No Chill vs Chill in the Fermenter

[The_C_Tripp]

I have a spigot on my BK with some silicone tubing attached. So once the boil is finished I just throw the tubing into my fermenting bucket that has my wort chiller already in there. I run cold water through the wort chiller and it takes about 30 minutes for it to get down to 70 degrees or so.

I splash the wort back into the BK to aerate it a bit, then I throw my tubing into my carboy and turn on the spigot again. Shake up the carboy and pitch the yeast. Shake it once more, and throw on the air lock and leave it alone.

 

[RugenBrau]

First of all I've never done no chill brewing but I was just reading these post and have a question. onthekeg said that he throws his right into the corny which makes sense to me. If you were going to leave it for couple of days should you charge it with CO2?

 

[bonsai4tim]

I only tried to chill the first 2 brews (almost 2 years ago), the next 40+ batches were BIAB no chill.

In the winter, I let it chill in the e-keggle in the garage (with a lid) overnight.

In the summer, it goes from boiling to the ferment bucket and then inside next to an AC vent. Usually takes 24 hours to reach room temp.

I usually pull a quart off the boil kettle early on and put it in the freezer for an hour, and use it for a starter.

 

[dantheman13]

First of all I've never done no chill brewing but I was just reading these post and have a question. onthekeg said that he throws his right into the corny which makes sense to me. If you were going to leave it for couple of days should you charge it with CO2?

What is your reasoning to possibly charge it with CO2? We want oxygen in the wort before fermentation, so that isn't an issue. Is there another reason you were thinking of?

BTW, thanks for bumping this. I have an update, sorta. I brewed my last batch using edmanster's methods. After the boil, I put in my late hop additions, and I did a short water bath to get the temperature down to 175F. This only took 10 minutes if even that. I then dumped my hot wort into my plastic fermenter, and sealed it with an airlock. I stuck it in my fermenting freezer, and left it over night. The next day, I pitched some S05.

The beer is bottled now, and tasted (and looked) great at bottling time. It is a CDA though, so clarity won't be a factor, but the beer did look clear in the tubing as I bottled. There was quite a bit more hop material at the bottom of the fermenter than my last batch which was brewed with a very similar recipe (and chilled with an ice bath), but this beer smelled much better. I just hope there isn't too much grassy flavor from the hop material when the beer matures (none detectable at bottling time). I did let this ferment in the primary for about 4 weeks, so I am a little worried about the hop material giving it a grassy taste.

I had another problem with this beer that is unrelated to no chill. I won't go into great detail since it is off subject, but it is worth mentioning just in case the beer has flavor issues... for some reason my mash didn't extract nearly enough sugar, and my mash gravity was way off. I should have extended my mash time looking back now, but instead I chose to add some DME after the boil to bring the gravity up to where it should have been. Oh well.

I only did a 60 minute boil, so we'll see if there is any detectable DMS flavor. Of course, with a CDA, that probably won't be a factor.

Thanks again for all the responses here!

 

[Fetus]

I've done no chill once, on a berliner weisse. It was an authentic, mash hopped, no boil, single decoction berliner weisse, with no chill. My hose I use for chilling suffered a catastrophic failure, and so I ran off right into my boil kettle, and brought the wort up to 180. Threw the lid on, and killed the heat. I left it right in the pot for ~24 hours, and then racked into a fermentor and pitched my lacto culture.

I've not detected any DMS in this beer at all. It actually tastes phenomenal right now. Can't wait to get it kegged and carbed.

 

[nutty_gnome]

If you no chill in the kettle then you don't have to worry about handling hot wort or a cube. You just pop on a sanitized lid and let it sit for 18 to 24 hours. The hops and trub fall to tbe bottom and then you can siphon or just dump into your carboy or bucket. I've been doing that for over a year now. No clarity issues and no dms in around 25 batches.

Seriously, why handle boiling hot sugar water if you don't have to?

 

[midfielder5]

If you no chill in the kettle then you don't have to worry about handling hot wort or a cube. You just pop on a sanitized lid and let it sit for 18 to 24 hours. The hops and trub fall to tbe bottom and then you can siphon or just dump into your carboy or bucket. I've been doing that for over a year now. No clarity issues and no dms in around 25 batches.

Seriously, why handle boiling hot sugar water if you don't have to?

This is what I do. I leave behind a lot of hops & crud in my BK ... so now I just make sure I have ~ 0.5 gallons more of run off during sparge, so I get a full fermenter.
My only issue is that it postpones clean up of the BK.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If you no chill in the kettle then you don't have to worry about handling hot wort or a cube. You just pop on a sanitized lid and let it sit for 18 to 24 hours. The hops and trub fall to tbe bottom and then you can siphon or just dump into your carboy or bucket. I've been doing that for over a year now. No clarity issues and no dms in around 25 batches.

Seriously, why handle boiling hot sugar water if you don't have to?

Ok, I'll admit it. I have done the 4-5 batches no chill in the kettle, and then ferment right in the kettle. Basicly I just put a sanitized lid on the kettle and when below say 80 degrees I put it in my chest freezer/fermenator to bring it down to temperature. Once chilled I pitch yeast and ferment in the kettle w/ the lid on. Usually I cover the lidded pot w/ a thightly secured plastic bag after the initial ferment. After 10-12 days I cold crash and rack to a keg. Beer hasn't suffered and I have increased flameout and dryhop additions to counter the no-chill. Very simple

 

[Erroneous]

Ok, I'll admit it. I have done the 4-5 batches no chill in the kettle, and then ferment right in the kettle. Basicly I just put a sanitized lid on the kettle and when below say 80 degrees I put it in my chest freezer/fermenator to bring it down to temperature. Once chilled I pitch yeast and ferment in the kettle w/ the lid on. Usually I cover the lidded pot w/ a thightly secured plastic bag after the initial ferment. After 10-12 days I cold crash and rack to a keg. Beer hasn't suffered and I have increased flameout and dryhop additions to counter the no-chill. Very simple

Wow, that takes equipment costs down! Don't think I'd do it since I like to have more than one thing fermenting at once, but good on you. Is your pot large enough to not get krausen pouring out on a vigorous fermentation?

My method has been similar to what others have said. After boil, water bath until under ~140, then pour through sanitized double mesh colander into my Ale Pale. I put the lid on (no airlock since the wort might suck in the water/vodka) and set my ferm fridge to the temperature. When it hits ferm temps I pitch yeast (normally 8+ hours). My next batch I'm going to water bath, colander over bottling bucket, then let that drop from counter height into ale pale through the spigot. Thanks dfc for that idea. Should provide great aeration and if I turn off the AC it'll minimize any possible infections from air microbes.

 

[nutty_gnome]

This is what I do. I leave behind a lot of hops & crud in my BK ... so now I just make sure I have ~ 0.5 gallons more of run off during sparge, so I get a full fermenter.
My only issue is that it postpones clean up of the BK.

Aha! I knew I wasn't the only one. Thank you kind sir for being a kindred spirit.

 

[bottlebomber]

One potential problem witht this is that above 140 degrees wort produces sulfur compounds. They get boiled off during the boil, but when you are bringing the temp down the longer it takes to get under 140 the more of these you are going to have. Also you wont get your cold break if you just let the temp drift down

 

[smokinghole]

I have not had a problem with sulfur nor with a lack of break. If you see the wort in a clear fermentor in the morning you can see the cold break.

To further counter you claim of no cold break most pro breweries will whirlpool and then send the wort through a heat exchanger. There is plenty of break and hops sludge in the whirlpool, I've cleaned one a few times, so cold break forms regardless of a huge temp shock. I suspect the biggest reason pro breweries don't no-chill is because of time. If it takes us 18-24 hours to get our 5-10 gal batches to chill to a pitching temp it'd take them 3-5 days minimum.

 

[nutty_gnome]

I can echo Smokingholes statements and reaffirm that the 'bogeymen' mentioned above aren't real assuming you aren't doing anything profoundly stupid.

 

[bigljd]

FYI - I was doing no chill all last winter and early spring by letting the wort cool to about 185 and then draining into one of the US Plastic's 5 gal Win Pack and pitching the next day. Brewing with this method I took one 3rd place ribbon for a special bitter at the Charleston SC homebrew comp, and a 3rd for a ESB and a 3rd for a wheat beer at the Charlotte NC US Open homebrew comp. So if anyone tells you good beer can't be made this way they are on crack.
After saying that, I've since started chilling again since I don't think I was getting as much flavor and aroma from the hops as I'd like even using the hop schedule adjustments discussed in the no chill thread. I've been doing some IPA's lately that require a lot of late addition hops, and I don't think no chill is very good for these styles of beer. You can compensate to some extent by dry hopping or making a hop tea and adding it post fermentation, but so far I think the hops come thru better when chilling. For stouts, porters or other beers with one or no late hop additions I think no chill is great.

 

[ghpeel]

FYI - I was doing no chill all last winter and early spring by letting the wort cool to about 185 and then draining into one of the US Plastic's 5 gal Win Pack and pitching the next day. Brewing with this method I took one 3rd place ribbon for a special bitter at the Charleston SC homebrew comp, and a 3rd for a ESB and a 3rd for a wheat beer at the Charlotte NC US Open homebrew comp. So if anyone tells you good beer can't be made this way they are on crack.
After saying that, I've since started chilling again since I don't think I was getting as much flavor and aroma from the hops as I'd like even using the hop schedule adjustments discussed in the no chill thread. I've been doing some IPA's lately that require a lot of late addition hops, and I don't think no chill is very good for these styles of beer. You can compensate to some extent by dry hopping or making a hop tea and adding it post fermentation, but so far I think the hops come thru better when chilling. For stouts, porters or other beers with one or no late hop additions I think no chill is great.

Awesome. Glad to hear you won with No Chill beers. I agree with you on the thing about the hop aroma. I've experimented with hop teas and extra dry hopping, but haven't found the perfect replacement for those 15 to 1 minute hop additions in a chilled batch.

I've done 3 lager beers now, all of which are not chill, two if which had Pils as the base malt, and NONE of them have any DMS, sulphur or diactyl in the final product. Lagers, with their typically low aroma hopping, are a perfect style for the No Chill technique.

As a side note, I no longer believe No Chill flameout additions contribute the bitterness of 15-20min additions. My own experiments indicate that they contribute ZERO bitterness, believe it or not. Flavor wise, I believe these late additions contribute like dry hopping done in primary, before fermentation is done. Meaning that most of their aroma gets blown out by the CO2 leaving the vessel. YMMV.

 

[jason.mundy]

As a side note, I no longer believe No Chill flameout additions contribute the bitterness of 15-20min additions.

I have an idea that I want to test with "No Chill".

Most of my beer recipes have a 60 minute hop addition, followed by another at the end of the boil. I've done a "No Chill" german pilsner. The beer was overly bitter due to the 200F+ wort in the cube continuing to convert the hops into IBUs. I had thrown an ounce of hops in the cube and racked the hot wort on top of them for my 10 minute addition.

My theory is that if I only use 60 minutes hops in the boil kettle, there will not be a significant increase in bitterness from the 60 minute hops while the beer cools down to ambient temp. After boiling for 60 minutes, you've already extracted over 90% of the hop's maximum bitterness

For those recipes that need a 10 min, 5 min, or 1 min hop addition, I have a new plan. I won't do the late minute additions on brew day. Instead, I'll do them on the day I move the wort from the cube to the carboy.

When I rack from the cube to the carboy, I will divert 32oz of wort into an electric teapot. The rest will go into the carboy.

I'll bring the 32 oz of wort up to a boil again. I'll add my late addition hop to the teapot and boil for the 10, 5, or 1 minute. When the time is up, I'll pour the contents of the teapot into the carboy through a funnel lined with nylon mesh.

The 32oz of boiling wort should bring the temperature of wort in the carboy up by 7 degrees. So I can either start with 60 degree wort or wait for the temperature to come back down to where I feel comfortable pitching my yeast.

 

[DEWSBREW]

I have never chilled, I take the brew pot straight (with lid on) to the ferment chamber, at a minimum leave it overnight, and have gone as long as several days before pouring into the bucket. I have never had any off flavors, infections or booogey men in my beers. But I too add 1/2 gal extra wort to compensate for the gunk in the bottom of the pot. The chamber stays set at 62 degrees, dont mess with what works and allows laziness : )

 

[thughes]

I have an idea that I want to test with "No Chill".

Most of my beer recipes have a 60 minute hop addition, followed by another at the end of the boil. I've done a "No Chill" german pilsner. The beer was overly bitter due to the 200F+ wort in the cube continuing to convert the hops into IBUs. I had thrown an ounce of hops in the cube and racked the hot wort on top of them for my 10 minute addition.

My theory is that if I only use 60 minutes hops in the boil kettle, there will not be a significant increase in bitterness from the 60 minute hops while the beer cools down to ambient temp. After boiling for 60 minutes, you've already extracted over 90% of the hop's maximum bitterness

For those recipes that need a 10 min, 5 min, or 1 min hop addition, I have a new plan. I won't do the late minute additions on brew day. Instead, I'll do them on the day I move the wort from the cube to the carboy.

When I rack from the cube to the carboy, I will divert 32oz of wort into an electric teapot. The rest will go into the carboy.

I'll bring the 32 oz of wort up to a boil again. I'll add my late addition hop to the teapot and boil for the 10, 5, or 1 minute. When the time is up, I'll pour the contents of the teapot into the carboy through a funnel lined with nylon mesh.

The 32oz of boiling wort should bring the temperature of wort in the carboy up by 7 degrees. So I can either start with 60 degree wort or wait for the temperature to come back down to where I feel comfortable pitching my yeast.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55801

 

[jason.mundy]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55801

Thanks thughes. That is exactly what I was planning. It was a good read.

I have about 8 or so beers that I plan on entering into the state fair. I think that this will be the method I use.

 

[ghpeel]

I have an idea that I want to test with "No Chill".

..........

For those recipes that need a 10 min, 5 min, or 1 min hop addition, I have a new plan. I won't do the late minute additions on brew day. Instead, I'll do them on the day I move the wort from the cube to the carboy.

When I rack from the cube to the carboy, I will divert 32oz of wort into an electric teapot. The rest will go into the carboy.

I'll bring the 32 oz of wort up to a boil again. I'll add my late addition hop to the teapot and boil for the 10, 5, or 1 minute. When the time is up, I'll pour the contents of the teapot into the carboy through a funnel lined with nylon mesh.

The 32oz of boiling wort should bring the temperature of wort in the carboy up by 7 degrees. So I can either start with 60 degree wort or wait for the temperature to come back down to where I feel comfortable pitching my yeast.

I have done this a few times, and to be fair, I'm not quite sure how well it works. It seems like by boiling these finishing hops in a miniscule amount of wort, the utilization gets weird, and you don't seem to get much of anything from them.

I HAVE A THEORY - BEAR WITH ME.....

In "normal" brewing, we talk about a "5 minute addition" (for example). Meaning that we throw some hops in "for 5 minutes" before the wort is chilled. HOWEVER, there is not a glycol-cooled plate chiller in the world that can bring down that wort from 212F to 60 within a minute or two, so really that "5 minute addition" is boiled for 5, but steeped in hot wort for 20-30 minutes or so until its basically room temp and any meaningful extraction of flavor stops.

In fact, if you read up on a lot of semi-pro brewers like Mike McDole, there is a large numbers of brewers who turn off their kettles, then just sit and wait for up to 20 minutes before turning on their chillers. (McDole was the guy who won the Sam Adams Longshot for a Double IPA, so he knows a thing or two about hoppy beers.)

So in this experiment, when you cook for the hops for 15/10/5/whatever, and then immediately throw that into the cool wort, it drops the temp of the boiling hops instantly. As such, I believe that this makes for an ineffective way of adding hop flavor.

I have made a couple beers using up to maybe 1.5oz on average in each in the exact manner that you are describing, and the hop flavor was very, very weak.

So I suggest that if you want to try this, that you (a) use a little more hops than you normally would (maybe 20% more), (b) boil the hops in at least a half gallon of wort (full gallon would be better), and (c) let the boiled wort/hops steep by themselves for 15min AFTER you kill the heat before you pour them back into the main wort.

Please post back your results, and good luck! I'd LOVE to finally nail down hoppy beers done with the No Chill style, because so far my own efforts have been a little underwhelming. No bad or flawed, just weak in the hop flavor department.

 

[thughes]

Seems those Aussies are always a step ahead when it comes to any of the non-traditional brewing methods.