New to Cider

[Dlynn]

So we are starting to deal with the State, County and Federal folks to begin a small hard cider operation in Oregon on residential property that doesn't have a city sewer system. Who would have thought that there was so little knowledge within or government agencies about cider vs beer and wine. Has anyone figured out exactly what is left over (chemically) after the fermenting process is complete and the tank is flushed into a bucket? The Oregon DEQ is looking for information like (mg/l) for BOD-5, COD, Phosphorus, Nitrogen, Chloride, Sodium, TDS and PH. We have the data for Beer and Wine however when it comes to Hard Cider we have gotten a lot of wild guess's.
Thank you in advance for any information you might have.

 

[Randzor]

Id assume its closer to wine as there are not alot of additives like beer, but that's a guess.

 

[RPCidery]

Mostly yeast carcasses. Nothing that you couldn't dump right in your garden. I dump *edit*most*edit* of my wine/beer/cider leftovers around the bases of my fruit trees. I have a bumper crop going this year.

 

[Dlynn]

Thanks for the input. This is the same thing I have talked to them about however they treat all wastewater as effluent. They will not allow any liquid from the process to go into the septic system or onto the ground without composting. They claim yeast will destroy the septic drain field. If it has not gone through a human body via the mouth it is nothing butt trouble to a septic system. However the State is looking for chemical numbers.
Common sense has no place in the government that regulates wastewater in Oregon.
Thanks again

 

[RPCidery]

When I'm feeling lazy, or in the middle of a rainy winter day, I have been known to dump the yeast leftovers down the sink. Last time I inspected my septic sytem, it looked great. Well, about as good as one looks when it hasn't been pumped in nine years.:cross:

It's probably best if I don't get started on what I think of government employees.

 

[Randzor]

Id simply say cider is like an apple wine... how do you regulate that and then go from there then.

 

[RPCidery]

Do they just want a chem analysis of the leftover trub? It might be worthwhile to take a sample to an analytical lab. There are bazillions of wineries in the Willamette valley, and microbreweries in the Portland area. One would think someone would have a clue. But then again, we are talking about government employees.

 

[UCChemE05]

You need to pay to have it tested. There should be a couple places in nearly larger cities who can do the testing. Wastewater testing would be the first place is start.

 

[Dlynn]

Update to the lab work issue. So I get the price to do the lab work so we can tell them what is in the cider to. It come in around 300.00 bucks. So by afternoon the DEQ decides it is a lot of money and time to bother with this analysis. They decided that we can simply deposit our wastewater onto sawdust and let it evaporate and than compost any residual solids. We are on a roll now.
Now we have to sell this program to the Oregon Dept. of Agricultural. They are the one who want the washable walls, floors, ceiling and a three compartment sink in the fermenting area. If they will sign off on us not having running contaminated tape water in or space we might just have it made. If not we are back to square one with another agency. One step closer.
Only in America. I am sure there will more to come.
Thanks again for all the helpful comments.

 

[podz]

I remember reading someone else wrote about this exact same problem and came up with an ok result. I found it somewhere by googling, so can you. I don't believe it was on this forum, but I did read it somewhere. If I'm not mistaken, they were also in Oregon.