New to closed transfers

[Scott Shenanigan]

So I completed my first closed transfer last Sunday from my primary fermenter to my keg leaving the trub behind. Fermentation was complete after two weeks and I hit my FG of 1.006 for three days straight. It is a Bell’s 2 Hearted Clone Extract.

Before doing the closed transfer to my keg, I put my dry hops in a hopper filter and hung it from the inside of the keg lid. I then purged all of the oxygen out with CO2. My beer has now been dry hopping in my keg for almost 5 days.

Here’s where I need your help/advice:

1) Should I cold crash my keg with the dry hops in it and then do a closed transfer to a new keg that is purged with CO2 before force carbing?

2) Should I transfer to a new keg that is purged with CO2 and then cold crash the new keg before force carbing?

3) Just cold crash the keg with dry hops and then force carb leaving the hops in for the entirety of beer’s “life”?

I want to know which way would be best. Thank you.

 

[Iseneye]

I leave the hops in the keg for the life of it.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Hmm is there a specific reason you chose to add the dryhops in the keg rather than the fermentor? Imho the best practice is adding the dryhops loose near the end of fermentation into you fermentor. Then cold crashing the fermentor to drop everything then racking to a starsan purged o2 free keg. I would imagine alot of grassyness if you leave the dryhops for any extended period. Cheers

 

[Scott Shenanigan]

Hmm is there a specific reason you chose to add the dryhops in the keg rather than the fermentor? Imho the best practice is adding the dryhops loose near the end of fermentation into you fermentor. Then cold crashing the fermentor to drop everything then racking to a starsan purged o2 free keg. I would imagine alot of grassyness if you leave the dryhops for any extended period. Cheers

I added the dry hops to my keg because I was trying to prevent any O2 from touching my beer. Once the hops were in my keg, I purged the keg with CO2 and then performed a closed transfer from my fermenter to the dry hopped keg. If I just added the hops to my fermenter then I would have to expose my beer to O2 once I opened the lid to add the dry hops.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I added the dry hops to my keg because I was trying to prevent any O2 from touching my beer. Once the hops were in my keg, I purged the keg with CO2 and then performed a closed transfer from my fermenter to the dry hopped keg. If I just added the hops to my fermenter then I would have to expose my beer to O2 once I opened the lid to add the dry hops.

The problem is that you can't purge your keg once you have hops in there. How are you purging? The consensus seems to be that the only reliable method is to fill the keg completely with liquid (sanitiser) then push it out with CO2. You can't do that if there's a bag of hops in the keg. Adding hops to nearly fermented beer means that the yeast are still active enough to purge any oxygen that gets in. I'm with blazinlow86 in adding hops to fermenter then transferring to serving keg, but I don't recommend cold crashing in the fermenter unless you have a reliable way to avoid sucking air in during the crash. I'd prefer to simply accept that there will be a bit more sediment in the keg (it only affects the first few pints).

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The other neat way is to dry purge your keg as best you can with hops in the keg, and transfer beer to the keg with a few (say, four to ten) points of gravity remaining and attach a spunding valve to the keg. Leave the hops in the keg as Iseneye does. This gives the benefit of scavenging oxygen out of the keg, naturally carbonating within a normal ferment timeframe and locking in all of the nice dry-hop aromas. The downside is even more sediment - you can work around that with a floating dip tube or by cutting off a short section of the liquid dip tube.

 

[Scott Shenanigan]

The problem is that you can't purge your keg once you have hops in there. How are you purging? The consensus seems to be that the only reliable method is to fill the keg completely with liquid (sanitiser) then push it out with CO2. You can't do that if there's a bag of hops in the keg. Adding hops to nearly fermented beer means that the yeast are still active enough to purge any oxygen that gets in. I'm with blazinlow86 in adding hops to fermenter then transferring to serving keg, but I don't recommend cold crashing in the fermenter unless you have a reliable way to avoid sucking air in during the crash. I'd prefer to simply accept that there will be a bit more sediment in the keg (it only affects the first few pints).

I’m learning something new all the time. I was under the assumption that if I fill the keg that has dry hops in it with CO2 and then pull the pressure release valve numerous times to purge the oxygen out, all of the oxygen would be removed from the keg. Thus leaving a CO2 only environment with hops in the keg.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

That's how I originally did it as well, and it does a reasonable job. Unfortunately it will always leave some O2 behind.

 

[Blazinlow86]

The problem is that you can't purge your keg once you have hops in there. How are you purging? The consensus seems to be that the only reliable method is to fill the keg completely with liquid (sanitiser) then push it out with CO2. You can't do that if there's a bag of hops in the keg. Adding hops to nearly fermented beer means that the yeast are still active enough to purge any oxygen that gets in. I'm with blazinlow86 in adding hops to fermenter then transferring to serving keg, but I don't recommend cold crashing in the fermenter unless you have a reliable way to avoid sucking air in during the crash. I'd prefer to simply accept that there will be a bit more sediment in the keg (it only affects the first few pints).

Good point I didn't mention. you definitely need a way to avoid suck back during cold crashing. When I first started I used a solid stopper on my glass carboys. Then went to fermonsters with solid lids with ball lock connectors with a small amount of c02 pressure and now the spike unitank. Cheers

 

[Scott Shenanigan]

Good point I didn't mention. you definitely need a way to avoid suck back during cold crashing. When I first started I used a solid stopper on my glass carboys. Then went to fermonsters with solid lids with ball lock connectors with a small amount of c02 pressure and now the spike unitank. Cheers

Thank you for all of your help!

So at this point, which of the three options that I listed in my original post would you think is best?

 

[McKnuckle]

You could also vent CO2 from your primary fermentation into the keg's gas in post (via QD), attach an airlock to the liquid post, and when it stops bubbling, you'll have a keg full of CO2 and purged of oxygen. Then remove the airlock, and proceed to fill the keg with beer.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Just leave the hops in there for this one.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Personally I would transfer to another keg after a few days. If you drink it fast leaving them might be ok too but I don't have any personal experience with that. Cheers

 

[IslandLizard]

I put my dry hops in a hopper filter

That could be another issue, depending on how much hops you put in there.

Hops swell enormously when they get wet, and compaction will prevent beer from penetrating the filter and interacting with the hops to extract the flavor and aroma compounds. Periodic agitation will help, as long as beer can move freely through, in out of that filter. If the hops mass has compacted, that flow and thus extraction is not going to happen.

It's much better and easier to add hops loose to your (primary) fermenter (secondaries are out). I'm convinced periodic agitation helps with the extraction process. Therefore giving them a gentle stir 1x or 2x a day will get you better extraction, than just let them sit and soak. It will all sink after a few days, helped by cold crashing, so you can rack/transfer clear beer off the top.

While working with beer you need to prevent or at least limit air (O2) ingress and exposure, especially with hoppy beers. Working under CO2 and/or flushing the headspace afterward is good practice.

Here's a thread on how to do closed and near-closed transfers when using brew buckets, but can be applied or adapted to various other systems. Preventing or at least limiting air/O2 exposure is key:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ar-closed-transfer-from-bucket-to-keg.664638/

 

[IslandLizard]

So at this point, which of the three options that I listed in my original post would you think is best?

3) Leave 'em in the keg.
Swirl, gently invert back and forth or roll that keg periodically to get the goodness out of those dry hops and into your beer. It needs to extract and disperse.

But first, I would purge that headspace a few more times (25-30 psi), to remove more residual O2.

 

[eric19312]

The kit Bell's sells for this recipe has 3.5 oz dry hop. Is that all in your keg? That is a lot of dry hop in a keg and I'd probably be thinking about a transfer. It would be easy enough to do a proper full purge of a clean keg (fill keg with star san and push it all out through the liquid line by attaching gas to the gas post) and then transfer this beer into that keg by connecting the liquid out posts and pushing the beer with gas.

I've left 1oz of hops in kegs for the duration and they are fine but this seems extreme. I'm also curious about the hop filter you used. 3.5 oz will swell quite a bit and might not even be fully wet if packed to tight.

 

[Scott Shenanigan]

The kit Bell's sells for this recipe has 3.5 oz dry hop. Is that all in your keg? That is a lot of dry hop in a keg and I'd probably be thinking about a transfer. It would be easy enough to do a proper full purge of a clean keg (fill keg with star san and push it all out through the liquid line by attaching gas to the gas post) and then transfer this beer into that keg by connecting the liquid out posts and pushing the beer with gas.

I've left 1oz of hops in kegs for the duration and they are fine but this seems extreme. I'm also curious about the hop filter you used. 3.5 oz will swell quite a bit and might not even be fully wet if packed to tight.

I purchased the extract kit from Adventures in Homebrewing. Per that recipe there was only 1oz of centennial hops for dry hopping. The hop filter is a 300 micron stainless steel cylinder about 8 inches long with a screw lid and chain.

 

[Jag75]

The kit Bell's sells for this recipe has 3.5 oz dry hop. Is that all in your keg? That is a lot of dry hop in a keg and I'd probably be thinking about a transfer. It would be easy enough to do a proper full purge of a clean keg (fill keg with star san and push it all out through the liquid line by attaching gas to the gas post) and then transfer this beer into that keg by connecting the liquid out posts and pushing the beer with gas.

I've left 1oz of hops in kegs for the duration and they are fine but this seems extreme. I'm also curious about the hop filter you used. 3.5 oz will swell quite a bit and might not even be fully wet if packed to tight.

Depending on the size of the filter it may be ok to leave in the keg this time. If theres not a lot of room in the filter he wont get as much out of the dry hops as he would if they were tossed in commando.

Ah just seen the size of filter and amount of hops. It's fine

 

[deadwolfbones]

You could also vent CO2 from your primary fermentation into the keg's gas in post (via QD), attach an airlock to the liquid post, and when it stops bubbling, you'll have a keg full of CO2 and purged of oxygen. Then remove the airlock, and proceed to fill the keg with beer.

Now this sounds smart.

 

[snarf7]

Is brief O2 contact really that big a deal? I dry hop about 75% thru fermentation, so maybe a little O2 gets in the fermenter but the CO2 soon purges that I assume? The only other point is during transfer to a keg, I use a transfer pump, seal the keg immediately, hook the gas up, crank it up and pull the check valve repeatedly for a couple mins to purge any remaining O2. I've never noticed ANY off flavors. Is it just me or do people make way too big a deal of this?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Is brief O2 contact really that big a deal? I dry hop about 75% thru fermentation, so maybe a little O2 gets in the fermenter but the CO2 soon purges that I assume? The only other point is during transfer to a keg, I use a transfer pump, seal the keg immediately, hook the gas up, crank it up and pull the check valve repeatedly for a couple mins to purge any remaining O2. I've never noticed ANY off flavors. Is it just me or do people make way too big a deal of this?

I also add my dryhops during fermentation as you have mentioned and don't believe that 5 seconds the fermentor is open makes a major difference. I do flood with c02 while the top ports open just as added protection however. Filling a non purged/open keg is a much larger concern for myself and I would never do it that way. I'm not sure you would notice a flavor issue but you should notice a considerable loss in shelf life. If your only brewing a 5 gallon batch and drinking it in 2 weeks you may never notice it however. Cheers

 

[snarf7]

I also add my dryhops during fermentation as you have mentioned and don't believe that 5 seconds the fermentor is open makes a major difference. I do flood with c02 while the top ports open just as added protection however. Filling a non purged/open keg is a much larger concern for myself and I would never do it that way. I'm not sure you would notice a flavor issue but you should notice a considerable loss in shelf life. If your only brewing a 5 gallon batch and drinking it in 2 weeks you may never notice it however. Cheers

How do you do your transfers then?

 

[kingmatt]

For my hoppy beers I dry hop in the fermenter, cold crash then close transfer to a keg with more dry hops (usually cryo hops) bagged and hanging with dental floss.

I rigged up a Mylar balloon tapped to an airlock that I fill with CO2 and put that on before I cold crash for suckback.

I fill my keg with sanitizer, push it out the outpost with CO2 then carefully open the lid enough to slide my hop bag in, close it up and purge with CO2 a few times for good measure.

I leave the hops in the keg the whole time and have never had any grassiness or oxidation issues.

 

[Blazinlow86]

How do you do your transfers then?

I transfer my carbonated beer from the fermentor using 12psi into a starsan purged kegs that are also pressurized and use a spunding valve to prevent foaming. Cheers