No Chill Case Study

[pnj]

I'm down. fully. If it doesn't work for me, I go back to my old IC.

For those that dump their hot wort into a Ale Pail, do you ferment in that same pail or do you dump/siphon into another container and pitch?

How do you airiate it before pitching?

Buckets aren't known for super tight fitting lids. Is there no worry that while the wort cools and the bucket contracts(or whatever it's doing) that bad things will slip in through the poor seal on the lid?

 

[The Pol]

I'm down. fully. If it doesn't work for me, I go back to my old IC.

For those that dump their hot wort into a Ale Pail, do you ferment in that same pail or do you dump/siphon into another container and pitch?

How do you airiate it before pitching?

Buckets aren't known for super tight fitting lids. Is there no worry that while the wort cools and the bucket contracts(or whatever it's doing) that bad things will slip in through the poor seal on the lid?

I have heard some say that they have had thier pails buckle from the vaccuum... so?

 

[bob1852]

I have heard some say that they have had thier pails buckle from the vaccuum... so?

sounds like a reason to chill

I applaud the work that the no chill folks are doing -- keep it up and keep posting.

 

[The Pol]

The Winpaks are like $15... much cheaper than a BB or a GC.

 

[bob1852]

come on Pol, there has to be at least ONE downside to no chill!

You've busted DMS, chill haze, cold break, cost, water use in chilling, etc, etc.

can you throw us a bone?

 

[Fatgodzilla]

come on Pol, there has to be at least ONE downside to no chill! ...can you throw us a bone?

Keep the good fight going Brother Pol. :rockin:

Do you need the bloke to come out and ram the bloody thing down your throats ? The only downside is occasionally you get a dirty / wet floor as you overfill the cube !

The beer won't taste no different. All the crap you are worrying about just isn't there ! You blokes scared of the boogeyman too ?

No chill isn't revolutionary, ground breaking or the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's just a good step between hot wort and pitching yeast on a cool wort. Use it if you aint got a chiller, use it if you aint got enough water to chill with. Use it when the chiller clogs.

I no chill as I'm happy to segregate wort making from beer making. I no chill, wait till things cool down, then clean up the mess. My fermenting bench is the same as my brewing bench. The wort stays in the cube for between a day and a few months, waiting for when I'm ready to brew.

Other times we'll do a 200 litre batch with mates and everyone takes home a 20l cube of wort. Had fun making the wort, take home and ferment at home.

No chill. Use it if you want. Don't use it if you don't want. It is as simple as that. Just don't go looking for something that aint there. Grow up and stop looking for pots of gold at the end of the rainbow

Good brewing

 

[roylee]

Well said, Fatgodzilla. It was Thirsty Boy from your Aussie forum who convinced me to try slowchill a year ago and I've thanked him since. Hops additions take some adjustment, but the method works fine. Hal, though, who posted the original on this thread, has been pretty much ignored. I for one salute him for his record keeping and attention to detail, and look forward to his evaluation of an old bottle of no-chill.

 

[The Pol]

There is a downside, you get to pitch the yeast whenever you want. It sucks.

I mean, I personally see a few benefits that some dont.

#1. You are not cooling an open kettle of wort to pitching temps, where there is a small chance of infection

#2. The hot wort will heat sanitize your container, and in my case, fermentor

#3. The wort then cools in a sealed and sanitary environment

FatGodzilla... we are a nation of consumption here in the US. How would they get us to consume all of these fancy gadgets if they werent great at marketing the need for them? Or, if we werent so gullible? You cant sell chillers if you start telling people how to brew without them... come on, there is no money in that. I dont have a horse in that race, I am selling nothing.

Unlike those trying to sell equipment, I dont make a claim about a process or method unless I have tried it. And then, I only speak to those points that I have personally tested and have data regarding. There are plenty of questions here that I cant answer about no chill, and I am unwilling to speculate. I am not selling anything, and I am not going to make claims that are untested in my brewery.

 

[Homercidal]

How then would B3/NB/etc sell lots of shiny wort chillers if they said no-chill was good?

Yes, I'm that cynical...

I see. Normally, I'm that cynical, but it must have passed over me at that point.

I am very excited to see some studies on this, and it might give me a reason to do some experimenting myself. I suddenly find myself going from standing by my old CFC, to seriously thinking about using No Chill as a regular option.

I think we need to see some of these beers going off to comps and see how they do. See how they fare against the accepted practices when judged by the experts. Having that kind of clout is sure to make it an accepted practice.

As I've admitted already, I'm no great taster, but if someone wants to send me a couple of no chill beers to try, I'd be happy to evaluate them.

 

[The Pol]

HBTers have drank them at my home with me.

 

[flyangler18]

In that same episode they write off no chill brewing as well.

That's patently wrong. Jamil does not write it off at all; in fact, both he and Palmer recognize that the process can make very good beer. The rest of the peanut gallery on the show are another matter entirely. Palmer goes on to say that if you maintain a rolling boil of the appropriate length, then the method of cooling becomes less important.

If you listen to the episode with about 5 minutes remaining, you'll hear what I'm talking about.

The reality is, everyone has their own threshold levels regarding process, quality and assumed risk. I don't doubt that no-chill brewing can produce very good beer, but we're all guilty of self-evaluating our beers so that must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[craigd]

come on Pol, there has to be at least ONE downside to no chill!

You've busted DMS, chill haze, cold break, cost, water use in chilling, etc, etc.

can you throw us a bone?

OK, some of the Aussies have mentioned weak hop aroma and flavor. This too has been worked around though with dry hopping and shifting the flavor hop timing to later or even in the cube I have heard.

Pol, have you changed your hop schedule at all to compensate or have you even needed to?

 

[The Pol]

OK, some of the Aussies have mentioned weak hop aroma and flavor. This too has been worked around though with dry hopping and shifting the flavor hop timing to later or even in the cube I have heard.

Pol, have you changed your hop schedule at all to compensate or have you even needed to?

I created a hop addition chart for no chill, it is in several places here on HBT. It is probably not perfect, but it helps and many have used it.

 

[The Pol]

That's patently wrong. Jamil does not write it off at all; in fact, both he and Palmer recognize that the process can make very good beer. The rest of the peanut gallery on the show are another matter entirely. Palmer goes on to say that if you maintain a rolling boil of the appropriate length, then the method of cooling becomes less important.

If you listen to the episode with about 5 minutes remaining, you'll hear what I'm talking about.

The reality is, everyone has their own threshold levels regarding process, quality and assumed risk. I don't doubt that no-chill brewing can produce very good beer, but we're all guilty of self-evaluating our beers so that must be taken with a grain of salt.

I will have to go back and listen to it, but I dont recall them saying that it can make very good beer. My bad.

"But still BUY MY WHIRLPOOL CHLLER OR DIE!" ha ha

 

[Tonedef131]

You keep saying that he wants people to buy "his" whirlpool chiller. He does not build or sell those, he is simply telling people what process he has found to be most effective for chilling. I think Jamil is as big of a pompous ********* as the next guy but you are making it sound like he is trying to capitalize of something that you can't even buy. It's something you have to build yourself...actually it's pretty much just a pump added to an immersion chiller.

 

[flyangler18]

"But still BUY MY WHIRLPOOL CHLLER OR DIE!" ha ha

Say what you will about him, but it's difficult to argue with all those awards.

For the record, I use a CFC - less exhaust water, self-contained, more efficient than a typical IC. It's served me well over many batches.

 

[The Pol]

You keep saying that he wants people to buy "his" whirlpool chiller. He does not build or sell those, he is simply telling people what process he has found to be most effective for chilling. I think Jamil is as big of a pompous ********* as the next guy but you are making it sound like he is trying to capitalize of something that you can't even buy. It's something you have to build yourself...actually it's pretty much just a pump added to an immersion chiller.

You cant buy it? Better go look at B3, whome if I recall, he has a close relationship with. Not like they mention JAMIL in the ad. No... you are right. I am sure there is no kickback since he invented it and B3 is selling it for him.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/9146//Wort_Chiller_Recirculation_Package_-_Option_One

 

[Tonedef131]

You mean you cant buy the components at B3? Whome he has a close relationship with, did they remove the equipement from thier site?

Yeah I am sure you can buy them from B3...and Northern Brewer, and Midwest, and Austin, and Brewers Warehouse...and any reputable homebrew shop in the world that sells immersion chillers and march pumps.

 

[flyangler18]

See for yourself.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah I am sure you can buy them from B3...and Northern Brewer, and Midwest, and Austin, and Brewers Warehouse...and any reputable homebrew shop in the world that sells immersion chillers and march pumps.

With his NAME IN THE AD, and he is he INVENTOR... so, you really think he gets NOTHING from that? You are right, completely unbiased.

 

[Tonedef131]

With his NAME IN THE AD, and he is he INVENTOR... so, you really think he gets NOTHING from that? You are right, completely unbiased.

I have no idea man but you seem to be pretty convinced that he is making a fortune off of that $12 piece of tubing by pushing it all over an internet radio show that he volunteers for and does for free. So you must be right that even though he is filthy rich he is really digging for his $0.83 royalties off of each copper chunk sold by his LHBS even though on his own website he says "I have no financial interest in this at all. I think you could make this yourself fairly easy without ever buying anything from a homebrew shop."

I have also heard him mention this numerous times on the shows and never one mention B3 in the same segment.

 

[flyangler18]

With his NAME IN THE AD, and he is he INVENTOR... so, you really think he gets NOTHING from that?

I doubt he holds a patent on the device. Check the page on Mr. Malty where he states he does not benefit financially from the WIC, or even better, email him and ask him yourself. I've done so many times and always found him to be pleasant and cordial.

I gotta say, Pol, your arrogance is pretty astounding.

 

[The Pol]

Yah, I am arrogant, welcome to most of HBT. Because I claim what? That I know better? That the processes I use are better? Best? The only? Must haves? Must use? Anything else is inferior?

 

[flyangler18]

Yah, I am arrogant, welcome to most of HBT. Because I claim what? That I know better? That the processes I use are better? Best? The only? Must haves? Must use? Anything else is inferior?

Thanks for making this all about you as usual.

Have fun stroking your ego.

 

[The Pol]

Thanks for making this all about you as usual.

Have fun stroking your ego.

It would be more fun, if youd stop by and stroke it for me....

 

[Whiskey]

I have to disagree with the Pol on this one, I'd doubt he's getting a kick back. It is more likely they are using his name to sell a product. Kind of like on HBT folks will use his name as like he is the messiah of home brewing, "Jamil said he never uses a secondary, therefor it must be true" etc, ad nauseum.

It would be kind of like if Flyangler18 started selling all electric brew stands based after The Pols design, and touted them as being "As seen in BYO, and invented by HBT'er The Pol". Just using a name or association to sell a product, people are that stupid.

 

[Homercidal]

Can we get back on track here? I'm only interested in results of no chill brewing. I could care less if Jamil gets any money for his "invention" or not.

I think the thing that he tries to get across in his podcast is that he uses only the BEST process that he can do. That might mean not taking any chance at all with chilling, which is why he goes to the extreme of using a WIC. The question is, does it really help? Or does he win awards because of the other things he is doing right?

My comment on submitting no chill beers to experts means that I think the process would get more recognition if it won awards, or at least got professional feedback to indicate if there is any problem with the process.

Just having some people drink your beer doesn't carry the same weight as being recognized by trained professionals (BJCP judges), who can compare it directly with other beers of similar style.

Only when this type of feedback is had will anyone take this seriously. There are too many naysayers in this hobby (even with the large number of experimenters) to try and make a push for it's use without that kind of attention.

 

[Homercidal]

Also, I don't personally know Jamil, but a guy at work has emailed him a question or two and always gotten a very friendly and helpful response right away. I've heard similar stories by others. So, even if he does get money for helping to sell a product, at least he seems to be a person who honestly cares about helping people make better homebrew.

 

[The Pol]

I have to disagree with the Pol on this one, I'd doubt he's getting a kick back. It is more likely they are using his name to sell a product. Kind of like on HBT folks will use his name as like he is the messiah of home brewing, "Jamil said he never uses a secondary, therefor it must be true" etc, ad nauseum.

It would be kind of like if Flyangler18 started selling all electric brew stands based after The Pols design, and touted them as being "As seen in BYO, and invented by HBT'er The Pol". Just using a name or association to sell a product, people are that stupid.

You may be right, but I neer stated that he was getting a kickback, if you read my post. It is possible with his association, but then again I dont have all of Jamils personal info... so I dont know this. Others do, so I stand corrected.

To that end, if I invent something, I will be a strong proponent of it... obviously. Otherwise I would not have invented it.

I know some of you typically dont like what I have to say, but if you want to have a discussion about your personal feelings, just PM me so we can talk about it instead of tainting the threads.

 

[The Pol]

There are a few BJCP judges in a club in Louisville that are going to be getting some no chill to try. An HBTer here is in thier club and a friend of mine.

I will have several to send. An SNPA, Blonde, and Hefe

I just need to build the non-beer gun beer gun