New to the forums and Brewing

[Durb4nPoison]

I wouldn't go by their hop schedule. Some like doing it that way, and it'd be nice if someone chimed in, but for a more pronounced flavor 20 mins is the best from what I understand, and 5 mins is the aroma addition. And the bittering is at 60 mins. Anything between 20 and 60 mins is a bit of both.

2 lbs 10 oz in the bag? That's probably 2.25 lbs of grains then.

I ordered my supplies and im probobly going to be brewing this week. Just to be completely sure im doin this right , Wort should have 2 1/2 lbs of grain. after making the wort, Heat it untill it boils, then keep boiling untill you hit "hot break", then start my timer and boil for 60 minutes. Start with all of the columbus hops in a mesh bag. then every 20 minutes after i add the columbus, split between the armarillo and cascade hops untill i use them all.

For every addition should I use a mesh bag? and once I add the mesh bag with hops do I leave it in for the full hour? thanks

also can i use 1 mesh bag for 2 different hops at once?

 

[ericinthewoods]

Sort of-

so that we're clear. Make the wort by heating the water with the grain (no hops) for 60 min at temp between 145-165. Higher temps will increase alcohol and decrease sweetness, lower increases mouthfeel and sweetness- for yours I would do 155-160. Then remove all of the grain from the wort. Then heat to boil with the suggested hop additions. As soon as the you get a roiling boil, start the timer, and pitch your 60 min hop addition.

 

[ericinthewoods]

I said a crucial part backwards: lower temps result in higher attenuation, while higher temps result in thicker mouthfeel. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Conan]

Add the grains to what you've been given (milled), and keep the Columbus as your first addition (bittering), and split the Amarillo (or other hop that's higher in AA's) in half and use for your flavoring and aroma additions, then use all of the Cascade hops for your dry hop addition (7-10 days).

Do you understand how the dry hop addition works, and when to do it?

To answer your last post, based on rodwha's guidance:
After you mash and sparge (make the wort) and heat to a boil, put the Columbus hops in a muslin bag and add to the boil. This is "60 minutes to go in boil".
In 15-30 minutes add half of the Amarillo. This is "45-30minutes to go in boil". At 15 minutes to go in boil (after 45 total boiling minutes) add the other half of the Amarillo. This is also a good time to sanitize yoru fermenter, transfer hoses, and anything that will contact the wort after the boil.
When your hour boil is done and the wort is chilled to <80F transfer it to your fermenter, aerate, add yeast, and wait a few weeks. Once fermentation is complete (checked with your hydrometer) add the Cascade hops in a muslin bag to the fermenter. This is the dry hopping stage. Let it set another week or so, then bottle.

I don't want to confuse you, but I disagree with ericinthewoods' recommendation of 155-160F for a mash temp. This temperature will give a mouthfeel of a stout- thick, chewy, and sweet, which is great for oatmeal stouts and some porters. Typically, 148-151 is a dry, crisp mouthfeel. Very pleasant on some styles, but not on a IIPA. I'd go for 152-153F, which is not bone-dry or super thick. There's already a lot going on for the palate with a beer like this, and a neutral mouthfeel will allow the flavor profile to shine through. At the end of the day a first beer doesn't need to be perfect. Don't sweat being off of temp a little bit- anywhere from 149-160 will make fermentable sugar. Good luck! Kyle

 

[ericinthewoods]

Yeah, sorry about that. I agree with Conan. I said my mash temps backwards. I do it pretty much every time. I have to thoroughly check my notes before brewing so I don't make mistakes like that. I was posting from work and didnt double check myself.

Higher temps for darker beers, lower for lighter. His mash temp is the better one.

 

[rodwha]

eric: Do you mash high with all dark beers? Do you mash at a more typical temp for a period and the mash out high? If so why?

 

[ericinthewoods]

eric: Do you mash high with all dark beers? Do you mash at a more typical temp for a period and the mash out high? If so why?

Going over this conversation is starting to get confusing. Mash temps always get me because I have just started paying attention to the amylase's. We seem to have a good number of experienced people in this thread that weren't here when I initially responded. I'll go over my notes and y'all see if what I'm saying makes sense. My numbers are straight, but given what other people in HBT and the Internet in general are saying, I might be applying it incorrectly. The way I understand it:

Alpha amylase works at 148-165 and will convert starches better. It is capable of breaking down amylose chains and amylopectin very efficiently from the ends or the middle of the chains to produce a lot of fermentable sugars for the yeast to eat. This results in less thick beers, that have less residual sweetness and more alcohol.

Beta amylase works best at lower temps: 130-155, and will denature above 160. Beta will break down amylose chains starting only at the tips, meaning that it takes longer, and will not breakdown amylopectin very well, creating sugars that the yeast cannot digest. This results in thicker mouthfeel, less alcohol, and residual sweetness.

Letting both work in tandem (150-155) is what most people advocate. I prefer to isolate one or the other.

I do heavy stouts at high temps 155-165 because I'm not concerned about residual sugars increasing the mouthfeel because of the massive malt bill.

My DIPA and Belgian light beers are done at lower temps (138-143) to allow the leftover sweetness accentuate the hops and fruity esters; the malt bill being so light, I'm not concerned about too much mouthfeel.

I haven't done step mashes because I haven't had a good system to easily change temperatures in my beer. I now have a RIMS system that will let me change temps easily, but noting my confusion over mash temps and their effect on the outcome, I need to bone up before I start playing with it. I always mash out at 172. It's high enough to cease amylase activity (though I'm not sure why this is necessary if we're about to boil it), but not high enough to significantly increase tannin removal from the grain. Over 180, I understand, is too high.

I've reversed positions a couple times, but this is exactly what my brewing notes are. I could use some feedback in what I've messed up and hopefully, my confusion will help the OP and some other newbie brewers learn something too.

I welcome corrections to my numbers, assumptions, or brewing processes, though. I'm not confident enough to back these up with any more data than I have put above. I'm not trained in brewing and learned everything through Wikipedia. So far this has worked for me, but I'm always looking to learn from more experienced brewers particularly about mash temps.

 

[rodwha]

I've only recently moved into partial mashes, and don't truly understand all of the reasonings. I just try to keep my mashes between 150-160*.

I allowed my mash to eventually hit nearly 180* on a hazelnut brown, and it's fairly sweet. It's not undrinkable, but I don't care much for it now.

 

[ericinthewoods]

I allowed my mash to eventually hit nearly 180*

Then I would say that what you experienced was your amylase's denaturing. You wouldn't have converted starches to simple sugars at that temp, so the yeast couldn't convert them to alcohol, leaving a lot of sweet-tasting complex sugars. It depends on how large the batch is and how long it was above 170. It doesn't happen instantaneously, but if you do let a significant portion of your mash stay above 170 for >10 min then it will take much much longer for the saccharification to occur in your mash. My best guess to fix this problem would be cool back down to target temp with distilled water, and then increase mash rest by 30 mins.

The same thing happened to me on my first all grain brew. I eventually pitched champagne yeast into the fermenter in order to break down the more complex sugars. This dried out the beer, but there were so many off flavors that it was still undrinkable. I saved them. I drink one every month to remind myself how important mash temps are.

 

[rodwha]

This was my first large BIAB and for maybe 30 mins I couldn't get my temp much over 150*. I turned up the heat 1/2 a notch and watched, watched, watched. I was watching an MMA fight online and allowed it to sit without supervision (I usually checked within 5 mins) for maybe 15-20 mins and found after maybe 45 mins or so that it had reached 178-180*! I brought the temp back down quickly, but it appears as though it did as you mentioned where it will no longer convert starches. Lesson learned!!!

 

[ericinthewoods]

haha. Mine was a transcription error. I was using someone else's recipe, where their mash temp was 160. I wrote it down wrong and I held it at 180 the entire mash, the only reason I got any sugar to convert at all was my anemic burner and a doing a dough in to 70 degree water.

 

[Conan]

I don't know much about the amylase/ beta relationships with regard to temperature, and haven't given it much thought. Sticking to the outline I posted above has worked for me, although I've also recently seen folks on this board debating whether or not temperature actually has the drastic effect we're perceiving. I'm still a believer, however.

I BIAB'b about 2 times and both times had problems with mash temps. A cooler solved that problem- and I've heard you can BIAB in a cooler, too.

I haven't done step mashes or mash-outs, and only monitor temps right after dough-in. Using BeerSmith my temps are almost always spot-on, and a proper initial strike temp is really the key to hitting and maintaining mash temps.

This process does take two or three attempts to learn your equipment and how to predict what it'll do. Kyle

 

[ericinthewoods]

I found some good info about mash temperatures that maybe will help y'all out. The numbers that I reported are correct, but my earlier assumptions about the products that the enzymes produce are wrong. Beta amylase does work slower than alpha amylase, and cannot convert amylopectins as efficiently as alpha. Alpha works fast and converts both amyloses and amylopectins very well. The information that I was missing, and is very crucial are what the results of the alpha and beta reactions are.

Alpha produces a high ratio of dextrins from the mash, which are non-fermentable, and yield sweeter, heavier beers. This is why the higher mash temps are suggested for darker beers.

Beta produces maltose, which the yeast ferment easily and quickly. Even though it takes longer to convert, and are less efficient, the product of the reaction is more fermentable sugars. This is why people suggest light beers be mashed at low temps.

I've been doing it wrong, but hopefully, you'll be able to use this info.

very interesting reading below

Sources:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html

http://byo.com/mashing/item/1604-what-mash-temperatures-create-a-sweet-or-dry-beer

 

[rodwha]

Awesome! Thanks!!!