citytransplant
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Welcome to the club.
Sounds like you did pretty well, for a first timer. I too relied heavily on advice given in this forum for my first attempt at making hard cider just last fall and the results ... total success.
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Sounds like you did pretty well, for a first timer. I too relied heavily on advice given in this forum for my first attempt at making hard cider just last fall and the results ... total success.
Welcome to the club.
Sounds like you did pretty well, for a first timer. I too relied heavily on advice given in this forum for my first attempt at making hard cider just last fall and the results ... total success.
Thanks! I wouldn't call it very well but it certainly is drinkable. There is a lot of yeast in the bottoms of the bottles. They will certainly need a good washing after drinking.
I watched a lot of Youtube videos, read this forum and a book. I certainly made a few missteps along the way but hopefully those iron out in the next batch.
The yeast order arrived today and the juice is on the way. Next batch of cider coming up!
I have a lot of beer to drink now to create more empties! Anyone care to join me for a cold one?
I have a lot of beer to drink now to create more empties! Anyone care to join me for a cold one?
My juice order arrived today! Yippee! I have 46 liters of English apple juice to turn into hard cider. The first batch is clearing up very nicely but still a bit too dry for my taste.
The plan is to use White Labs English Cider and White Labs Sweet Mead yeast.
The plan is to use White Labs English Cider and White Labs Sweet Mead yeast.
CMcPherson
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Please keep us posted on how it goes!
It's been too long for me to remember if keeging has been discussed with you but I highly recommend looking into a simple Corny keg setup.
That way you don't have to deal with the guessing game of bottle conditioning or yeast at the bottom of bottles.
A used keg with a picnic tap and a small bottle of gas is inexpensive.
I just went through learning what to look for in a used setup and would be happy to advice if your interested.
Hearing that CO2 "pop" when you open a bottle sure is nice but pouring a perfectly carbonated freshie on demand is almost cathartic.
I seem to be having success with halting fermentation by racking often.
One has stalled and cleared at 1.030 and another is looking like it's about to give up the ghost at about 1.020.
It's been too long for me to remember if keeging has been discussed with you but I highly recommend looking into a simple Corny keg setup.
That way you don't have to deal with the guessing game of bottle conditioning or yeast at the bottom of bottles.
A used keg with a picnic tap and a small bottle of gas is inexpensive.
I just went through learning what to look for in a used setup and would be happy to advice if your interested.
Hearing that CO2 "pop" when you open a bottle sure is nice but pouring a perfectly carbonated freshie on demand is almost cathartic.
I seem to be having success with halting fermentation by racking often.
One has stalled and cleared at 1.030 and another is looking like it's about to give up the ghost at about 1.020.
We have not discussed a keg set up but I have been thinking about it. Several videos I watched talk about it and the benefits of using it.
Right now, space is a bit of a challenge and I am not sure where I would put it. I am using the cellar space right now to store my equipment that is not in use and and fermenting in an out of the way part of our bedroom to avoid my curious 2-year old.
I am looking into a base heater to help manage the temperatures in the cellar during primary fermenting. If I can work that out I may be able to manage the space for a keg. I am buying everything by mail order from the UK, as it is cheaper than in Switzerland and they seem to have some good options. I am going to have to read up more on a set up for a keg too. I will have to send you a PM when I have some good questions.
I will be sure to keep you posted on how everything goes. I just saw today that our local Migros has apple juice on sale for 10l for 6.00. I may have to get some to see how it works!
On another note, I have a big shipment of cider coming in from the UK that is due to arrive tomorrow so I am going to use that for...shall we say, research purposes!
Right now, space is a bit of a challenge and I am not sure where I would put it. I am using the cellar space right now to store my equipment that is not in use and and fermenting in an out of the way part of our bedroom to avoid my curious 2-year old.
I am looking into a base heater to help manage the temperatures in the cellar during primary fermenting. If I can work that out I may be able to manage the space for a keg. I am buying everything by mail order from the UK, as it is cheaper than in Switzerland and they seem to have some good options. I am going to have to read up more on a set up for a keg too. I will have to send you a PM when I have some good questions.
I will be sure to keep you posted on how everything goes. I just saw today that our local Migros has apple juice on sale for 10l for 6.00. I may have to get some to see how it works!
On another note, I have a big shipment of cider coming in from the UK that is due to arrive tomorrow so I am going to use that for...shall we say, research purposes!
I picked up the cider and here is what I have:
Henny's Dry cider
Aspall Cider Collection Pack:
Gwynt y d'Draig
I am going to take some gravity readings too and try to find out where these end up for comparison (and have some fun in the meantime!)
Henny's Dry cider
Aspall Cider Collection Pack:
- Crisp Draught Suffolk Cyder
- Dry Premier Cru Suffolk Cyder
- Perronelle's Blush Cyder
- Organic Suffolk Cyder
- Clement's Four Cyder
- Vintage Imperial Cyder No. 285
- Harry Sparrow Cyder
Gwynt y d'Draig
I am going to take some gravity readings too and try to find out where these end up for comparison (and have some fun in the meantime!)
Morrey
Well-Known Member
I took Maylar's suggestion and ordered some Xylitol to adjust sweetness in my hard cider before racking into kegs for conditioning and carbing. We know the reason to use Xylitol is to add non-fermentable sweetness in the cider to prevent further fermentation which will use the "sweetness" we are looking for. It worked well of course.
I am so impressed with the natural taste of this sugar that the wife and I are using it in our coffee in the mornings. Can't go wrong with this one....THANKS Maylar!!
I am so impressed with the natural taste of this sugar that the wife and I are using it in our coffee in the mornings. Can't go wrong with this one....THANKS Maylar!!
I have been taking some gravity readings and tasting notes of the cider I recently picked up. It has been good to compare the batch I made to these to try and figure out where to go next.
Most of the ciders are around 1.012-1.016 final gravity. My cider ended up about 1.008 and has a more sour taste that the commercially produced bottles. My favorites are the Henney's dry cider and the Aspall Harry Sparrow and Imperial Vintage. All the gravity readings are a bit higher than I would have expected, given the taste but enjoyable nonetheless.
I am going to aim for a higher final gravity next time and hopefully smooth out some of the tart flavors I am getting now.
Most of the ciders are around 1.012-1.016 final gravity. My cider ended up about 1.008 and has a more sour taste that the commercially produced bottles. My favorites are the Henney's dry cider and the Aspall Harry Sparrow and Imperial Vintage. All the gravity readings are a bit higher than I would have expected, given the taste but enjoyable nonetheless.
I am going to aim for a higher final gravity next time and hopefully smooth out some of the tart flavors I am getting now.
After life stuff happened and I was able to get my second attempt started I finally managed to get another batch of cider in primary again.
(Sterilizing the equipment)
For this round I used 43l of apple juice intended for fermenting. This was picked up in the UK and
I used White Labs English Cider, White Labs Sweet Mead yeast, and Wyeast 4766 Cider Yeast.
Nothing has happened in the airlocks so far to indicate fermenting has begun but there is a nice apple smell in the room. The ambient temperature seems to be holding steady at 19c so I think that is good.
I ended up using powdered tannin for one batch, Brewed Yorkshire breakfast tea for another to add tannin and the third one with no additives. The yeast packages indicate that fermenting should begin within 5-15 hours but I not sure at this point. The starting gravity is 1.045 for the juice. I am going for a low alcohol, classic English cider profile. Low ABV, around 4.5% and semi-dry.
(Sterilizing the equipment)
For this round I used 43l of apple juice intended for fermenting. This was picked up in the UK and
I used White Labs English Cider, White Labs Sweet Mead yeast, and Wyeast 4766 Cider Yeast.
Nothing has happened in the airlocks so far to indicate fermenting has begun but there is a nice apple smell in the room. The ambient temperature seems to be holding steady at 19c so I think that is good.
I ended up using powdered tannin for one batch, Brewed Yorkshire breakfast tea for another to add tannin and the third one with no additives. The yeast packages indicate that fermenting should begin within 5-15 hours but I not sure at this point. The starting gravity is 1.045 for the juice. I am going for a low alcohol, classic English cider profile. Low ABV, around 4.5% and semi-dry.
The two cider specific yeasts have taken off and are bubbling away. This time the ambient temperature is about 2 degrees lower and the yeast is behaving differently int he amount of bubbles coming through the air lock.
The Mead yeast has not began bubbling so I am going to take a gravity reading and see what's up. Hopefully it is fermenting but if not I am thinking about either adding some yeast nutrient or pitching a different pack of yeast.
Any thoughts on this?
The Mead yeast has not began bubbling so I am going to take a gravity reading and see what's up. Hopefully it is fermenting but if not I am thinking about either adding some yeast nutrient or pitching a different pack of yeast.
Any thoughts on this?
Everything is bubbling away now, but very slowly. I think this is pretty good for a longer, slower ferment than I had at my first go. I also managed to read some great information here:
http://www.cider.org.uk/
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com/index.htm
Maybe many of you are aware of these links but I thought I would post them anyway, as they are very informative for anyone new that may not be aware.
http://www.cider.org.uk/
http://www.lostmeadowvt.com/index.htm
Maybe many of you are aware of these links but I thought I would post them anyway, as they are very informative for anyone new that may not be aware.
I took a gravity reading today and was somewhat surprised by the results.
The starting Gravity for the juice was 1.045. After 8 days of fermenting at 19c ambient room temperature:
White Labs English Cider yeast: 1.010
Wyeast Cider 1.006
White Labs Sweet Mead/Blush: 1.004
I was initially concerned about the Mead Yeast, as the airlock showed very little activity but upon taking a gravity reading it had fermented out the most sugar. It was also the most watery tasting of the bunch but still retained some of the sweetness of the apple.
The Wyeast had the most fruit taste of the bunch with a nice bite at the end. I can definitely see the potential in this yeast and will probably use it again at some point.
The White Labs English Cider yeast was the best tasting of the bunch for me. I liked the residual sweetness of the cider and it had a nice tannin bite and tartness. For me this was the best of the bunch. Interestingly, the airlock on this showed the most activity but fermented out the least amount of sugar of the three.
The plan is to take another reading on Tuesday and more than likely rack to secondary. What fun!
The starting Gravity for the juice was 1.045. After 8 days of fermenting at 19c ambient room temperature:
White Labs English Cider yeast: 1.010
Wyeast Cider 1.006
White Labs Sweet Mead/Blush: 1.004
I was initially concerned about the Mead Yeast, as the airlock showed very little activity but upon taking a gravity reading it had fermented out the most sugar. It was also the most watery tasting of the bunch but still retained some of the sweetness of the apple.
The Wyeast had the most fruit taste of the bunch with a nice bite at the end. I can definitely see the potential in this yeast and will probably use it again at some point.
The White Labs English Cider yeast was the best tasting of the bunch for me. I liked the residual sweetness of the cider and it had a nice tannin bite and tartness. For me this was the best of the bunch. Interestingly, the airlock on this showed the most activity but fermented out the least amount of sugar of the three.
The plan is to take another reading on Tuesday and more than likely rack to secondary. What fun!
CMcPherson
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Keep the updates coming!
I have an English Cider yeast on the stir plate now.
I would like to try the Wyeast Cider and White Labs Sweet Mead soon.
I have an English Cider yeast on the stir plate now.
I would like to try the Wyeast Cider and White Labs Sweet Mead soon.
Thanks for the reply. I was sort of wondering if anyone was reading this or if it was simply a journal. 
I am going to try the Wyeast and White Labs Cider again at some point. I am not sure about the mead yeast but I guess that will depend on the long term to see ow it shapes up.
I am going to try the Wyeast and White Labs Cider again at some point. I am not sure about the mead yeast but I guess that will depend on the long term to see ow it shapes up.
CMcPherson
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It is a journal that I expect plenty of us beginners are enjoying.
Just started 5 gal. with my last packet of Brewers Best Cider House Select Cider yeast, purchased last year. I used 3 gal. of Musselmans and 9 quarts of apple juice from concentrate. 24 hrs yeast in the Musselmans shaken every 4-6 hrs. Then added to the 5 gal. and 24 hrs. later bubbling away in the sub 60 deg. cellar.
Great! I was hoping someone would get something out of this. Lord knows I have asked my fair share of questions. It is always fun to contribute to the discussion although in my very small way.
At some point I may have to start a new thread: Been Brewing Cider for too Long!
I bought a second 12l Speidel fermenting barrel for racking to secondary and that arrived today.
I am going to rack to secondary this weekend and let it sit at about 16°C in the cellar. I read another thread about someone who added oak chips and am seriously considering trying that with one of the 12l batches to see how that comes out. I am close to France so I am going to look into getting some oak chips for this experiment.
The fermenting went more quickly than I had hoped but again more learning along the way.
My first batch of cider is developing. I just cracked a couple more bottles tonight and it is roughly at the four week mark for bottle conditioning. The tart flavors have smoothed out and it drinks better. The carbonation is at a nice level for me, like a nice Russian Imperial Stout, and the tannins are beginning to come through in a better way.
I am going to rack to secondary this weekend and let it sit at about 16°C in the cellar. I read another thread about someone who added oak chips and am seriously considering trying that with one of the 12l batches to see how that comes out. I am close to France so I am going to look into getting some oak chips for this experiment.
The fermenting went more quickly than I had hoped but again more learning along the way.
My first batch of cider is developing. I just cracked a couple more bottles tonight and it is roughly at the four week mark for bottle conditioning. The tart flavors have smoothed out and it drinks better. The carbonation is at a nice level for me, like a nice Russian Imperial Stout, and the tannins are beginning to come through in a better way.
I racked to secondary this weekend and took some gravity readings.
The White Labs English Cider yeast seems to have stabilized at 1.002
The Mead Yeast is slightly below 1.000 to 0.992 or so.
The Wyeast is sitting at 1.000 right on the money.
The taste went tart on all of them. I was initially most impressed with the WL English Cider but it now tasted somewhat watery.
The Wyeast still has the bite at then end but also went dry and tart.
The Mead yeast has the oddest flavors of the 3 that I tried. It is tart like the others and somewhat more acidic tasting.
I am planning on dropping some medium toast French oak chips in one of the secondary vessels and leave them and taste it periodically to see how that develops. I had a Sheppys vintage reserve that is oak aged and I really like the taste of this.
The plan is to let it sit in secondary for a month or two before bottling.
I am really pleased with the way the yeast settled at the bottom and cleared. This time the initially fermented juice is much more clear when I siphoned off.
I managed to to only loose about 1l per 23l so I think my yield is going to be more than expected. I also think just one batch really helped me to learn how to handle everything in general and especially when racking. I could only read so much before I actually had to try something and learn through hands-on experience.
Regarding the equipment I can highly recommend the Speidel fermenting vessels. They are built very sturdy and solid. While they are not quite as easy to clean as a bucket they do clean up well and with minimal effort.
The built in spigot at the bottom is located at just the right height to get a good amount of liquid out when racking. Had I known about them before buying the buckets I probably would have went with those instead. The only wish I have for them is a graduated marking to tell liquid volume.
I will be sure to update on how the oak chips are going and when I get ready to bottle.
Back to the drawing table!
The White Labs English Cider yeast seems to have stabilized at 1.002
The Mead Yeast is slightly below 1.000 to 0.992 or so.
The Wyeast is sitting at 1.000 right on the money.
The taste went tart on all of them. I was initially most impressed with the WL English Cider but it now tasted somewhat watery.
The Wyeast still has the bite at then end but also went dry and tart.
The Mead yeast has the oddest flavors of the 3 that I tried. It is tart like the others and somewhat more acidic tasting.
I am planning on dropping some medium toast French oak chips in one of the secondary vessels and leave them and taste it periodically to see how that develops. I had a Sheppys vintage reserve that is oak aged and I really like the taste of this.
The plan is to let it sit in secondary for a month or two before bottling.
I am really pleased with the way the yeast settled at the bottom and cleared. This time the initially fermented juice is much more clear when I siphoned off.
I managed to to only loose about 1l per 23l so I think my yield is going to be more than expected. I also think just one batch really helped me to learn how to handle everything in general and especially when racking. I could only read so much before I actually had to try something and learn through hands-on experience.
Regarding the equipment I can highly recommend the Speidel fermenting vessels. They are built very sturdy and solid. While they are not quite as easy to clean as a bucket they do clean up well and with minimal effort.
The built in spigot at the bottom is located at just the right height to get a good amount of liquid out when racking. Had I known about them before buying the buckets I probably would have went with those instead. The only wish I have for them is a graduated marking to tell liquid volume.
I will be sure to update on how the oak chips are going and when I get ready to bottle.
Back to the drawing table!
I ended up with the medium toast French Oak chips and dosed 15g/10l in one of the 12l Speidel fermenting jars. I am going to give it a taste this weekend to see how much taste the chips are imparting to the cider.
I may go ahead and bottle some of the of the other cider up too. Right now it is all sitting in secondary aging away. It is so much more clear than the first batch I made.
I may go ahead and bottle some of the of the other cider up too. Right now it is all sitting in secondary aging away. It is so much more clear than the first batch I made.
After another couple of weeks sitting in secondary, I had a chance to take a small tasting sample to see how the cider is progressing. So far, the Mead yeast seems to be developing the best taste over the long term.
The White Labs English cider and the Wyeast cider have a watery, thin taste. They will definitely benefit from some added sugar to sweeten them up a bit. I also think some bottle conditioning will benefit them over the long haul.
The sweet mead yeast has smoothed out and most of the sour, off flavors have disappeared. It has the best mouth feel and taste of the bunch right now. I also noticed that the wyeast batch has not cleared as well as the other two.
I m going to try and bottle it a couple of weeks and carb them up.
The White Labs English cider and the Wyeast cider have a watery, thin taste. They will definitely benefit from some added sugar to sweeten them up a bit. I also think some bottle conditioning will benefit them over the long haul.
The sweet mead yeast has smoothed out and most of the sour, off flavors have disappeared. It has the best mouth feel and taste of the bunch right now. I also noticed that the wyeast batch has not cleared as well as the other two.
I m going to try and bottle it a couple of weeks and carb them up.
Bottling day on Friday! I got a long weekend and some time to myself (for a change!)
It has been fun reading through the threads and some books while waiting for the day to arrive!
Will keep you all posted on developments. So far, the Mead yeast is developing best.
For the next round I am going to try some Ale yeasts from White Labs and another Wyeast and try to ferment in the cellar. Temps are pretty stable at 16°C this time of year so it may be worth a go for a long term fermentation.
It has been fun reading through the threads and some books while waiting for the day to arrive!
Will keep you all posted on developments. So far, the Mead yeast is developing best.
For the next round I am going to try some Ale yeasts from White Labs and another Wyeast and try to ferment in the cellar. Temps are pretty stable at 16°C this time of year so it may be worth a go for a long term fermentation.
Bottling day arrived!
I ended up bottling two of the three I had fermenting. The batch with the white labs English Cider yeast came out middle of the road so far. I sweetened it up with a simple syrup mixture of 1c xyltiol/1c water for 23l batch. It ended up giving it just the right amount of sweetness. I primed 0.5l bottle with 10ml of a priming sugar mixture (350 ml water with the priming sugar, I forget right now how much there was).
Bottling went much more smoothly this time, but I still learned a few more things along the way. Next time I will sweeten two or three days ahead of time and wash the and sterilize the bottles a few days in advance too.
The oak chips imparted an amazing taste! I never would have thought to do that without reading about other people trying. I used 30g of medium toast French oak / 10l of juice. It really brought out a nice vanilla flavor combined with a touch of sweetness from the xylitol. I never thought vanilla would match well with cider but I have since changed my opinion. It is definitely going to be an add-in for the next round.
I ended up not bottling the Mead Yeast batch. The taste really went south after topping off with the store bought apple juice. I sweetened up and added some oak to this batch too. The plan is to let it sit longer and then bottle in a week or two.
I am still learning a lot but this was great fun. I am looking forward to seeing how these develop over time.
I ended up bottling two of the three I had fermenting. The batch with the white labs English Cider yeast came out middle of the road so far. I sweetened it up with a simple syrup mixture of 1c xyltiol/1c water for 23l batch. It ended up giving it just the right amount of sweetness. I primed 0.5l bottle with 10ml of a priming sugar mixture (350 ml water with the priming sugar, I forget right now how much there was).
Bottling went much more smoothly this time, but I still learned a few more things along the way. Next time I will sweeten two or three days ahead of time and wash the and sterilize the bottles a few days in advance too.
The oak chips imparted an amazing taste! I never would have thought to do that without reading about other people trying. I used 30g of medium toast French oak / 10l of juice. It really brought out a nice vanilla flavor combined with a touch of sweetness from the xylitol. I never thought vanilla would match well with cider but I have since changed my opinion. It is definitely going to be an add-in for the next round.
I ended up not bottling the Mead Yeast batch. The taste really went south after topping off with the store bought apple juice. I sweetened up and added some oak to this batch too. The plan is to let it sit longer and then bottle in a week or two.
I am still learning a lot but this was great fun. I am looking forward to seeing how these develop over time.
The carbonation level is developing very well. Using 10ml/0.5l bottle of priming sugar mixture definitely made a huge difference. The carbonation level s nice and it adds to the overall drinking experience.
When looking back over my notes, I am going to change up my racking technique and definitely sweeten a couple days ahead of time.
What I have run into now is that the taste of the cider has changed again after bottle priming. I am hoping to oak flavor will come back with time after some bottle conditioning.
When looking back over my notes, I am going to change up my racking technique and definitely sweeten a couple days ahead of time.
What I have run into now is that the taste of the cider has changed again after bottle priming. I am hoping to oak flavor will come back with time after some bottle conditioning.
It has been a few weeks since bottling and the cider is slowly developing. It is still a bit dry for what I would like but I made some syrup from Elder flowers and it really is a nice addition when serving.
The oak flavor seems to have gotten lost too, which I have to figure out for the next time. I like the flavor the oak imparts but I may have to switch to C02 carbonating to get what I want.
The oak flavor seems to have gotten lost too, which I have to figure out for the next time. I like the flavor the oak imparts but I may have to switch to C02 carbonating to get what I want.
The oak flavor is slowly coming back in one batch that I tried. Still on the dry side for me but the longer it sits the more the taste is slowly improving. Phew!
I wanted to bump this up.
In the off season I purchased and read three books that I would recommend:
The New Cider Maker's Handbook: A Comprehensive Guide for Craft Producers
Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider, 3rd Edition
Craft Cider Making
I think they are great for anyone new to cider making, as they cover a range of topics.
In the off season I purchased and read three books that I would recommend:
The New Cider Maker's Handbook: A Comprehensive Guide for Craft Producers
Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider, 3rd Edition
Craft Cider Making
I think they are great for anyone new to cider making, as they cover a range of topics.
I am reviving my old thread.
Update: Time is really your friend when it comes to making cider. (For me anyway!) The first batches I made are drinking very well now and are comparable to professionally made ciders.
I had a blind tasting with some friends and inserted mine in the lineup. One of them came out 2nd and another one in the middle of the pack.
On a sadder note, the juice I supposedly had coming ended up not arriving. I had numerous delays from the farmer. When I looked into it further I found out the producers ended up in some kind of internal fight, which brought production to a halt. Long story short, I didn't get any juice. I didn't have the energy or time to get anything else going so I had to sit this round out. Bah. Onward and upward.
Update: Time is really your friend when it comes to making cider. (For me anyway!) The first batches I made are drinking very well now and are comparable to professionally made ciders.
I had a blind tasting with some friends and inserted mine in the lineup. One of them came out 2nd and another one in the middle of the pack.
On a sadder note, the juice I supposedly had coming ended up not arriving. I had numerous delays from the farmer. When I looked into it further I found out the producers ended up in some kind of internal fight, which brought production to a halt. Long story short, I didn't get any juice. I didn't have the energy or time to get anything else going so I had to sit this round out. Bah. Onward and upward.
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