Newbie cleaning mistake...

[jordankempp]

So the other day I used my Grainfather to brew a SMaSH Pale Ale. After most transfers and brew days there always tends to be some wort that makes it way on to my basement floor. Having 2 curious dogs and also having read the horror stories of malignant hyperthermia in dogs who ingest hops I am very careful to clean my floors well after each brew day.

After about 6 hours of brewing and cleaning up I finish cleaning the floors and can't wait to head out for dinner. I look at the bucket with citrus degreaser in it and think "you should really either dump that out or label it so you don't think it's PBW" but then the hungry little devil on my other shoulder says "nah you've been doing this long enough and you'll remember that this bucket only keeps degreaser in it, you're hungry...go eat". Food it is.

Fast forward 1 week, it is time to transfer 2 beers from primary to secondary. I go through normal sanitation procedure and rack the first beer. After that I place the siphon into the bucket of "PBW" (aka citrus degreaser) and run a little bit through the siphon followed by a quick rinse through some star san before transferring the second beer into its secondary.

2 hopes of mine: one is that I only use a very diluted citrus mixture (maybe 1oz in 5 gallons) so it may not be enough to effect the beer. Two is that hopefully rinsing with the Star San took some of the degreaser with it? Moral of the story is label your buckets...also. Now that I think about it I should probably make a new batch of Star San too...

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

wow...

 

[Dcioni]

Yikes. You're not keeping the beer that touched the degreaser are you? Seems really risky

 

[passedpawn]

I put two drops of red food coloring into my starsan spray bottle. I have a bunch of identical spray bottles, and this keeps me from making a dumb mistake. I have a dedicated red food coloring vial sitting right next to the starsan concentrate container. (the little one there is in the kitchen for disinfecting cutting boards, meat grinder, etc).

 

[mongoose33]

I put two drops of red food coloring into my starsan spray bottle. I have a bunch of identical spray bottles, and this keeps me from making a dumb mistake. I have a dedicated red food coloring vial sitting right next to the starsan concentrate container. (the little one there is in the kitchen for disinfecting cutting boards, meat grinder, etc).


I don't do the food coloring but i use colored spray bottles to denote what's in them.

Green is always and only Star-San. Blue is water (used for cooling down potential boilovers).

I bought those little spray bottles at Wal-Mart in the sample size/travel size aisle.

 

[IslandLizard]

Since you rinsed the siphon with Starsan I'd say there's been very little carry over of the citrus degreaser to your beer. You be the judge.

Do you know what's in that citrus degreaser, aside from some citrus oils?

2 remarks:
1. Why do secondaries? For most beers they're absolutely not needed, and if you do, it can cause oxidation and infection.
2. Rinsing cleaners off in Starsan is a no-no. Aside from tainting your Starsan, if enough gets transferred they will raise the pH of the Starsan (which has very little buffering capacity) yielding it useless. Rinse with water first before using Starsan.

 

[jordankempp]

Since you rinsed the siphon with Starsan I'd say there's been very little carry over of the citrus degreaser to your beer. You be the judge.

Do you know what's in that citrus degreaser, aside from some citrus oils?

2 remarks:
1. Why do secondaries? For most beers they're absolutely not needed, and if you do, it can cause oxidation and infection.
2. Rinsing cleaners off in Starsan is a no-no. Aside from tainting your Starsan, if enough gets transferred they will raise the pH of the Starsan (which has very little buffering capacity) yielding it useless. Rinse with water first before using Starsan.

I am not sure exactly what is in the citrus degreased but the solution is a very dilute mix. I believe that it calls for 8oz/1gal and the mixture I use is ~ 2oz/5gal. So I'm thinking that there will be no issue with the beer, at this point it doesn't hurt to at least finish the process and see if it comes through okay.

The secondary was to add fruit that the recipe called for, I typically don't use a secondary unless adding something for reasons stated above. Also, thanks for the heads up with the starsan. How much starsan do you typically make in one batch? I have been making 1 5-gallon batch and topping of my spray bottle and using it to sanitize a few carboys and kegs. I've read in places that it can be reused as long as the surfaces it is in contact with a cleaned and rinsed with something like PBW beforehand.

 

[IslandLizard]

I am not sure exactly what is in the citrus degreased but the solution is a very dilute mix. I believe that it calls for 8oz/1gal and the mixture I use is ~ 2oz/5gal. So I'm thinking that there will be no issue with the beer, at this point it doesn't hurt to at least finish the process and see if it comes through okay.

The secondary was to add fruit that the recipe called for, I typically don't use a secondary unless adding something for reasons stated above. Also, thanks for the heads up with the starsan. How much starsan do you typically make in one batch? I have been making 1 5-gallon batch and topping of my spray bottle and using it to sanitize a few carboys and kegs. I've read in places that it can be reused as long as the surfaces it is in contact with a cleaned and rinsed with something like PBW beforehand.

Yeah, at that dilution followed by a rinse in Starsan, I'd say your beer is most likely safe to drink. But why even use a degreaser like that? I bet it isn't food safe, so it shouldn't touch things you eat or drink, in case it doesn't get removed adequately. Aren't there better alternatives?

I use homemade PBW or simply washing soda (aka "laundry booster"). Many use (generic) Oxiclean, but I feel the O2 component it releases is heavily overrated (hear the screaming TV ads) and what's left behind is... washing soda, the real cleaner!

Starsan is active as long as the pH stays under 3. Transferring larger amounts dirt or alkaline agents, like PBW, Oxiclean, washing soda, etc. into a bucket of Starsan will raise the pH quickly, yielding it ineffective. That's why anything you want to sanitize with Starsan should be a. clean, and b. rinsed off with clean water first.

You can test a Starsan working solution's pH with a (cheap) pH meter or a piece of multi-range pH paper. A little phosphoric acid or some extra Starsan concentrate can correct the pH.

I make 3 to 6 gallons of Starsan at a time, and it lasts for weeks. Even months, but I usually dump it before that, when it gets too gray and grimey. A fresh working solution usually turns cloudy after using that day, but from experience and user reports it doesn't seem to negatively impact its performance. I also fill a spray bottle with it, and have a small bucket of it with a few small washing cloths to mop things such as bucket sides, lids, rims, etc.

The cause of Starsan's cloudiness seems to remain an unsolved mystery...
A few days ago I made a fresh solution and left a couple gallons in a covered bucket. It's still clear as glass! The part I used turned cloudy by the end of the day. We have fairly consistent and soft water, 12ppm Calcium, 1.5ppm Mg, 34 ppm Bicarbonate.

Ah, good to hear you had a valid reason for using a secondary. I've mostly been adding fruit and other adjuncts to my primary, as long as it doesn't remain on the yeast cake for more than 4-6 weeks. Just flush the headspace with CO2 afterwards.