charges, or else mine are too bitter.

What water are you using? If you're using tap water perhaps there's very high mineral levels messing with the taste? You may eventually want to look there if you keep having trouble getting it right.

Are you sure it's bitterness, and not astringency? Astingency has nothing to do with IBUs and can be caused by various issues I believe, ph being one. I think I've gotten astringency a few times.

I have a pale ale on tap now that's good, but the one before that was much lighter and I think I overdid the bitterness slightly on it because there wasn't much malt for it to hide behind. It's easy to do when you're not cooling very quickly.

thanks for all the comments guys.
relating to the water. I only add a campden tablet. when I lived in Cleveland my local homebrew store said that's all they used.i now live in Toledo and do not have the water report, but have just been using tap water and doing the same process.

for the hops at flameout. it probably takes 20 minutes for me to chill down to temp so that could be it.

freshness of hops I don't think is the issue. ill check into my water profile a little more as well as the hop flameout.

 

[day_trippr]

Thanks for posting the picture. The good news is that pour looks about right for the recipe, so it doesn't show obvious signs of oxidation which would be anathematic to hop presence.

I agree with the idea that the hop stand/whirlpool may have been too hot. Over the last year I gradually lowered my whirlpooling temperature from the 170°F I had been using to 150°F and have been happy with the result. Also, if you want to get smacked in the face with hop character consider adding at least an ounce or so of dry hops. I love Mosaic in general and especially as a dry hop (or even keg hop) addition.

Finally, you might consider getting a Wards Lab "brewer's water test" (W5A) for the modest cost. Water can have a significant effect wrt intensity of hop character, particularly bitterness. If your water chemistry is emphasizing bitterness it could be drowning out more subtle characters of your brews...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

Before you get your water tested find out from your water department how stable the supply's mineral quality is. If it fluctuates a lot, or seasonally, a Ward test being just a snapshot won't be very useful in the future. If you do get Ward to test it, send in the sample, don't order the stupid kit.

Your water dept. also knows the mineral composition, get to talk to the right person. They measure it at least every day, usually more often.
Look in the Brew Science forum stickies which minerals we brewers are interested in.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

First off I would ask what you think good hop flavor is like. I would think the level of hops you have would get you to the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale level of hop flavor. At least 10 years ago my club had a Pale Ale competition where SNPA was served as a calibration beer. Even then the majority of people said "not hoppy enough." These days most commercial beers are much more hoppy.

It is fairly common for hoppy beers to start at 1 oz per gal on the hot side and 1 oz per gal on as dry hops. Some add more. This recipe hits the ratio for hot side, but it seems you did not add any dry hops.

I personally like to brew fairly modestly hopped beers, but I think at least 1 oz of dry hops is needed...more if you are shooting for a more modern hop forward pale ale. I found that when I wanted to boost hop flavors in a beer, I needed to add more hops. My "old standard" Pale Ale recipe with 4 oz in a 5 gal batch just does not match up with current Pale Ales. I just kegged a few NEIPA-ish beers (1.062 OG) that used 6 oz per 2.5 gal batch, and the hop character is not as strong as I expected.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Are you sure it's bitterness, and not astringency? Astingency has nothing to do with IBUs and can be caused by various issues I believe, ph being one. I think I've gotten astringency a few times.

So I mentioned astringency in my previous post last week. Incidentally, over the weekend I had a beer from a really popular VA brewery, that usually cranks out really good stuff. My god it was bad. And it was definitely astringency, not bitterness. It just lingered and sat on the back off my tongue.

 

[shortyz]

if im brewing an nice ipa im going to use like 4oz whirlpool, and another 4 oz dry hop... (simcoe, citra, mosaic, mandarina, idaho 7)

imo your not using enough hops.