No fruity, tropical aromas or taste in my beers

[Northern_Brewer]

It's probably worth getting a municipal water report if it's convenient (here in the UK water companies post them on their websites as a matter of course, it may well be an EU requirement) - if nothing else you might be able to get some municipal water off a neighbour if it's any good, which may be rather more convenient than buying distilled water. Sometimes the municipal water analysis will be pretty close to well water, if most of the municipal water comes from ground water (eg London), but that won't be true if most of it comes from surface water. Burton is a great example of the latter - much of the Peak District has wonderfully soft water, but Burton made its name on sulphate-rich water from wells drilled into layers of gypsum below the town.

Just going back to this :

making sure to add bittering hops @ 60 mins to avoid too much bitterness

Err - this doesn't make sense. You boil bittering hops for 60 minutes to _maximise_ the bitterness you get out of them. The simple version is that hops have alpha acids which aren't bitter, but boiling them makes them change into a different form which is bitter.

But generally some bitterness is helpful, to add balance and complexity to the beer. I'd feel the same way about using non-pilsner malts - you're not conducting experiments on your guests to show off a particular hop by making the grist as neutral and pils-y as possible, you just want the best beer possible. To my mind that means a complex, balanced beer, so I wouldn't be afraid of bringing moderate bitterness and Maris Otter to the party - quite the opposite!

I am getting married i 3 months

Congratulations! On the other hand, it's now getting a bit close to be making big experiments, you just need to get some beer out. So go with what you've got. But in future, you might want to start playing with some more interesting yeast strains and messing about with fermentation temperatures - the Tree House Julius thread is now up to four different yeast at different temperatures, which may be a bit excessive for your purposes but gives you an idea about maximising fruitiness and mouthfeel. That thread is also talking about anything up to 20% caramalt as well, rather than crystal.

But for now, I'd just get some beer out....

PS You should check out Lars Garshol's blog - he's the expert on Norwegian farmhouse beer and Lithuanian beer culture, which are both unique - far more interesting than another me-too NEIPA....

 

[marjen]

For a NE IPA style. I usually do very small amount of hops in boil for bitterness. Then I drop it to about 170f and add about 4-6oz of hops. I let it sit there for 30 mins, then start chilling again. I also will add 6-8 oz of dry hop usually around day 2-3. Usually creates a good combination of fruity/citrusy taste/smell.

 

[latProd]

What kind of crystal? I find that it's easy to overdo it.

Think it was Pale Crystal malt 90EBC.
No idea what EBC is in these circumstances

 

[latProd]

Yeah if you love the taste of pilsner malt there are a ton of styles that are great just going 100%! I definitely enjoy it, it does give the hops a better spotlight but also it makes for a clean bright tasting beer. I used to do 2row and crystal ect for most of my IPAs, and still brew them for that classic style, but its almost a different style when you go 100% pilsner it is kind of hybrid between like a neipa and a pilsner.

Yeah i do love the taste of pilsner malt I've mostly bought all grain kits with recipes done for me, this is me going off recipes found here plus upping the hops to suit my taste buds. Funny enough, both the pale ale and amber ale recipes i found uses pilsner... so I'm excited to see how it turns out.
Used german pilsner from bestmaltz i think it was

 

[latProd]

Just going back to this :


Err - this doesn't make sense. You boil bittering hops for 60 minutes to _maximise_ the bitterness you get out of them. The simple version is that hops have alpha acids which aren't bitter, but boiling them makes them change into a different form which is bitter.

Yeah my bad i don't know what I was thinking, I meant 30 minutes, at the 60 minute mark. Bad wording from me

 

[latProd]

Congratulations! On the other hand, it's now getting a bit close to be making big experiments, you just need to get some beer out. So go with what you've got. But in future, you might want to start playing with some more interesting yeast strains and messing about with fermentation temperatures - the Tree House Julius thread is now up to four different yeast at different temperatures, which may be a bit excessive for your purposes but gives you an idea about maximising fruitiness and mouthfeel. That thread is also talking about anything up to 20% caramalt as well, rather than crystal.

But for now, I'd just get some beer out....

PS You should check out Lars Garshol's blog - he's the expert on Norwegian farmhouse beer and Lithuanian beer culture, which are both unique - far more interesting than another me-too NEIPA....

Thank you for all your info man, appreciate it. Will check out the thread you mention. It's not like I'm gonna stop brewing after the wedding, so more room for experiments

 

[latProd]

For a NE IPA style. I usually do very small amount of hops in boil for bitterness. Then I drop it to about 170f and add about 4-6oz of hops. I let it sit there for 30 mins, then start chilling again. I also will add 6-8 oz of dry hop usually around day 2-3. Usually creates a good combination of fruity/citrusy taste/smell.

This is the first thing I will try on my next batch. Do you only dry hop in one stage?
Also, Since i use fermenters with lids that have got tiny holes in the for the airlock, I have no way of adding dryhops without removing the lid.
Some people have suggested this can ruin my beer or at the very least mess with my hop flavors... so i dunno what to do about that really.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah my bad i don't know what I was thinking, I meant 30 minutes, at the 60 minute mark. Bad wording from me

So what, you put hops in a bag in at 60 and take them out at 30?

Boiling your bittering hops for 60 min does improve the _quality_ of the bittering, it softens it a bit, it can be a bit "raw" after just 30 minutes. So boil them for 60, if you want to reduce the amount of bittering, use fewer hops.

I have no way of adding dryhops without removing the lid.
Some people have suggested this can ruin my beer or at the very least mess with my hop flavors... so i dunno what to do about that really.

It is what it is. The point of doing it 2-3 days into fermentation is that yeast are still active and can scavenge some of the oxygen introduced, but short of going to a system where you're purging everything with inert gas, there's not a lot you can do. You can still make really good beer that way though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much.

It's not like I'm gonna stop brewing after the wedding

That's what they all say.... Like you're going to have any time or money for homebrewing once you've fixed those shelves, repainted the bedroom, rebuilt the kitchen....

 

[latProd]

It is what it is. The point of doing it 2-3 days into fermentation is that yeast are still active and can scavenge some of the oxygen introduced, but short of going to a system where you're purging everything with inert gas, there's not a lot you can do. You can still make really good beer that way though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much.




That's what they all say.... Like you're going to have any time or money for homebrewing once you've fixed those shelves, repainted the bedroom, rebuilt the kitchen....

Haha! touche I guess. I'm sure it'll be good Anyway, does that mean you use ONE dryhop addition (for a super hoppy beer let's say 6 ounces) 2-3 days into fermentation and then just leave it for a couple of weeks? no further additions after that?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Personally I'm less paranoid about opening my bucket and I tend not too brew the super-juicy style beer, so I kinda prefer to do it in 2 additions, but a single dry hop is fine if you're feeling paranoid. And they don't need long - you get the full effect of the dry hops after 2-3 days. As a style you shouldn't be leaving these kinds of beers "for a couple of weeks" - normally they use English yeast which are done fermenting in little more than a week, once you've reached a constant FG then it's time to package. And natural carbonation will help fight oxidation, as the yeast scavenge any oxygen that make it into the bottle/cask/keg. However, that's less of an issue for a one-off event like the wedding where hopefully a keg will go in one night, and you don't want to be making changes to the wedding beer that you don't have to. But after the wedding, I suggest bottling future batches with priming sugar.

If you're looking for some ideas, people seem to like this Tired Hands Alien Church NEIPA clone - you could probably simplify the hop mix to start with, as he's trying to replicate a specific beer there. This is the actual recipe of the new Fullers-Cloudwater NEIPA - Olicana is a new English hop, you could probably substitute Cascade or a NZ hop like Motueka if you can't get it.

Personally I'd look at replacing the oats with 20% carapils, oat malt may not be easy to get and oats generally are good for a soft mouth feel but may slightly reduce the hop aroma.

 

[marjen]

I usually only dry hop in one stage. Some people do 2. I have tried 2 and honestly did not notice a difference. My best beers have all been single stage. Sometimes I will also add 1 oz at pitch to the fermenter. Not sure if it helps or not so have kind of stopped doing that.

Adding the hops around day 2-3 should prevent any oxidation issues as others have said as the beer is not completely fermented and there is still CO2 being produced. I have not had any issues with oxidation with my beers. I do keg, not bottle so that may have an impact in that area. I take of a 4" or so lid on my fermenters so its really nothing to be too concerned about.

I will say just as important as the dry hop is the whirlpool hops. Its supposed to get more flavor from the whirlpool hops and more aroma with the dry hops. When combined together should create a very tasty aromatic beer.

This is the first thing I will try on my next batch. Do you only dry hop in one stage?
Also, Since i use fermenters with lids that have got tiny holes in the for the airlock, I have no way of adding dryhops without removing the lid.
Some people have suggested this can ruin my beer or at the very least mess with my hop flavors... so i dunno what to do about that really.

 

[latProd]

Personally I'm less paranoid about opening my bucket and I tend not too brew the super-juicy style beer, so I kinda prefer to do it in 2 additions, but a single dry hop is fine if you're feeling paranoid. And they don't need long - you get the full effect of the dry hops after 2-3 days. As a style you shouldn't be leaving these kinds of beers "for a couple of weeks" - normally they use English yeast which are done fermenting in little more than a week, once you've reached a constant FG then it's time to package. And natural carbonation will help fight oxidation, as the yeast scavenge any oxygen that make it into the bottle/cask/keg. However, that's less of an issue for a one-off event like the wedding where hopefully a keg will go in one night, and you don't want to be making changes to the wedding beer that you don't have to. But after the wedding, I suggest bottling future batches with priming sugar.

If you're looking for some ideas, people seem to like this Tired Hands Alien Church NEIPA clone - you could probably simplify the hop mix to start with, as he's trying to replicate a specific beer there. This is the actual recipe of the new Fullers-Cloudwater NEIPA - Olicana is a new English hop, you could probably substitute Cascade or a NZ hop like Motueka if you can't get it.

Personally I'd look at replacing the oats with 20% carapils, oat malt may not be easy to get and oats generally are good for a soft mouth feel but may slightly reduce the hop aroma.

Thank you for the info my friend, you've been more than helpful throughout this thread
I read everywhere on here that a beer will benefit greatly from sitting on the yeast cake for two to three weeks instead of packaging as soon as the desired FG is reached. Why do you propose to shorten this process?

Also, I always use bottles and priming sugar. I have no choice as I can't afford the whole keg setup at the moment.

 

[latProd]

I usually only dry hop in one stage. Some people do 2. I have tried 2 and honestly did not notice a difference. My best beers have all been single stage. Sometimes I will also add 1 oz at pitch to the fermenter. Not sure if it helps or not so have kind of stopped doing that.

Adding the hops around day 2-3 should prevent any oxidation issues as others have said as the beer is not completely fermented and there is still CO2 being produced. I have not had any issues with oxidation with my beers. I do keg, not bottle so that may have an impact in that area. I take of a 4" or so lid on my fermenters so its really nothing to be too concerned about.

I will say just as important as the dry hop is the whirlpool hops. Its supposed to get more flavor from the whirlpool hops and more aroma with the dry hops. When combined together should create a very tasty aromatic beer.

Thanks man I'm doing my second rendition of the aforementioned beer in this thread, and this time, following all of your advice, I will use a small amount of bittering hops, cool the wort a little, add loads of hops, then add loads more on day 2-3 of fermentation, and we will see how it goes.
I had a taste of the last one after a week, and boy did using distilled water with added salts make a difference. it's crisp, fruity (could be even more fruity i guess) and clear. All in all a lovely beer. Only thing I could put my finger on is it has a slightly "chalky" mouthfeel. Bear in mind it's only been in the bottle 1 week so I am assuming this will mellow out.

 

[latProd]

I usually only dry hop in one stage. Some people do 2. I have tried 2 and honestly did not notice a difference. My best beers have all been single stage. Sometimes I will also add 1 oz at pitch to the fermenter. Not sure if it helps or not so have kind of stopped doing that.

Adding the hops around day 2-3 should prevent any oxidation issues as others have said as the beer is not completely fermented and there is still CO2 being produced. I have not had any issues with oxidation with my beers. I do keg, not bottle so that may have an impact in that area. I take of a 4" or so lid on my fermenters so its really nothing to be too concerned about.

I will say just as important as the dry hop is the whirlpool hops. Its supposed to get more flavor from the whirlpool hops and more aroma with the dry hops. When combined together should create a very tasty aromatic beer.

Thanks man I'm doing my second rendition of the aforementioned beer in this thread, and this time, following all of your advice, I will use a small amount of bittering hops, cool the wort a little, add loads of hops, then add loads more on day 2-3 of fermentation, and we will see how it goes.
I had a taste of the last one after a week, and boy did using distilled water with added salts make a difference. it's crisp, fruity (could be even more fruity i guess) and clear. All in all a lovely beer. Only thing I could put my finger on is it has a slightly "chalky" mouthfeel. Bear in mind it's only been in the bottle 1 week so I am assuming this will mellow out.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I read everywhere on here that a beer will benefit greatly from sitting on the yeast cake for two to three weeks instead of packaging as soon as the desired FG is reached. Why do you propose to shorten this process

Conditioning is good - but it's mostly to smooth out some of the malt flavours and to get rid of some of the small molecules that can cause off-flavours. So you want to condition most beers. However, with this particular style of beer, it's all about the small aroma molecules from the dry hopping, so in general you want to catch them at their best - which is early - rather than wait for the other components of the beer to mature.

Probably still worth keeping a bottle or two to see how it develops with time, but in general heavy dry-hopping means you want to drink the beer early.

 

[latProd]

Conditioning is good - but it's mostly to smooth out some of the malt flavours and to get rid of some of the small molecules that can cause off-flavours. So you want to condition most beers. However, with this particular style of beer, it's all about the small aroma molecules from the dry hopping, so in general you want to catch them at their best - which is early - rather than wait for the other components of the beer to mature.

Probably still worth keeping a bottle or two to see how it develops with time, but in general heavy dry-hopping means you want to drink the beer early.

Yeah I hear you. Fortunately, i not only dry hop heavy, i whirlpool heavy The beer was two weeks in the fermenter, now bottled. They're gonna room temp condition for two weeks then straight to the fridge. Hope the aroma/taste is still good in about a months time