New to brewing and just started kegging.

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Jebediah

Jebediah

Active Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
31
Reaction score
8
G;day all, I have been only brewing for 2 months now and started to keg a week ago after bottling for two months. I've made a batch of wheat beer and transferred it to a keg and started to carbonate it at 30 PSI for 24 hrs and then on 17 PSI for serving.
It has been in the keg for a week now and been tasting it every couple of days. I have noticed that some beers that I have poured has a strong flavour of banana taste (not sour) but, when I get towards the end of the glass it has a slight sour and banana taste.
Other glasses that i poured has no taste of banana at all but, slightly sour.

Not sure what i have done wrong here, if it was brewing, fermentation or or kegging.

Any ideas or tips would be mostly appreciated.

Cheers, Jebediah.
 
well someone else said they hate to see people ignored...

i'll start off with saying, i'm not a 'good' brewer, by any means...but banana is esters, which would leave me to believe ferment temp may be high, from what i've read anyway....sour would be a infection....if it only happens after it's been kegged a while? someone else can help more.....


(also esters are formed in an equilibrium reaction, with acid and water, carboxylic, and alcohol...and what not, just food for thought, normaly really slow at low temp...but if the yeast eat the nitrogen from amino acids? then you end up with a carboxylic acid)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoamyl_acetate
sorry for being non-coherent, but that would a product of leucine being digested by yeast, and then esterified by acetic acid.....


AND Welcome, don't worry there's people that will actualy help you here, learn to recognize them!! :D :mug:


edit: just trying to say if your taster is good enough, if it starts bannana then gets sour, maybe the equilibrum between the alcohol, and acetic acid get more in the water...and you have an acetobacter problem....
 
bracconiere said:
well someone else said they hate to see people ignored...

i'll start off with saying, i'm not a 'good' brewer, by any means...but banana is esters, which would leave me to believe ferment temp may be high, from what i've read anyway....sour would be a infection....if it only happens after it's been kegged a while? someone else can help more.....


(also esters are formed in an equilibrium reaction, with acid and water, carboxylic, and alcohol...and what not, just food for thought, normaly really slow at low temp...but if the yeast eat the nitrogen from amino acids? then you end up with a carboxylic acid)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoamyl_acetate
sorry for being non-coherent, but that would a product of leucine being digested by yeast, and then esterified by acetic acid.....


AND Welcome, don't worry there's people that will actualy help you here, learn to recognize them!! :D :mug:


edit: just trying to say if your taster is good enough, if it starts bannana then gets sour, maybe the equilibrum between the alcohol, and acetic acid get more in the water...and you have an acetobacter problem....
Click to expand...
I want to say, thanks for your reply and trying to help me out here.
I left my ferment temp at (22 degrees) 71.6 fahrenheit for 14 days (is that to high)? then, transfer it to the keg. Once I put the ferment temp on (18 degrees) 64.4 fahrenheit and the yeast just died after a couple of day. So, thats why I bumped it up to 71.6 fahrenheit so the yeast last longer.
Then I let the keg sit in room temp for a week then carbonated it which, i read on here a couple of weeks back, to carbonate it at 30 PSI for 24 to 48 hrs then on 15-20 because its a wheat beer.
I had a taste before transferring it to the keg, and had no sour taste to it but, had a strong flavour to it.
When I made this batch a couple of weeks back it looked promising, the OG was 1.055 and the FG was 1.014 (5.3%).
I made up a yeast starter and then I added nutrient wyeast and it was really activated before pouring it into the fermenter.
It lasted for 7 days at 71.6 Fahrenheit.
I transferred the brew into the fermenter and after an hr it started bubbling.
Now, it has sour taste, very disappointing.I will try to lower the temp to 64.4 fahrenheit and see that works out for me.

Thanks again for your reply, bracconiere.

Cheer, :mug:
 
It was nice of Brac to post and I know he means well but when he gets a ramblin it might be because he’s had a few and looses his train of thought......😁 and sometimes when he rambles he’s right, sometimes there is chemistry that only the yeast can control.

Since your beer is rather “green” it may take a couple of weeks for it to settle and meld and become the final product that it wants to be. But since it’s a sour taste there may be something else going on, maybe a wild yeast or a bacteria that got in there and took hold before the beer yeast could, I don’t think your fermentation temp had anything to do with that. I would let this ride another week or so and see how the flavor changes and see if the sour gets worse, if it gets worse then something got in there.
 
No worries, I'll let it sit for another week or so then try it again.

Cheers, Transamguy77 :mug:
 
then it's probably not the o-rings, just thought i'd check.....(not sure if this is relevant, someone else was complaing their wheat beer didn't taste like banana...lol, wife didn't like it with out the banana;))
 
Thanks for the thought about the O-rings. I like the banana taste in the wheat beer too, but it has the slight taste of sour to it.
Anyway, i'll leave it for a week or two and see if it clears up.
Thanks for your help mate. Bracconiere

Cheers, :mug:
 
Last edited:
Are you saying that some beers taste more of bananas than others from the same keg and tap?
Do they all taste slightly sour toward the end of the glass? Or only the banana ones?
Are the banana or sour ones the first pours of the day or pours from later on?
 
Yes, I drink half of the glass which has a strong flavour of banana then when it comes to the last half of the glass it goes slightly sour.
It usually the second glass the banana flavour wears off then the sour takes over.
 
The first few oz of the first glass have been sitting in the beer line and taps/shanks for some time. Are those new lines? Vinyl? What is the inside diameter, 3/16"?

17 psi is pretty high for serving, at what temp is that? How long are your beer lines?
 
Beer has been on tap for a week now, yes, new lines new everything.
Yes, 3/16
it is to high for wheat beer at 15-20 PSI? What is the best for wheat beer?
I would say the beer lines are about a meter and a half
 
Jebediah said:
I like the banana taste in the wheat beer too,
Click to expand...


i hate to sound stupid, but what's the ph of your finished beer? acidic conditions promote ester foration (i.e. banana), and basic break down esters.....i think most beers should be about 4.2......i'm just guessing here...esters are easily formed and broken....and banana if broken with a base and heat would be vinegar.....a lot of people have to acidify their mashes....and like a youtube video i just watched, this is going off on a "tangent"....lol


maybe a descriptor of what kind of sour it is? is it sour like lemon juice, or kosher pickles, or vinegar? (citric acid, lactic acid, acetic acid)
 
Don't you get a lot of foam that way?
Your keg/serving pressure is quite high compared to your line length.

Typically we use 1 foot per 1 psi of pressure in 3/16" lines. That's at 38-40F IIRC.
 
bracconiere said:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jtxs.12371
not really sure if it's relevant at this point.....

didn't read it but esterases in saliva might be something to look into....(but honestly i hope the kegs dry, and you're working on the next by then! :mug:)
Click to expand...
Wow, that's something! Of course it's relevant. It could just be a personal experience, not everyone's. Or what that person has been eating/drinking previously.

Have you had any other tasters around? If so what do they say?
 
It has a bit of foam.
Thats what i read online, wheat beer needs more PSI than other beers.
What is the best PSI for serving wheat beer?
My temp is 5 degrees (41 Fahrenheit)
 
bracconiere said:
i hate to sound stupid, but what's the ph of your finished beer? acidic conditions promote ester foration (i.e. banana), and basic break down esters.....i think most beers should be about 4.2......i'm just guessing here...esters are easily formed and broken....and banana if broken with a base and heat would be vinegar.....a lot of people have to acidify their mashes....and like a youtube video i just watched, this is going off on a "tangent"....lol


maybe a descriptor of what kind of sour it is? is it sour like lemon juice, or kosher pickles, or vinegar? (citric acid, lactic acid, acetic acid)
Click to expand...
I would say a vinegar taste.
 
Jebediah said:
Thats what i read online, wheat beer needs more PSI than other beers.
Click to expand...
Yes, but to keep the carbonation inside the beer you need longer or thinner lines that give more resistance during pouring. That prevents foaming at the faucet. Foaming is carbonation coming out of solution, the beer, so it won't be part of the sensation anymore when you drink it.

For example, EVA barrier lines are 4mm ID, you only need like 6' to serve beer at 12 psi at 38-40F.
Here's Mike Soltys' renowned line length calculator:
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/
 
IslandLizard said:
Yes, but to keep the carbonation inside the beer you need longer or thinner lines that give more resistance during pouring. That prevents foaming at the faucet. Foaming is carbonation coming out of solution, the beer, so it won't be part of the sensation anymore when you drink it.

For example, EVA barrier lines are 4mm ID, you only need like 6' to serve beer at 12 psi at 38-40F.
Here's Mike Soltys' renowned line length calculator:
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, i'll look into it.
I'll turn the PSI to 12 and see how it goes.
Is that what causes the beer to become sour? Sorry, for the stupid question.
 
Jebediah said:
I'll turn the PSI to 12 and see how it goes.
Is that what causes the beer to become sour?
Click to expand...
First take the gas of the keg, while removing the extra pressure. It will take a couple days of pulling the PRV repeatedly to release the level of carbonation in the beer. Each time you pull the PRV, CO2 has to come out of solution, where it settles in the headspace until another equilibrium has been reached. That stays there until you pull the PRV again, etc.
Once it has settled to 12 psi, set the regulator to 12 psi, reconnect the gas and you're all set. 6' of 3/16" at 12 psi is still a bit short though...

But no, that should not cause an overly sour taste. Although carbonation (Carbonic acid, even CO2) has a slight sour taste, it more prickles the smell organs in your nose. The evervescence helps in the overall sensation and heightening of your perception of smell.
 
IslandLizard said:
First take the gas of the keg, while removing the extra pressure. It will take a couple days of pulling the PRV repeatedly to release the level of carbonation in the beer. Each time you pull the PRV, CO2 has to come out of solution, where it settles in the headspace until another equilibrium has been reached. That stays there until you pull the PRV again, etc.
Once it has settled to 12 psi, set the regulator to 12 psi, reconnect the gas and you're all set. 6' of 3/16" at 12 psi is still a bit short though...

But no, that should not cause an overly sour taste. Although carbonation (Carbonic acid, even CO2) has a slight sour taste, it more prickles the smell organs in your nose. The evervescence helps in the overall sensation and heightening of your perception of smell.
Click to expand...
I'll get this a try. Thanks again mate for all your help.
Cheers, :mug:
 
I just read
"A typical kegerators with draft towers usually have about 1.5 feet (in Meter- 0.4572) distance from the top of the keg to the faucet tap, so with a flow rate of 10 seconds per pint using a 3/16" (5mm) inner diameter beer line you would need around 8 feet (In Meter- 2.4384) of beer line if you were dispensing a keg served with 10 PSI of pressure. This would give you a CO2 saturation volume of around 2.3 at 40 F."

My question is, to get that perfect pour every time, I should buy a 3/16 diameter of tubing (5mm) and around 8 feet (2.4384m) of beer line for keg served at 10 PSI of pressure.
Can I use this same beer line for keg served beer at any PSI like 12 etc? or is it only fit to 10 PSI. (Sorry for the stupid questions still very new to it all).

Cheer, :mug:
 
Jebediah said:
My question is, to get that perfect pour every time, I should buy a 3/16 diameter of tubing (5mm) and around 8 feet (2.4384m) of beer line for keg served at 10 PSI of pressure.
Can I use this same beer line for keg served beer at any PSI like 12 etc? or is it only fit to 10 PSI. (Sorry for the stupid questions still very new to it all).
Click to expand...
Although you could have a longer line to accommodate higher serving pressures (and carbonation levels), you try to average it out for your average use. Many people install 12' lines of 3/16" for 12 psi at 36-40F and call it a day. Better a little longer than too short. Foaming is a pain.
If you have MFL fittings or the EVA tubing with push-fit connectors, swapping out a line for a different length only takes a few minutes.

There are also flow control faucets, to trim your flow rate and thus foaming.

To have different serving pressures at the same time, you need a regulator for each pressure setting. If you need more than 2, getting a (small) bank of secondary regulators is a good option.
 
I have only the lines that came with the kegerator which is 1.5 feet and 8mm thick.
That is why i was thinking of buying the 3/16 diameter and 8 feet of beer line to have more length on what i have and reduce the foam when pouring.
 
Jebediah said:
I have only the lines that came with the kegerator which is 1.5 feet and 8mm thick.
That is why i was thinking of buying the 3/16 diameter and 8 feet of beer line to have more length on what i have and reduce the foam when pouring.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all kegerators come with short lines. Sure you can replace them with longer ones.
Like these: 843532 - Beverage Tubing - 3/16'' - per ft.
Make sure to get the right size clamps too.

But why not replace them with something much better such as the EVA barrier line?
Vinyl is not flavor neutral, and is O2 permeable, oxidizing your beer slowly. Even on the gas side.
 
Thanks for your help mate, I'll will buy the EVA barrier line as your suggested.
Yes, I brought myself the MFL fittings and the push-fit connectors came with the kegerator.
I should buy some extra EVA barrier line for the C02 line too?

Hope you dont mind me asking you all theses questions mate.

Thanks again. :mug:
 
Jebediah said:
Thanks for your help mate, I'll will buy the EVA barrier line as your suggested.
Yes, I brought myself the MFL fittings and the push-fit connectors came with the kegerator.
I should buy some extra EVA barrier line for the C02 line too?

Hope you dont mind me asking you all theses questions mate.

Thanks again. :mug:
Click to expand...
No problem.
Yes, also use EVA for the gas lines, O2 can enter through regular vinyl gas lines.
Make sure to get the correct adapters too for each connection point.
 
Jebediah said:
No worries, Thanks again.

Cheers, :mug:
Click to expand...
Another detail...
Have you looked at the connection of the line to the shanks inside the tower? The shanks usually have an integrated 90° tailpiece with a barb on the end. AFAIK, there's no adapter available for that connection., so the line need to go over the barb directly. Applying a little heat should help getting the EVA tubing over those barbs. Don't forget to put a clamp over it.

For line lengths I'd err toward keeping them a bit longer. You can always snip a foot off if they turn out too slow. Or increase pressure a little.
 
Jebediah said:
How long should be the C02 line? ATM, my lines are 1,390mm 4.56 foot when buying the EVA barrier?
I was looking at Nukatap SS apparently they reduce the foam from the first pour etc. What do you think?
NUKATAP SS Tap Only (Stainless Steel) - Forward Sealing Tap
Click to expand...
For CO2 line length is basically immaterial (aside from increased CO2 ingress in vinyl lines). Use a comfortable length.
It's easier to curl an extra meter than it being 1 cm short. ;)

In some kegerators it's really difficult to attach QDs inside the cabinet. Or check for leaks!
So attach QDs outside the kegerator, check for leaks, etc. Then shove the keg inside, curling the extra slack in the hoses out of the way. Try it dry, before cutting. I'd say around 1-1.5 meter.
EVA line is very flexible, so that's a bonus.

I don't know those taps, never seen them here. They look fine, and price seems decent. They're out of stock though...
Do they use somewhat thinner material than other taps to reduce "thermal mass, thus reducing 1st pour foaming?
I see the shuttle is plastic, not sure if that's a plus or a minus column item... It cuts down on (thermal) mass, though.

Maybe ask on our sister site, the Australian Homebrewer Forum?
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/
Our Perlicks are heavy! My older model 525SS don't even have a shuttle at all, just the lever with a ball at the end that seals against a rubber o-ring. They're pretty hollow, which means, filled with beer. I get a little foaming in the first 2-3 oz, then it's all fine.
 
No worries mate, then I'll be 2x 8 foot of EVA barrier for the beer lines and 2x 1.5m for the C02 lines.
I'll look into the Nukatap SS (you can get them in black too) and what they think of them in the Aussie Home Brewer.

sorry mate but, I dont understand what you mean with QDs? The EVA lines?
 

Similar threads

M
Infection after 2weeks in bottles?
2
Replies
67
Views
2K
IslandLizard
IslandLizard
Gadjobrinus
5 lb down in the red after overnight?
Replies
5
Views
271
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
brew_mama
Out of ideas - flat beer from keg
Replies
3
Views
699
day_trippr
day_trippr
J
Keg foam question
Replies
11
Views
560
Joewalla88
J
x3la
Kegging/Carbonation advice
Replies
16
Views
1K
x3la
x3la

Latest posts

Back
Top