Newbie with some questions

[Habs]

Hi everyone. I'm a winemaker, but I got my husband a beer kit for christmas. We've already tore into it and I'm wondering if my winemaking knowledge applies in some of these areas.

So first of all we brewed an Amber Ale Block Party Amber Ale Beer Recipe Kit and bottled.
Now we have a porter going Bourbon Barrel Porter Beer Recipe Kit

The questions:
To my nose, the Amber Ale has a strong yeasty flavor. There are a number of factors I'm considering for the cause of this. Did we bottle with the FG too high? He has it on his phone, but I think it was 1.01-ish. Have we just, in our anxiousness to try our first beer, opened too early at week 2 instead of 4? Should we have stirred a bit in primary to air off the yeast flavor? None of the instructions list a target FG for bottling day, but this winemaker shoots for dry at 1.000 or lower. Is that instinct correct?

How long is too long in primary? Our room is 78F but after day 3 the cap dies off and the yeast take their sweet time.

Thanks, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions, haha

 

[grampamark]

Your yeast flavor could come from the sediment in the bottom of the bottle. It’s not considered proper to drink homebrew from the bottle, but rather to pour, slowly, into a glass and leave the last half ounce, or so, in the bottle, leaving the yeast behind.

Your primary temp was pretty high. 78° ambient temp means your beer temp was in the 80s. Those kind of temps can produce some undesirable flavors. Your beer might also benefit from another week of conditioning.

The kit description indicates an OG of 1.043. Most beer yeasts will attenuate in the 70-75% range so your FG would have been around .010-012. You won’t get beer down to .000.

Most brewers leave beer in primary for 10-14 days. Most also try to control fermentation temps, one way or another. Temp control is most important for the first 3-5 days. By then the krausen will be starting to drop and the bulk of active fermentation will be complete. The remaining time in primary is to allow the yeast to “clean up” after themselves and to allow the trub and yeast to settle out of the beer. To keep your ferm temps in the desired range (65-70° for ales) you can place your fermenter in a plastic tote or one of those plastic tubs with rope handles and fill the tub with cold tap water. Putting in a couple of frozen milk jugs, or similar, will help keep the temp down. If you can keep the beer temp, not the room temp, below 70° for the first few days you will almost certainly see an improvement in your beer’s flavor.

There is also the option of using one of the Kviek strains of yeast if you don’t have the option of temp control. Those yeasts will ferment quickly and cleanly in the 80-100° range. I have no experience with those yeasts (I have a temp-controlled ferm chamber) but those who have used them report good results.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Did we bottle with the FG too high? He has it on his phone, but I think it was 1.01-ish

Can't tell from this as the FG could be between 1.010 - 1.019 which is a huge difference for beer. Also, OG impacts FG so without knowing OG, attenuation cannot be determined. Can you provide more exact readings for both?

Have we just, in our anxiousness to try our first beer, opened too early at week 2 instead of 4?

Possibly as some of the yeast may still be in suspension. It is probably fully carbed though, if you conditioned it a 78F. What temp did you condition it at?

Should we have stirred a bit in primary to air off the yeast flavor?

You should never stir the primary unless just before pitching the yeast to aerate your wort or to rouse the yeast. Oxygenating beer after fermentation starts will ruin it.

None of the instructions list a target FG for bottling day, but this winemaker shoots for dry at 1.000 or lower. Is that instinct correct?

Good thoughts, but incorrect. Beer typical finishes somewhere between 1.008 - 1.018 dependent on style. Some styles will deviate from this range

How long is too long in primary? Our room is 78F but after day 3 the cap dies off and the yeast take their sweet time.

78F is way too warm to ferment beer. Most ale yeasts operate best between 62 - 70 dependent on the strain. Also if the ambient temperature of the room was 78F your beer probably fermented even warmer. You should expect some off flavors. For next time, if you have no way to control temp, wrap the fermenter in a wet towel and blow a fan on it. At 78F you should expect most of the fermentation to finish quickly so the 3 day seems about right. That said, you should leave it at least a week to let yeast clean up some of their byproducts and to ensure it is fully done so as not to create bottle bombs. Many brewers take two gravity samples a few days apart when fermentation is finished to confirm that it in fact is.

 

[Spartan1979]

How soon after brewing did you bottle? It's possible you bottled too soon.

Other than gently stirring when you add your priming sugar, you don't want to stir more than that because you may ending up adding oxygen that you don't want at that point.

1.008-1.014 is a normal FG for beers with a moderate SG.

 

[TurnipGreen]

the stronger yeast flavor could be a handful of things. The most obvious is just like you said, too young in the bottle. Every yeast is a little different. I like to drink a couple “green” beers to figure out how long each yeast needs to bottle condition.

It could also be a bit of an under pitch of yeast, a more predominant tasting yeast, or a bit off balance with the hops

1.010-1.014 is plenty dry for an amber. 1.016-1.019 would be on the sweet side. I don’t measure ales anymore. I just leave them in the primary for 2-3 weeks. A month is too long for most of my beers, but I’ve kept high gravity beers several months. 78 warm for most ales, but shouldn’t be detrimental for most strains. If you followed the instructions, I’m sure it’s good on those fronts.

Unlike wine, for beer you never, ever, ever want to stir after fermentation has kicked off. It’s good before you pitch the yeast, but not after. Stirring or splashing around after will introduce oxygen and that will make your malts taste bland and flat and suck all the wonderfulness out of your hops

 

[Habs]

Your yeast flavor could come from the sediment in the bottom of the bottle. It’s not considered proper to drink homebrew from the bottle, but rather to pour, slowly, into a glass and leave the last half ounce, or so, in the bottle, leaving the yeast behind.

Your primary temp was pretty high. 78° ambient temp means your beer temp was in the 80s. Those kind of temps can produce some undesirable flavors. Your beer might also benefit from another week of conditioning.

The kit description indicates an OG of 1.043. Most beer yeasts will attenuate in the 70-75% range so your FG would have been around .010-012. You won’t get beer down to .000.

Most brewers leave beer in primary for 10-14 days. Most also try to control fermentation temps, one way or another. Temp control is most important for the first 3-5 days. By then the krausen will be starting to drop and the bulk of active fermentation will be complete. The remaining time in primary is to allow the yeast to “clean up” after themselves and to allow the trub and yeast to settle out of the beer. To keep your ferm temps in the desired range (65-70° for ales) you can place your fermenter in a plastic tote or one of those plastic tubs with rope handles and fill the tub with cold tap water. Putting in a couple of frozen milk jugs, or similar, will help keep the temp down. If you can keep the beer temp, not the room temp, below 70° for the first few days you will almost certainly see an improvement in your beer’s flavor.

There is also the option of using one of the Kviek strains of yeast if you don’t have the option of temp control. Those yeasts will ferment quickly and cleanly in the 80-100° range. I have no experience with those yeasts (I have a temp-controlled ferm chamber) but those who have used them report good results.

Good information, thank you. I don't think my reds particularly enjoy the warm temps either, though I've never had off flavors from it (RC212 seems fairly tolerant). Thankfully our fermenting room connects to the garage and I can just crack the door to cool it down in there. What off temps are made from too warm a ferment? I want to know if I can detect them in the Amber. We'll look into the Kviek for summer time, when cracking the door is only going to blow in 100º air. Very valuable tip, thank you.

Can't tell from this as the FG could be between 1.010 - 1.019 which is a huge difference for beer. Also, OG impacts FG so without knowing OG, attenuation cannot be determined. Can you provide more exact readings for both?



Possibly as some of the yeast may still be in suspension. It is probably fully carbed though, if you conditioned it a 78F. What temp did you condition it at?



You should never stir the primary unless just before pitching the yeast to aerate your wort or to rouse the yeast. Oxygenating beer after fermentation starts will ruin it.



Good thoughts, but incorrect. Beer typical finishes somewhere between 1.008 - 1.018 dependent on style. Some styles will deviate from this range


78F is way too warm to ferment beer. Most ale yeasts operate best between 62 - 70 dependent on the strain. Also if the ambient temperature of the room was 78F your beer probably fermented even warmer. You should expect some off flavors. For next time, if you have no way to control temp, wrap the fermenter in a wet towel and blow a fan on it. At 78F you should expect most of the fermentation to finish quickly so the 3 day seems about right. That said, you should leave it at least a week to let yeast clean up some of their byproducts and to ensure it is fully done so as not to create bottle bombs. Many brewers take two gravity samples a few days apart when fermentation is finished to confirm that it in fact is.

Conditioning means letting it sit in the bottle, right? 78-ish. Our house is always around 80, with the laundry room (our lab) being further away from the wood stove and thus a few degrees cooler. I had him move the bottles to the garage, where ambient temps are around 40-60 right now. I don't have an exact measurement for starting gravity as that's on his phone, and he's at physical therapy. For future reference, do you have a reliable attenuation chart you can link to me? This is a bit more complex than wine.

How soon after brewing did you bottle? It's possible you bottled too soon.

Other than gently stirring when you add your priming sugar, you don't want to stir more than that because you may ending up adding oxygen that you don't want at that point.

1.008-1.014 is a normal FG for beers with a moderate SG.

Two weeks, like the instructions said. I was wary, because in wine that's a lot of residual sugar. But apparently in beer, working as intended, lol

the stronger yeast flavor could be a handful of things. The most obvious is just like you said, too young in the bottle. Every yeast is a little different. I like to drink a couple “green” beers to figure out how long each yeast needs to bottle condition.

It could also be a bit of an under pitch of yeast, a more predominant tasting yeast, or a bit off balance with the hops

1.010-1.014 is plenty dry for an amber. 1.016-1.019 would be on the sweet side. I don’t measure ales anymore. I just leave them in the primary for 2-3 weeks. A month is too long for most of my beers, but I’ve kept high gravity beers several months. 78 warm for most ales, but shouldn’t be detrimental for most strains. If you followed the instructions, I’m sure it’s good on those fronts.

Unlike wine, for beer you never, ever, ever want to stir after fermentation has kicked off. It’s good before you pitch the yeast, but not after. Stirring or splashing around after will introduce oxygen and that will make your malts taste bland and flat and suck all the wonderfulness out of your hops

Okay so we're good to just let it sit a bit longer in primary. Good to know. And stirring is the biggest no-no ever (as everyone pointed out); also good to know.


Thanks everyone for your input. Going forward I'll try to cool that wort down, and now we have a target FG. As for that Amber Ale, sounds like it's just a green flavor right now. I'll give it another taste in a few weeks and see where it's at.

Cheers!

 

[Calder]

What off temps are made from too warm a ferment? I want to know if I can detect them in the Amber.

Off flavors vary depending on the yeast strain. Some love those hot temperatures, but most traditional ale yeasts do not. High temps create a lot of unwanted esters (bananas, cloves, apples, etc), and higher alcohols. Higher alcohols result in headaches. If a yeast max recommended temp is 70 F, you should avoid using it much above that as it can result in the higher alcohols being formed. If you find you get severe hang-over type headaches without drinking too much, it is due to the formation of these alcohols.

If you can't get temps lower, you will need to change to yeast that is happy at the higher temps. Belgian yeasts love the higher temps, some up to 95 F, but they do come with flavors, some are spicy, while some are fruity. Belgian yeasts are an interesting replacement for traditional yeasts, but just know they will not be 'clean' tasting. Stones Cali-Belgie Ale is their standard IPA brewed with a Belgian yeast. Some Brett yeasts can ferment relatively clean a these temps if used as the only yeast, but since you make wine, you probably don't want any risk of Brett cross-contaminating equipment.

You can check the details of any yeast on-line. Get the recommended ferment temp range, attenuation, and flavor profile. Some even have comments/reviews of the yeasts.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Conditioning means letting it sit in the bottle, right? 78-ish. Our house is always around 80, with the laundry room (our lab) being further away from the wood stove and thus a few degrees cooler. I had him move the bottles to the garage, where ambient temps are around 40-60 right now. I don't have an exact measurement for starting gravity as that's on his phone, and he's at physical therapy. For future reference, do you have a reliable attenuation chart you can link to me? This is a bit more complex than wine.

Conditioning refers to how the beer is carbonated. It can be conditioned in the bottle as you did. Beer can also be conditioned in a keg using sugar similar to bottle conditioning or through forced carbonation.

Bottle conditioning is usually done at 65-72 F and typically takes 2-3 weeks. If you put the beer in the garage right after bottling, the yeast may need additional time to consume the added sugar or may go dormant if the temps were too cold. After bottling, you should leave the beer at room temperature for at least two weeks before transferring them to a cold environment.

Attenuation will vary by yeast strain. All the yeast companies publish the expected attenuation ranges for their strains. Realized attenuation will be affected by the fermentability of the wort which depends on the beer recipe (grains and sugars) and mashing process (temp and time) as well as other factors such as fermentation temperature and schedule.

 

[Dancy]

A budget way to keep fermentation temps down is to put the fermenter in an insulated bag with bottles of ice. I got mine from MoreBeer and I’ve been real happy with it.

 

[Wolffie]

Hi everyone. I'm a winemaker, but I got my husband a beer kit for christmas. We've already tore into it and I'm wondering if my winemaking knowledge applies in some of these areas.

So first of all we brewed an Amber Ale Block Party Amber Ale Beer Recipe Kit and bottled.
Now we have a porter going Bourbon Barrel Porter Beer Recipe Kit

The questions:
To my nose, the Amber Ale has a strong yeasty flavor. There are a number of factors I'm considering for the cause of this. Did we bottle with the FG too high? He has it on his phone, but I think it was 1.01-ish. Have we just, in our anxiousness to try our first beer, opened too early at week 2 instead of 4? Should we have stirred a bit in primary to air off the yeast flavor? None of the instructions list a target FG for bottling day, but this winemaker shoots for dry at 1.000 or lower. Is that instinct correct?

How long is too long in primary? Our room is 78F but after day 3 the cap dies off and the yeast take their sweet time.

Thanks, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions, haha

The member are very informative, offer great advice. I made wine for 27 + yr and switched to brewing. Yes your wine making experience will help, but as these master minds have provided, beer is less forgivable to infection and oxidation due to a lower average alcohol content. sanitation is extremely important and not so forgiving as wine. I find brewing much more complex and am my self new to brewing. Made 3 different brews since September Cream Ale, Irish Red, and a
sweet Milk stout. Learned a lot from this group and continue to. After wine and bottling!! , Kegging is the best way to go. Welcome to as the say:
DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE. !

 

[Habs]

Some Brett yeasts can ferment relatively clean a these temps if used as the only yeast, but since you make wine, you probably don't want any risk of Brett cross-contaminating equipment.

You can check the details of any yeast on-line. Get the recommended ferment temp range, attenuation, and flavor profile. Some even have comments/reviews of the yeasts.

Man you're right about that Bretts, haha! I'll double check on the yeasts. So far it's a little overwhelming with the choices, especially since I tend to stick to my my one favorite type of yeast for all my red wines. So many choices in beer.

After bottling, you should leave the beer at room temperature for at least two weeks before transferring them to a cold environment.

Yes, we did that, but the test one we cracked open seemed a wee bit fizzy for only two weeks in the bottle. Time to slow those yeast down in the garage.

A budget way to keep fermentation temps down is to put the fermenter in an insulated bag with bottles of ice. I got mine from MoreBeer and I’ve been real happy with it.

View attachment 711433

Oh this is neat. Thank you for sharing, I'll pass it along to the mister.

I find brewing much more complex and am my self new to brewing.

So complex! My head spins every time we buy a kit. And to think, most of the decisions and work are already done for us in a kit. But I'm glad for the change of pace, complexity makes room for creativity.

Cheers, folks!

 

[ncbrewer]

That said, you should leave it at least a week to let yeast clean up some of their byproducts and to ensure it is fully done so as not to create bottle bombs. Many brewers take two gravity samples a few days apart when fermentation is finished to confirm that it in fact is.

Yes, we did that, but the test one we cracked open seemed a wee bit fizzy for only two weeks in the bottle. Time to slow those yeast down in the garage.

I would keep checking these to see if they are getting over-carbonated. If they become gushers, then they are close to being bombs. Store and handle with care if you get gushers. They can continue to ferment, although slower, even in the fridge. And for future brews, I recommend the two gravity sample method that Holden C. mentioned.